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TIME Outed Rove and Libby

TIME Outed Rove and Libby





The articles in Time this week have clarified a number of issues that have been bouncing around Joe User. The first issue is the status of Valerie Plame in the CIA. Many bloggers on Joe User have claimed she was not a covert CIA Agent. The CIA, in a very unusual action, confirmed that Valerie Plame was in fact an NOC covert agent. This is an agent who works undercover without the protection of any diplomatic immunity and are the agents in the most danger for themselves and the contacts that they develop in living their double life for the CIA. These agents are difficult to establish and are the type of agent that was intended to be protected under 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Unfortunately, this law was designed to be very difficult to violate and the one thing that the Time articles did not address is whether Rove or Libby met all the technical requirements that violated this particular statute.

The second issue that was clearly documented in the Time articles was the fact that it was Karl Rove that first identified Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA operative to Matt Cooper of Time magazine. It was not another reporter, it was Rove. In addition, Rove told Cooper Valerie was involved in the WMD which has also been confirmed by the CIA. In addition, Matt Cooper testified before the grand jury that Scooter Libby, the vice presidentâ's chief of staff, confirmed the fact that Wilsonâ's wife was a CIA operative working on WMD. It is now clear that the two White House staff members mentioned in the Bob Novak article which identified Valerie Plame as a CIA Agent were Rove and Libby.

These two individuals consistently lied saying that they were not involved with identifying Wilsonâ's wife as a CIA agent. It is likely that President Bush was unaware at the outset that Rove and Libby were the White House staffers that outed Plame given the fact that Bush said he would fire the persons responsible for identifying Plame as a CIA agent. No one knows exactly when Bush and Cheney learned it was their principal assistants that had loose lips but Bush has now changed the criteria to being convicted of a crime not merely violating the spirit of law which was to protect agents such as Valerie Plame.

Time magazine has done us a great service in identifying Rove and Libby as liars who endangered one of our CIA. Agents. In addition to the potential harm to Plame, there is the danger to people Valerie Plame worked with while she lived her secret life as a covert agent. That is why the CIA went to the Justice Department and a Special Prosecutor was appointed. It is also the reason that the FBI is conducting a major investigation of this matter. Only Patrick Fitzgerald, the Special Prosecutor will be able to determine whether Rove or Lobby actually violated the complex law intended to protect the identity of clandestine operatives in the CIA. There is no question that Rove and Libby are the people that violated at least the spirit of law and lied to the American people. It is time for President Bush to follow his original commitment to terminate Rove and Libby for their actions in identifying one of our covert CIA Agents.

37,168 views 152 replies
Reply #76 Top
I had not sceen the July 13, 2005 article. However, that does not alter the fact that Cooper testified,under oath before the GJ, the it was"ROVE THAT TOLD HIM MRS WILSON WAS A CIA AGENT! " That was in TIME last week. Rove also told Cooper the information was about to be declassified thus Rove knew what he told Cooper was classified. When all the facts are known, altgough Rove may not have been the target of the SP investigation, he may be one of those charged! Saying this is not a serious matter does NOT AGREE with what the CIA believes is the case. Rove has a BIG mouth and had no business talking about matters that deal with our security to reporters. At the time he talked with Cooper and Novak he was the President's Political advisor NOT his Security Advisor! WHY was Rove involved with ANYTHING to do with the CIA?
Reply #77 Top
When all the facts are known, altgough Rove may not have been the target of the SP investigation, he may be one of those charged!


There is nothing to charge Rove with. Do you even read anything that counters all your opinions and distortions?



Saying this is not a serious matter does NOT AGREE with what the CIA believes is the case. Rove has a BIG mouth and had no business talking about matters that deal with our security to reporters. At the time he talked with Cooper and Novak he was the President's Political advisor NOT his Security Advisor! WHY was Rove involved with ANYTHING to do with the CIA?


As usual you ignore everything told to you col. These investigations are common and the only people making a big deal out of it are you and the liberal media.

Next thing col. Nothing Rove said has anything to do with "our" security. He was debunking Wilson as a fraud (which has been proven), so Rove was doing his job. The only person to blame in this whole non-scandal is Plame herself. She put herself in this situation the moment she used her husband as a political operative.

You lost again col.
Reply #78 Top
I had not seen the July 13, 2005 article. However, that does not alter the fact that Cooper testified,under oath before the GJ, the it was"ROVE THAT TOLD HIM MRS WILSON WAS A CIA AGENT! " That was in TIME last week. Rove also told Cooper the information was about to be declassified thus Rove knew what he told Cooper was classified. When all the facts are known, although Rove may not have been the target of the SP investigation, he may be one of those charged! Saying this is not a serious matter does NOT AGREE with what the CIA believes is the case. Rove has a BIG mouth and had no business talking about matters that deal with our security to reporters. At the time he talked with Cooper and Novak he was the President's Political adviser NOT his Security Adviser! WHY was Rove involved with ANYTHING to do with the CIA?


It alters EVERYTHING concerning ROVE, you sorry excuse for an american! You have been told over and over that Rove is not the target of the investigation. And over and over you have screamed from the roof tops "Yes, he IS!". Well you have been proven wrong once again! Rove is NOT the target. Never was. No one has EVER stated that this was not serious. It surely is! But NOT to Rove it isn't! And it may well be that he is indited in the end. But until that "actually" happens you can quit calling for his blood. And just an aside....here's a direct quote from Cooper.:


As for Wilson's wife, I told the grand jury I was certain that Rove never used her name and that, indeed, I did not learn her name until the following week, when I either saw it in Robert Novak's column or Googled her, I can't recall which. Rove did, however, clearly indicate that she worked at the "agency"--by that,

Note that Rove did NOT say CIA! Also that Rove NEVER used her name!

I told the grand jury, I inferred that he obviously meant the CIA and not, say, the Environmental Protection Agency. Rove added that she worked on "WMD" (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. This was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife.


And btw...the facts do not support your theories!
Reply #79 Top
drmiler

You do not need to use her madern name to identify her. Rove told Cooper Wilson's wife was a CIA Agent. None of you EVER explain why the CIA believes this is such a serious issue. You say it is the "Liberal Media" The CIA is NOT the liberal media!!!
Reply #80 Top
You do not need to use her madern name to identify her. Rove told Cooper Wilson's wife was a CIA Agent.


He didn't say that, read the post col.



None of you EVER explain why the CIA believes this is such a serious issue. You say it is the "Liberal Media" The CIA is NOT the liberal media!!!


I haven't seen where the CIA is making a big deal about this. I told you these investigations are normal, and the only reason it gets coverage in the media is because people like you have some theory that Rove is guilty of something. This is a non-story.
Reply #81 Top
Rove told Cooper Wilson's wife was a CIA Agent.


Wrong answer! Now go back and re-read my post! He said "agency" NOT CIA! CIA was assumed by Cooper!
Reply #82 Top
It seems to me that anyone who is accused of leaking names of any CIA employee who is not designated to be publicly known, should be investigated. Regardless of which party they belong to. It just so happens that Karl Rove happens to be a republican. I would be all for the same treatment if he was a democrat.

You just can't do things like this, especially nowadays. When you out any intelligence operative, you run the risk of endangering anyone who has ever worked with the outed operative. This is a dangerous ploy that can cost people their lives, endanger ongoing covert operations, and compromise the entire intelligence apparatus of the US government.

The fact it was done as political payback for someone not playing ball just makes it worse.

Give em hell COL.
Reply #83 Top
It seems to me that anyone who is accused of leaking names of any CIA employee who is not designated to be publicly known, should be investigated. Regardless of which party they belong to. It just so happens that Karl Rove happens to be a republican. I would be all for the same treatment if he was a democrat.

You just can't do things like this, especially nowadays. When you out any intelligence operative, you run the risk of endangering anyone who has ever worked with the outed operative. This is a dangerous ploy that can cost people their lives, endanger ongoing covert operations, and compromise the entire intelligence apparatus of the US government.

The fact it was done as political payback for someone not playing ball just makes it worse.

Give em hell COL.


Give them what? Give them misinformation? Why don't you go read what I posted in reply #78. Here let me help:

As for Wilson's wife, I told the grand jury I was certain that Rove never used her name and that, indeed, I did not learn her name until the following week, when I either saw it in Robert Novak's column or Googled her, I can't recall which. Rove did, however, clearly indicate that she worked at the "agency"--by that,I told the grand jury, I inferred that he obviously meant the CIA and not, say, the Environmental Protection Agency. Rove added that she worked on "WMD" (the abbreviation for weapons of mass destruction) issues and that she was responsible for sending Wilson. This was the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife.


This is a direct quote from Cooper btw. Now try again.
Reply #84 Top
It just so happens that Karl Rove happens to be a republican. I would be all for the same treatment if he was a democrat.


Of course the media would only go into a frenzy with a Republican.


The fact it was done as political payback for someone not playing ball just makes it worse.

Give em hell COL.


First of all, he didn't do anything wrong. Next, there is no evidence what Rove did do was "payback". Wilson is a fraud and Rove was warning a reporter. He was doing his job.
Reply #85 Top
TGISLC -
The fact it was done as political payback for someone not playing ball just makes it worse.

This is certainly the theory that the MSM are working, but there is absolutely no evidence to date that supports this theory - it is just the presumed motive based on the assumption that Rove intentionally outted her. Mind you, it depends entirely on that assumption - otherwise the theory collapses. And it's not that Wilson "wasn't playing ball" - he was blatantly misrepresenting his findings and report, as confirmed by the bipartisan Senate committee that investigated his claims.

What I have read so far fails to substantiate the notion that there was some sort of fierce campaign to discredit Wilson himself, as opposed to his claims. I've also yet to hear a plausible explanation of how the simple disclosure, intentional or otherwise, of his wife's identity & status with the CIA would "discredit" or "undermine" Wilson or his claims, despite asking for such an explanation repeatedly here and in other threads on this subject.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #86 Top
Cooper appeared on TV and said he learned Wiklson's wife was a CIA Agent who worked on WMD from Rove and that Libby confirmed that. ALL else is BS. Rove has a BIG mouth talking to the press about CIA Agents. What the Hell is the Presidents Political advisor ( That is what he was at that time) doing talking to trhe press about our CIA Agents? How about one of you blind Bushies answer that question!!!!!!!!! Cooper said in TIME " This is the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife" There is no doubt, Cooper learned Mrs Plame was a CIA agent from Rove!
Reply #87 Top
What the Hell is the Presidents Political advisor ( That is what he was at that time) doing talking to trhe press about our CIA Agents?


I'm not a blind Bushie, but you have annoyed me into answering this any way: Again, Plame was not a field agent and had not been for years.

Cooper said in TIME: "As for Wilson's wife, I told the grand jury I was certain that Rove never used her name and that, indeed, I did not learn her name until the following week, when I either saw it in Robert Novak's column or Googled her, I can't recall which. Rove did, however, clearly indicate that she worked at the "agency"".

Cooper learned Mrs Plame was a CIA agent from Rove!


Cooper learned that Mrs Plame worked for the CIA, not that she was an agent from Rove (which she was not an agent). It is not much of a secret CIA agent cover if Cooper got her name from Google. It would surprise me if Rove had even known that Plame ever was an Agent, with how openly Plame and Wilson flaunted where she worked.
Reply #88 Top
Cooper's own words refute you, Gene. But keep banging your head on the wall. It's kind of fun to watch.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #89 Top
What the Hell is the Presidents Political advisor ( That is what he was at that time) doing talking to trhe press about our CIA Agents? How about one of you blind Bushies answer that question!!!!!!!!!


We have answered that question several times. You just won't accept the answer.

Rove was debunking Wilson. That was it. Everybody here is telling you are wrong, but you don't get it. You lose again col.
Reply #90 Top
But keep banging your head on the wall. It's kind of fun to watch.


-LMAO

--Ya know what guys...i know it might get on your nerves concerning what COL is doing...but have ya tried the silent treatment, as LW said in another topic, you're playing into his hands.....just a thought.....
Reply #91 Top
(Also, trying to get COL to let go of his...'facts', is like talking to a wall, or, banging your head against a wall...neither is getting you anywhere...)
Reply #92 Top

Cooper appeared on TV and said he learned Wiklson's wife was a CIA Agent who worked on WMD from Rove and that Libby confirmed that. ALL else is BS. Rove has a BIG mouth talking to the press about CIA Agents. What the Hell is the Presidents Political advisor ( That is what he was at that time) doing talking to trhe press about our CIA Agents? How about one of you blind Bushies answer that question!!!!!!!!! Cooper said in TIME " This is the first time I had heard anything about Wilson's wife" There is no doubt, Cooper learned Mrs Plame was a CIA agent from Rove!


YOUR the one that's BS! The quote on reply #78 is DIRECT from Cooper to Time. Read the ENTIRE quote not just select parts of it. Get a clue ya old jerk!
Reply #93 Top
just a thought.....


A posted thought.

Some threads are like bad wrecks on the freeway - you know you shouldn't slow down & look but you just can't help it. No big deal. I have no illusions. Gives my brain a workout even if it doesn't his.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #94 Top
And it's not that Wilson "wasn't playing ball" - he was blatantly misrepresenting his findings and report, as confirmed by the bipartisan Senate committee that investigated his claims.


you have a source for the blatant misrepresentation or that confirmation. i've read the report more times than i care to admit. if it's there, i must have missed it.
Reply #95 Top
Some threads are like bad wrecks on the freeway - you know you shouldn't slow down & look but you just can't help it


-I know...i feel horrible after looking, but its hard not to look...(it is said that at a human's "base/core", they are 'savage beasts'...and that only through development they have become what they are today...)
Reply #96 Top
Jeez Miler, do you have to always result to petty name calling when you're out of ammo?

Grow up. Or better yet, wake up! This is after all the COL's blog. You don't like it, don't read it!
Reply #97 Top

Jeez Miler, do you have to always result to petty name calling when you're out of ammo?


This tells me one of two things is going on. Either a)You haven't read the whole thread, or b)your not comprehending all that you read. I'm not really sure which it is. The reason I say this is because "I'm" not the one out of ammo here. I can very easily refute ANY claim he has made on this thread and I'm not the only one that can. But when I or others have refuted something he has said, he dances around it and just says the same exact thing all over again. And there starts the dance. He's the one that needs to wake up not me. Just a for instance go read replies #72 & 73. Either that or this is payback for replies #82 & 83. And btw...."if" you actually knew me you'd know that what I called him shows that I'm being nice. What was going through my mind was a LOT worse!
Reply #98 Top
IF the Outing of Wilson's wife as a CIA Agent ( The CIA has stated Mrs Plame WAS a protected Agent) was due to the Wilson Report, then it was PAYBACK by Rove and Lobby as many believe. There was NO REASON why the President's POLITICAL ADVISOR should have been talking to the press about our CIA Agents and he was aware that the information was CLASSIFIED when he talked with Cooper and Novak. It is time to learn what Rove told Novak on their July 6th call!
Reply #99 Top
I see you have ignored once again the facts presented to you col. Will you finally admit you have been proved wrong again?
Reply #100 Top
kingbee -

Wasn't Wilson claiming that Bush's SOU statement that British intelligence had information suggesting Iraq had sought nuclear materials from Niger was a lie and that his report proved it? The Senate committee concluded that his report actually buttressed the suspicion that Iraq had sought to obtain such materials from Niger, though it never came to pass. Do you have information indicating otherwise?

Cheers,
Daiwa