If she comes back I will personally apologize for being overly harsh. You can do it on her thread.... Link

Actually, no I can't. Either she has locked her thread or black listed me. I can understand it if she has done either. But it's kind of hard to apologize if she has.

But I'll guarantee that it's not the same as your husbands mind set. And the wives you're speaking of....are more than likely married to someone that will not stay in. I

It may not be EXACTLY the same, but it's damn close, and in some aspects I have even more of a military bearing than he does....and he's staying in until he can retire (got 6 years left to do, then we're out).

We didn't get to where we're at career-wise by my not having any kind of military bearing. I worked just as hard as he did for some of his ranks and achievements.

I feel the need to step in here and point out something to you RW (and to some extent, drmiller) that you will probably not like in the least.

You are acting like Col. Gene and Dabe here (well... except you keep the language clean).

You are so convinced of the correctness of your position, you find it so overpoweringly obvious that you simply can not believe others don't see it as you do. This is the exact tact those two take on their arguments. They yell and scream about how it's so obvious Bush & Co. are evil evil people etc... They don't provide proof, they tell you to look it up for yourself. They claim that what they say is just an overarching truth and you have to be intentionally blind to miss it.

If you make a claim, no matter how obvious it may seem to you, if someone calls you on it then the burden of proof rests with YOU. If I say "All of Group X does Y" and someone says prove it, I have to come up with actual proof to show that to be true. Proof, by the way, does not equal stories your friends told you. That's the sort of proof offered by extreme liberals to say the election was rigged (i.e. the rumor that republicans told black voters that the election was on a different day in some cities... nothing but anecdotal evidence for that one... no real proof)

You are making sweeping claims based on your own personal experiences. If I were to do the same I'd say how minorities are actually the hardest working people in this nation, and whites are just a bunch of ignorant hicks who want to complain about how their jobs and money are being stolen away by them. That has been my overwhelming experience having lived in a semi-rural area attached to a university, then here in Hartford. Who is right? Is my experience the one that can be extrapolated to ALL blacks or minorites? Is yours? Nope, neither are correct because you can not generalize like that. You can't even say a majority unless you have clear numbers (pure data, since you distrust statistics so much when they disagree with you).

In this thread, you have used every single tactic that you assault the far left for regularly. You make claims and refuse to provide proof. You provide anecdotal and second-hand evidence as proof when pressed further. Instead of arguing the issue on its merits, you insult, belittle and discard those who disagree with you out of hand when they try their best to remain civil and on-point. The only thing you haven't done is resorted to out-and-out namecalling or swearing...

Remember this thread next time you want to go after the left for their poor tactics, for their lack of proof and civility. Remember that you hold more in common with them than you'd like to admit.

I feel the need to step in here and point out something to you RW (and to some extent, drmiller) that you will probably not like in the least. You are acting like Col. Gene and Dabe here (well... except you keep the language clean). You are so convinced of the correctness of your position, you find it so overpoweringly obvious that you simply can not believe others don't see it as you do. This is the exact tact those two take on their arguments. They yell and scream about how it's so obvious Bush & Co. are evil evil people etc... They don't provide proof, they tell you to look it up for yourself. They claim that what they say is just an overarching truth and you have to be intentionally blind to miss it. If you make a claim, no matter how obvious it may seem to you, if someone calls you on it then the burden of proof rests with YOU. If I say "All of Group X does Y" and someone says prove it, I have to come up with actual proof to show that to be true. Proof, by the way, does not equal stories your friends told you. That's the sort of proof offered by extreme liberals to say the election was rigged (i.e. the rumor that republicans told black voters that the election was on a different day in some cities... nothing but anecdotal evidence for that one... no real proof) You are making sweeping claims based on your own personal experiences. If I were to do the same I'd say how minorities are actually the hardest working people in this nation, and whites are just a bunch of ignorant hicks who want to complain about how their jobs and money are being stolen away by them. That has been my overwhelming experience having lived in a semi-rural area attached to a university, then here in Hartford. Who is right? Is my experience the one that can be extrapolated to ALL blacks or minorites? Is yours? Nope, neither are correct because you can not generalize like that. You can't even say a majority unless you have clear numbers (pure data, since you distrust statistics so much when they disagree with you). In this thread, you have used every single tactic that you assault the far left for regularly. You make claims and refuse to provide proof. You provide anecdotal and second-hand evidence as proof when pressed further. Instead of arguing the issue on its merits, you insult, belittle and discard those who disagree with you out of hand when they try their best to remain civil and on-point. The only thing you haven't done is resorted to out-and-out namecalling or swearing... Remember this thread next time you want to go after the left for their poor tactics, for their lack of proof and civility. Remember that you hold more in common with them than you'd like to admit.

Sorry Zoomba, but I myself made no claims that required proof. Nor for that matter was any asked of me. So do not lump both in the same catagory. That would make you guilty of doing the same thing that you're accusing us of.

Sorry Zoomba, but I myself made no claims that required proof. Nor for that matter was any asked of me. So do not lump both in the same catagory. That would make you guilty of doing the same thing that you're accusing us of.

drmiller... I just reread the thread and you're right. I apologize. I think I got mad at your being dismissive and belittling of Tex and tossed you in just so I could chide you to. The above should be exclusively directed at RW. Sorry about that.

We forget that this isnt a 'nasty' we're dealing with, but a sensitive and highly intelligent young woman who has treated everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY on JU with decency and respect. She deserves the same from us, regardless of our political persuasion. Save the viciousness for those offer it up.

You are 100% right. I did forget I wasn't dealing with you know who. My problem is that I tend to lump "all" liberals in the same catagory.....liberal moon-bats. I keep forgetting they are not all the same. And by the way LW, thanks for the links. That was partially mine as well.

Sorry Zoomba, but I myself made no claims that required proof. Nor for that matter was any asked of me. So do not lump both in the same catagory. That would make you guilty of doing the same thing that you're accusing us of. drmiller... I just reread the thread and you're right. I apologize. I think I got mad at your being dismissive and belittling of Tex and tossed you in just so I could chide you to. The above should be exclusively directed at RW. Sorry about that

No problem. It was said differently but.... if one dog scratches a flea the rest probably have them too.

The thing is, (nasty attitudes notwithstanding) there is much proof available for many of RW's claims. A simple google search using the terms "Government Programs for minorities" turns up scads of govt. programs exclusively designed for the advancement of various racial groups, from african american and hispanic to pacific islanders and native americans.

Just to let you know LW I sent an apology to Tex directly since she left her email address. Here is a copy so you don't accuse me of pulling a "lucas".

Tex, I would have done this on JU but you blacklisted me so I can't. I wish to offer my apology for being so rude to you on rightwingers thread. What I said is the way I feel, but it could have been said in a lot better way. The way it was said is inexcusable at the very least. Little Whip said it for me later. We sometimes forget who we are dealing with (meaning you) after having dealt with the likes of col gene and dabe. And like most "idiots" I tend to lump all liberal types together. Even if they're cut from different cloth. Whether or not if you come back to JU...I don't want to be the reason you go. Please except my apology. John J. Miller Pittsburgh, PA Remember: A good friend will come and bail you out of jail... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, Damn...that was fun!" "Illegitimis non carborundum"

Sorry dear but you're in no position to disagree. You are "not" military. You are the spouse of a military person.

DrMiler, what kind of mindless cretin still holds on to this outdated bullcrap. The only people who still cling to the "if the military wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one" are useless NCOs and Officers who don't give a crap about their troops. It is attitudes like this that lead to great troops not re-enlisting because of pressure from wives who are sick of being treated like they don't exist, but are expected to "toe the line".

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

The spouse is just as "in" as the servicemember... the only difference is the job description and the pay!

Sorry dear but you're in no position to disagree. You are "not" military. You are the spouse of a military person. DrMiler, what kind of mindless cretin still holds on to this outdated bullcrap. The only people who still cling to the "if the military wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one" are useless NCOs and Officers who don't give a crap about their troops. It is attitudes like this that lead to great troops not re-enlisting because of pressure from wives who are sick of being treated like they don't exist, but are expected to "toe the line". I've said it before and I'll say it again... The spouse is just as "in" as the servicemember... the only difference is the job description and the pay!

Before you go running off at the mouth, maybe you should read reply #64. You can now remove your foot from your mouth.

Nah, I know you better than that. It takes a big man to apologize, drmiler, and I'll c/p this on her thread to make sure she sees it. I also hope she reconsiders her decision to leave, and just chills for a few days to put things back in a better perspective. As you yourself know, sometimes a break can be a very good thing, we all get too wrapped up in this shit now and then, myself included.

My biggest mistake was putting her in with the rest of the liberal moon-bats. She has more brains than that.

My biggest mistake was putting her in with the rest of the liberal moon-bats

At least you've got the balls to apologize. it takes character to do that...

At least you've got the balls to apologize. it takes character to do that...

Unlike some we "could" name here but won't, I do "try" to fess up when I screw up. Unlike when I was a kid. I was good at pulling a democrat back then. That's blame EVERYTHING else "but" me.

Unlike when I was a kid. I was good at pulling a democrat back then. That's blame EVERYTHING else "but" me.

Smart Democrats grow up into Mature Republicans.

Before you go running off at the mouth, maybe you should read reply #64. You can now remove your foot from your mouth.

You apologized to Brandie, and that is great, it really is! However, do you really think that military spouses are not part of the military? Don't mean to be such a jerk about this point, but it has always been a sore spot with me. Other than that, we'll just go on getting along as usual. ;~D

Unlike some we "could" name here but won't, I do "try" to fess up when I screw up

And that is very refreshing and much appreciated.

However, do you really think that military spouses are not part of the military?

I sure hope not. I know that I think I'm just as much a part of the military as Dave is. His career is a joint effort....his job is to wear the uniform, and my job is to support him and help him do what he needs to do. If I look after the house and kids, he can go off and take care of the mission without having to worry about what's going on at home.

RW, I'm sorry I hijacked your thread. I'll go write an article on my own blog about this...

You apologized to Brandie, and that is great, it really is! However, do you really think that military spouses are not part of the military? Don't mean to be such a jerk about this point, but it has always been a sore spot with me. Other than that, we'll just go on getting along as usual. ;~

I never meant that they were not a part of the military. They are and should be. But it's a different part is all. See you're still going on what I originally posted. Not what was posted later as part of the apology.

Tex, I would have done this on JU but you blacklisted me so I can't. I wish to offer my apology for being so rude to you on rightwingers thread. What I said is the way I feel, but it could have been said in a lot better way. The way it was said is inexcusable at the very least. Little Whip said it for me later. We sometimes forget who we are dealing with (meaning you) after having dealt with the likes of col gene and dabe. And like most "idiots" I tend to lump all liberal types together. Even if they're cut from different cloth. Whether or not if you come back to JU...I don't want to be the reason you go. Please except my apology. John J. Miller Pittsburgh, PA Remember: A good friend will come and bail you out of jail... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, Damn...that was fun!" "Illegitimis non carborundum"

Again, ENOUGH on this subject!

I'm tired (mentally)just by reading this thread and I do know how she feels cause I feel the same way. Sad...really sad...

Whip, I hope she reads your comments.

I'm tired (mentally)just by reading this thread and I do know how she feels cause I feel the same way. Sad...really sad... Whip, I hope she reads your comments.

I believe she has. Here's an update....this is an email from me back to Brandie.

I didn't mean to be so dismissive. Like I told para...They (you) are "part" of the military and rightfully so and hopefully always will be. Ya'll are just a "different" part is all.. Your one sentence is what I was aiming at and obviously missed. "I do not fully comprehend what my husband, or his fellow Soldiers, experience throughout the day or while on deployment" Nor can you, because you're a different part of the equation. Hopefully I said that a little better that I did the first time. You take care now and come back soon. Like I said I don't want to be the reason for you leaving. John J. Miller Pittsburgh, PA Remember: A good friend will come and bail you out of jail... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, Damn...that was fun!" "Illegitimis non carborundum" -----Original Message----- From: Brandie Neal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:30 PM To: John J. Miller Subject: Re: Apology John, I absolutely accept your apology and appreciate that you cared enough to take the time to offer it. I realize that you are not one to worry with using soft words, and I accept that about you. What hurt me was the dismissal of my views and experiences simply because I am a military spouse and not a service member. I do not fully comprehend what my husband, or his fellow Soldiers, experience throughout the day or while on deployment, but I am intimately familiar with many of the expectations the military has for him, as well as with the ins and outs of military life. I have sought out ways to be supportive of, and involved with, his military career, and I do not take my obligations as a military spouse lightly. To have my experiences dismissed out of hand was extraordinarily hurtful to me. I also want you to know that while to you I may seem obtuse or similar to the liberals that you battle day in and day out, I am truly sincere in my beliefs, and search constantly for what is right and true. I am not one to refuse to concede or admit to being wrong. I am willing to examine my beliefs and adjust them when needed. We will not always agree, but I can promise you that I will give thought and consideration to the views and evidence presented by you and others. I may not always (or even regularly) come up with the same conclusion as you, but I am, and will continue to be, willing to read, learn, and think about the ideas you present. Thank you again for this humble act of kindness. It is greatly appreciated. Take care, and have a great day. Sincerely, Brandie aka "Tex"

Many of you have been pretty condescending to her on this thread, as if talking to a very slow child rather than an intelligent, expressive young woman. The references to naiveity and 'living in a bubble' were repetitious and patronizing, akin to patting her on the head and saying.."there there, dear, we know you feel this way because you're too dumb to know any better, but we wuv you anyway."

I know, LW, I know...I was more than a little patronizing, but that's just because I can't believe how naive she is....the welfare thing especially irritates me, because she's like, literally the ONLY person in America who's never heard about it. The first time I mentioned it months ago, it was an utter revelation to her. How blind is she? And she refuises to ask anyone, even for their opinion. Why? Is she that scared her world will get rocked? She's deliberately blind....and to assume that, if she simply calls up the local welfare office and asks if they have a racial bias----come on! How deliberately naive can any one person be? Just to give her the benefit of the doubt, I asked my wife when I got out of the shower..."in your opinion...do you think it's easier for blacks to get government help, rather than whites?"
And my nearly non-political but still with a slightly Left lean to her opinions wife said 'of course it is'.

I apologize to her, though, if she'll accept it....sorry, Tex; I didn't mean to get carried away. Please don't be too upset with me. Thanks for taking me to task, LW.

Doesn't look like it did much good, bro

I'm still allowed to have my views, LW, whether or not they hurt someone's feelings.

I have an open apology to Tex W in the works....I'm not at home at the moment, though, which is where it is (I learned a long time ago not to completely trust the server here, so everything I write is first done in Word).

I understand that some may think poorly of me or of some of my views...that's fine; I understand. People see things differently.
I don't want to be the catalyst, however (if I may be so egotistical) that causes JU to lose a particularly sweet and caring writer/poster.
My apologies to Texas Wahine for being an ass. Sorry, Tex.

Well, when you and yours are actually willing to hold blacks accountable for their actions, perhaps we will.

How about letting ALL people be held accountable for their actions Rightwinger.

Well, when you and yours are actually willing to hold blacks accountable for their actions, perhaps we will. But when we see a large majority of blacks sucking for so long off the government teat, so much so that it becomes fodder for humor even to blacks themselves, as it has, it's hard to point a finger in specifics, rather than to wave a hand in generality.

As I have said many a time and will repeat many a time, it takes more than a generation to give black people a chance to make things that others are use to having (wealth, power, education, central family unit) something of a normal thing rather than something special.

For you its been years of hand outs, for us it is a way to equalize the things that we don't have. I do believe that some of these 'handouts' need to stop, but not all of them. Keep in mind that some of these handouts are open to others (welfare is an example of something that ONLY HAD A MAJORITY OF BLACKS ON IT FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS... so who was on it before and was it a hand out when a white person is on it?)

---

I believe that many black people do feel that they are intitled to these programs and more help than others. I also feel that many don't use the programs to move to a better place in life, I also believe that, unlike other nationalities and races, many black people don't have the skill set and the 'get up and go' attitude of other mainly because of years of not being able to do anything (Just because laws changed in the 1970's doesn't mean that the phycological damage gets erased. Generations have to pass before the grandchild believes that she is just as human as you Rightwinger)

You can open the lid to the jar, but the contents inside forgot how to get out.

Even now, as a black person wanting to open a business, a white person might be more open to talking about it and even joining up, while a black person, on average, would be more sceptical.

KEEP IN MING I AM NOT SAYING ALL BLACKS PLEASE!!!


I am not suprised (and I don;'t think any one should be) that a person of color said that. We are all human and there are those who are dumbasses. Black people can be dumbasses too, but it would seem that because we are black, we are not allowed to be stupid.

I do feel that dispropotionaily that black people think on more racial terms that white people without foundation in logic, but that will diapate as the younger generation gets older and as the children become young adults. It will disapate as education reaches into the families (I shouldn't be the ONLY child of 20 cousins to have a gegree, but in the future it will be higher ANDbe more expected for faily and friends to go) and neighborhoods (I shouldn't be the only one on my block to have a 4 year degree), as wealth reaches more families, and as both the father and mother raise their child.

How about letting ALL people be held accountable for their actions Rightwinger

I do hold all people accountable....but it often seems that blacks as a group are given a free pass due to their skin color. This is not fair, Joe..not at all.

I also believe that, unlike other nationalities and races, many black people don't have the skill set and the 'get up and go' attitude of other mainly because of years of not being able to do anything (Just because laws changed in the 1970's doesn't mean that the phycological damage gets erased. Generations have to pass before the grandchild believes that she is just as human as you Rightwinger)

This is a copout, then....oh, the poor blacks...we kept them down for so long that their getup and go gotup and went? Come on...tell it to Condi and Colin, not to mention all the black businesspeople, doctors, nurses and lawyers who worked their way out of the ghetto. You insult their accomplishments.
I suppose that could mean that we're not all equal, then, right?
Many whites are not skilled, either, but, though there has never been (to my knowledge, at least) a study to prove it, whites as a social group do seem much less likely to walk their children down to the Welfare office and sign them up when they turn 18 and get on their own. This does happen with blacks, and we all know it. Two generations have passed since the Welfare Act was passed, and there are probably some out there who haven't worked a day since.

I find it amusing that my little aside, which ammounted to not much more than an offhand comment, about the black jerk has created such an uproar. Why? Because I dared to mention it at all? Because I dared to cite an example of black-white racist behaviour? Sorry, but I don't hand out free passes that easily.

Gotta go...more on this post later.

I'm sorry, Tex...where did you say you got the bubble you live in? I'd like to make airplanes out of whatever its made of, so they'd be more sturdy and less likely to come apart in a crash.

RW,

Well, when WHITE friends of mine lobbied the Wisconsin State legislature because the legislature didn't want to fund their child's PRIVATE education (incidentally, these individuals were STAUNCH Republicans), when Republican senators such as Bob Dole staunchly supported farm subsidied for decades, and when businesses DEMAND economic incentives to relocate, you can't tell me the entitlement mentality isn't JUST as pervasive among MANY whites as it is among MANY blacks.

It's not a race thing, it's an ignorance thing.