mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

Mac Zealots Strike Again!

Widgets & Gadgets, Objects, oh my...

Mac Zealots Strike Again! Yesterday Microsoft announced Microsoft Gadgets. This came as a bit of an eye-opener to those of us who have been working with DesktopX for years. An eye-opener, but not necessarily a surprise... Way back with active desktop Microsoft played with this type of thing, and we knew that they had not stopped. XAML and Avalon are coming in Vista and have been in the works for years and it has been quite evident that desktop content, similar to what DesktopX can create was possible with these technologies. I started using DesktopX in 1999 with version .01 alpha and got quite addicted. I started making Zoomers, which are more or less "Suppr Icons", but before long I was making "Plug-In" Objects, which are more or less what we now know as widgets. I started with a simple Drive Monitor, then moved on to fancier things. My favorite was my media player object which I still use regularly five years later.
One of my favorite old Zoomers.	An early Drive Monitor for two drives.	A CPU and Memory monitor.	My original FauxS-X Media player.
These are from 2000. Two Friking Thousand!!!!. Now it was a bit annoying when, in 2003, Konfabulator came out for the Mac and everyone was like "this is the coolest thing ever" and "its a pity nothing like this exist for Windows". I remember the first time I saw it I was watching the Screen Savers about a year after DesktopX had been featured on the show, when, Konfabulators best friend, Leo LaPort showed Konfabulator off. The first thought I had was, "cool DesktopX for Mac". Well the thing that sucked was somehow Konfabulator became an over-hyped monster. I have to admit that I was not to concerned; Konfab was on the Mac, and it had no development environment at all so it never lured me over. Then it was released for Windows, and they had the gall to say "We wanted to bring it to Widows because nothing like it was available". This is 3 or 4 years since I made my first "Object" for DesktopX. Anyway, I was annoyed. But Konfab did do some things that I had to admire. They were smart enough to do high quality default objects and make sure they stayed on the top of their library so first impressions stayed good. So annoying. But they were good, good developers making a pretty solid competitor, if only they would stop saying that they invented the concept. I have to admit I chuckled a bit when Apple essentially stole Konfabulator about a year later and made Dashboard widgets. Which, as I pointed out in my last rant against Apple, is a piss poor implementation of Konfabulator. If you own a Mac, Konfabulator is still the best widget program. For the first time I got to see Konfabulator people screaming about how they were ripped off - which they were. Anyone who sees Dashboard cant deny that its style is so "inspired" by Konfabs default styles. Now the 900 pound gorilla comes onto the scene; Microsoft, with Microsoft "gadgets", putting aside that Windows will have had "widgets" and "objects" for six years by the time that Vista ships. I am not too mad about it. I think that in the long run Windows gadgets will be good for customization, and especially for Stardock. We will be able to do high quality gadgets quicker and better since we have been doing it for years. Much like "Luna" brought attention WindowBlinds and skinning, I think that Windows Gadgets will make more people aware of gadgets, widgets, objects, or what ever they are called this week. And I am sure that Stardock will be able to use its knowledge to capitalize on it. I think DesktopX will find new avenues that would not have been possible without Vista. Now the thing that is really chapping my hide, is this: Mac zealots are flaming Microsoft for ripping off Dashboard! Dashboard, which is a total rip of Konfabulator, which is at the very least a Mac version of DesktopX. Now as a big DesktopX fan I'm not going to the personal blog of the Windows Gadgets project developers and flaming them that they ripped of DesktopX. Yet just hours after the announcement of Microsoft Gadgets Mac zealots were on those blogs screaming, sometimes quite rudely, that MS had copied Dashboard. These poor developers, who have been working on this project since 2002, are now being accused of stealing their ideas. The funny thing is this; I bought my first Mac about the time that Apple released Jaguar 10.2, at the same time the first Longhorn screenshots were showing up. About that same time we saw the first "Longhorn Bar", which was more or less the what is now Microsoft Gadgets. You can even see the simple analog clocks and the obligatory "slideshow" widget. Keep in mind that this was OS 10.2, and widgets did not come out until 10.4. Let's remember that Longhorn/Vista is a 5 or 6 year project and many of its tools and features have been in the works for years. Perhaps Apple's great skill is that in their ability to put out point releases every 18 months they can implement new ideas faster - even those that have been "inspired" by other developers. Yes, even by Microsoft. So to sum up: Mac zealots, knock it off. I'm sick to death of you claiming everything good comes from the Mac. I have a Mac. I paid for it, I use it, but after reading what I read yesterday, I doubt I will ever buy another. And I beg you Steve Jobs, stop leading your fanatics by example. Ok, I'm done with my rant. Let the flaming begin!

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how very true

desktopX is far superior to konfab and other rivals, now no one can make widgets unless he knows scripting and all with other programs , but desktopX gives the common user a dynamic UI to build his own widgets, gadgets and objects to his liking and needs,and powerful scripting for advanced users, and whats more, we have the best creative and sharing community on the scene, our library is biigger and more versatile than they can ever fancy

oh and if mac hadn't those screaming kids backing every so-called innovative move by mac, who on earth would know they are microsoft rivals

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Good read, not too unexpected with the happenings, but personally I'm happy to see that sidebar again that I had wanted so much when I saw early longhorn shots.

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As you can see here, they learn to be snobs from the best.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

I am sure we all saw this coming.
I just want to pose a question... Does anyone at Stardock feel as if they are a little to blame? Desktop X was never really marketed in a major way.
Even though DX was around first, I am sure alot of people still have no clue it exists.
Not to flame, just wondering.

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Does anyone at Stardock feel as if they are a little to blame?

I think it's a little unfair to expect Stardock to have anywhere near the marketing clout of Apple (especially in 1999) or Microsoft.

Bear in mind that most times Brad stood up for anything Stardock in userland he ended up with a right toasting!

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1757

It wouldn't matter, anyway....the whole concept of 'Mac Zealot' is that they live in their own little world where no-one else exists....and certainly not any alternate OS system.

On THEIR side of the fence, Jobs is God.

On ours...

Clapton is God....

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

I think it's a little unfair to expect Stardock to have anywhere near the marketing clout of Apple (especially in 1999) or Microsoft.

Kinda like whoever wins the war gets to write the history.

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thomassen

Join Date 01/2003

+10

Kinda like whoever wins the war gets to write the history.

That's how it works, isn't it..?

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On ours...

Clapton is God

Here, here!

(MD puts his pop-psych hat on)

Perhaps they wax so strident and vehement because of their deep-seated (yet unacknowledged) fear that the MS juggernaut will soon overwhelm there pathetic little asses. (Mommy!)

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^ lol.. daddy! mommy dosent give a damn

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I HATE APPLE!!!! DIE APPLE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

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Okay, I have to stop reading the comments at MicrosoftGadgets.com. It's just too depressing...

(MD walks off, shaking his head, wondering about the fate of the human race...)

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Gee apple fanboys have no clue who Xerox is? Do they? lol DIE!

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Man, DesktopX looks to be right on track....

New users can make cool objects easily with a reasonably intuitive interface...

Advanced users can really let their imagination fly....

And assuming the support platform for MicrosoftGadgets fully supports DesktopX made gadgets, the DesktopX Pro user can have loads of fun.....

I see no need for the other widget programs with these developments..........just need to work on my graphics adn DesktopX skills, and I am good to go........WooHoo!!

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Now if I could just spell "and" instead of "adn" .......

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1757

You spelled 'adn' quite well, I thought.... Spell checker

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1046

I agree with Corky. This could be start of some really great things.

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Mac zealots, knock it off. I'm sick to death of you claiming everything good comes from the Mac

Perhaps you could punish them by mutilating them and turn them into Unix?

Thank you, that's my pun for the evening and goodnight.

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HG_Eliminator

Join Date 07/2002

+354

Kinda like whoever wins the war gets to write the history.

this used to be true, back when the masses couldnt read and news traveled by pigeon..

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Yes, the key for me is that DesktopX Pro is evolved to allow develop gadgets for Vista if possible. In terms of selling them commercially DX will also have the hook that gadgets work on XP, but this will be a diminishing argument over time. As so many have said, this is a time of opportunity for DesktopX and hopefully we will see more time being invested in it in the coming year leading to the launch of Vista so we can all take advantage of the marketing hype surrounding gadgets.

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I HATE APPLE!!!! DIE APPLE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that rather negative? Without Apple, would MS feel the need to raise the bar, to be innovative or competitive? It seems to me that competition from Apple is a good thing for PC users, and even if it's felt Mac zealots are somewhat ridiculous in their claims that all invention emanates from Apple, we all have something to be grateful for, even if we don't use or will never use a Mac. Neither company wants to be seen as lagging behind the other, so end users benifit from their innovation and striving to be one step ahead.

No, I'm not a Mac user or an Apple employee. In fact, I'm using XP Professional at present, and most certainly will upgrade to Vista when the final product is released, but at the same time wouldn't rule out installing Mac OS X when it's feasible to do so on my Intel based system along side my Windows OS.....because I like to keep an open mind and would find it an enlightening experience.

Actually, I feel sorry for zealots...their tunnel vision and one mindedness disallows thought outside the restrictive square they've become encased in, and sadly there are zealots on both sides of the fence here. Sure, there are some who believe the Mac is 'almighty' and go to extaordinary lengths to sing its praises, which obviously annoys some, but the OS cannot be all bad and Apple must continue, like them or not

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mormegil

Join Date 03/2001

+74

Good point Starkers, it is true, I have no problem with Mac's in general. Its there more fanatical users that piss me off.

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I have no problem with Mac's in general. Its there more fanatical users that piss me off.

I fully understand that sentiment....when Apple/Mac fanaticism precludes the truth for blatant fabrication, but there are zealots on both sides of the fence who contribute to the ongoing OS wars, and I'm sure there are ordinary Mac users who take exception to comments like: 'I hate Mac and anyone who uses it.' If a designer or software developer has a genuine gripe against Apple or MS, that's all well and good, but average users? Especially when they have little or no experience with the alternative! It seems so pointless when such 'passion' could be better used to create or, better still, resolve issues, rather than to denigrate. The bottom line is that all this ill-directed, negative energy hurts neither Apple or MS in the end.

Personally, I would rather have a discussion with a Mac user than fire off a barrage of insults.....I might actually learn something

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How about giving credit where credit is due.

They were inspired by DesktopX

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How about giving credit where credit is due.

In a perfect world that's a marvellous concept....but sadly, in the real world, it's rather difficult for those who attribute things to themselves and take the glory for the work, creativity and innovation of others.

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