Dancing With The Devil: My Chat With The ACLU!

http://brutus1964.blogspot.com
from JoeUser Forums
I called the Pennsylvania chapter of the ACLU on Saturday and left a message. To their credit a representative called back this afternoon. The purpose of my contact with them was to discuss the proposed Flight 93 memorial and the Islamic symbolism that it features.

ACLU: “Thank you for contacting the Pennsylvania American Civil Liberties Union, this is Pam, what is the nature of your complaint”

Ken: “I was calling about the proposed Flight 93 Memorial in Pennsylvania, and the Islamic symbolism they are using for it”.

Pam: “I haven’t heard about this, what kind of Islamic symbolism are they using?”

Ken: “for one thing the main part of the memorial is a huge Red Crescent, and they are calling it the Crescent of Embrace”.

Pam: “So how is that an Islamic symbol?”

Ken: “A red crescent to a Muslim is like a cross to a Christian”

Pam: “Is it just some kind of artistic expression in the shape of a crescent, or are they intending to promote Islam”

Ken: “Well the designers are denying it has anything to do with Islam but the symbolism is still there and I think it is completely inappropriate to have anything symbolizing Islam in a memorial to the Hero’s of flight 93.

Pam: “Well if the designers do not have the intent on promoting a religion then I don’t see the problem.”

Ken: “If the Memorial was shaped like a cross would you have a problem with that?”

Pam: “If it was intended as a cross and to promote a particular religion then we would be very troubled with that, but if it only resembled a cross and that was not the intent of it then we would not have a problem with that either.” (Yea right!)

Ken: “So what you are saying is that even though many people may view the crescent as a bow to Islam you wouldn’t have a problem with it unless the designers specifically intended it to be a religious symbol?”

Pam: “Yes, in fact if the crescent is meant to promote understanding and multiculturalism then I would think it is quite appropriate.

The fact that they call it the “Crescent of Embrace” means that the memorial is intending to embrace other cultures”.

Ken: “Yes but it could also mean to embrace Islam.”

Pam: “I don’t see it that way. We will certainly look into it but it doesn’t sound like something the ACLU would get involved in.

Ken: Yes please look into it. There is plenty of resources on the Internet, and you can go directly to the Flight 94 Memorial website and check it out for yourself.

Pam: I will do that; if there is anything that we feel is actionable I will contact you ok.

Ken: “Please do”.

Pam: “Thank you for calling the American Civil Liberties Union."
"
politics
21,893 views 39 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ken: “If the Memorial was shaped like a cross would you have a problem with that?”


Of course they would.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Apparently yelling obsenities at a wedding party on private property is ok, a cross 50 feet under the surface of the pacific is objectional, but a blatant bow to Islam is just hunky dorey?

I've been to the ACLU website and I'll admit that much of the seperation of church and state hysteria in our schools and other public places is not backed by them (even though they are often cited as the reason for it), but if they have no objection to symbolism, slogans and even positioning of the "memorial" with such outward deference to Islam, then apparently all they do object to is those of Christianity.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
have yall even looked at the memorial drawing that was selected.

it has nothing at all to do with islam and everything to do with topology.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
If it were crescent shaped merely to fit the topography of the landscape you might have a point. However, the title of the structure is "Crescent of Embrace", so I get the feeling that even if it were placed on flat ground, it would still be crescent shaped. The words "Crescent" and "Embrace" does look pretty suspiciously like "Embrace Islam"... and the fact it faces Mecca (as a good Islamist Jetliner Hijacker would do when praying) all make it look a whole lot like a bow to those who attacked the U.S. instead of those who bravely fought back.

It very well could be just cooincidince, that's fine, but even if it is completely innocent, the fact remains, it is not an appropriate design.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Ken: “If the Memorial was shaped like a cross would you have a problem with that?”


Of course they would.

As shown in their snit fit over the LA Shield.......

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

have yall even looked at the memorial drawing that was selected.

it has nothing at all to do with islam and everything to do with topology.

A cross has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with the way romans executed their criminals.

Same Difference.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
the title of the project takes its name from a semicircular grouping of 40 strands of sugar and red maples which form the edge of a natural bowl. inside the bowl is a monument. there's also a tower.

yall have lost your minds

Link
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
A cross has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with the way romans executed their criminals.
Same Difference.


yeah and a pentagon has nothing to do with pythagoras but a pentangle has nothing to do with department of defense.

same difference.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
the fact it faces Mecca (as a good Islamist Jetliner Hijacker would do when praying)


only if they move mecca. otherwise the semicircle of trees (which forms the rear border) is more likely facing little rock.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
ok, Kingbee, if you are murdered we will see that your headstone is engraved with the image of your killer... of course, it will only be a cooincidence of the grain of the stone. lol
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Like I said, whether it is by design or merely a set of coincidences, it is in very poor taste.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thank you, Kingbee. I've had conversations with NPS officials, and I really now do agree. Some people here have lost their minds. They've lost touch with reality. They are totally zonkers. They make it up as they go along. The only thing offensive about the designs are you all who attribute Islam to it.

However, having said that, the fact that you all are so outraged makes some think that the name may be unfortunate. But, the design remains the same. As a matter of fact, it was the families, the rescue workers, etc. who chose the design. For you all to spit on it now is insulting, to say the least. You disrespect them all. Blechhhhhhhhhhh.................. But, I have to keep reminding myself....... this is, after all, joeuser.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
If it were "accidentally" in the sign of a cross, Dabe and Kingbee, you would both be leading the charge against it.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Like I said, whether it is by design or merely a set of coincidences, it is in very poor taste.


at least take a look at the illustration to which i provided a link. i mean i can see the jfk eternal flame memorial is a direct tribute to the hammer & sickle when the wind blows the right way.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
if it were actually the sign of a crescent i would as well. is every concert bowl in the country a crescent too?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
As a matter of fact, it was the families, the rescue workers, etc. who chose the design


it must be the fluoride those ay-rabs been sneakin into their water. or maybe its the subliminal messages in that disney movie.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

yeah and a pentagon has nothing to do with pythagoras but a pentangle has nothing to do with department of defense.

Last I checked the pentagon was not a religious symbol in anyone's mind.  You have completely lost it on this one.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ken: “for one thing the main part of the memorial is a huge Red Crescent, and they are calling it the Crescent of Embrace


yeah the main part of the back border that runs along a natural bowl...forgetting the slab with the names and the tower.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

If it were "accidentally" in the sign of a cross, Dabe and Kingbee, you would both be leading the charge against it.

I am surprised that they and the ACLU are not trying to ban planes, since they are in the form of a cross too.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
ok, Kingbee, if you are murdered we will see that your headstone is engraved with the image of your killer...


i'd suggest christina applegate cuz that's kinda whom i'm hopin will do the trick
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Last I checked the pentagon was not a religious symbol in anyone's mind


ahh but the pentangle was (is). and steath bombers have that triangular holy trinity shape.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
i'd suggest christina applegate cuz that's kinda whom i'm hopin will do the trick


ROFL!! Funny!
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
the title of the project takes its name from a semicircular grouping of 40 strands of sugar and red maples which form the edge of a natural bowl. inside the bowl is a monument. there's also a tower.

yall have lost your minds


Really? The I guess a "bunch" of Pennsylvanians have lost theirs too. Maybe you should go read this thread. Link
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
The I guess a "bunch" of Pennsylvanians have lost theirs too


i'm sure it has something to do with their proximity to you.

why don't you go look at the approved plans rather than some nutcase's interpretation of them.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
I guess a "bunch" of Pennsylvanians have lost theirs too


i'm sure it has something to do with their proximity to you.

why don't you go look at the approved plans rather than some nut case's interpretation of them.


I would guess that you're having reading problems again. The link I posted has NOTHING to do with the design of the memorial but rather it's spacial orientation.