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Ending the War on Drugs

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Ending the War on Drugs

Costs of persuing a failed strategy

http://www.csdp.org/edcs/
from JoeUser Forums
This is your brain on drugs.

Seems quaint now doesn't it? Humorous.

In 2003 the US spent $19 billion in the war on drugs, a stunning $600 a second. And for what?

1.6 million arrests, someone arrested every 20 seconds - 40% of which are for marijuana possesion. Not selling drugs, not traffiking, but POSSESION.

$600 a second to arrest 650,000 people for smoking pot.

What are we thinking???

Prohibition didn't work in the 1920s and it has not worked in the 30 years that we have waged the war on drugs. When will we learn a new approach is needed ?
politics
51,139 views 107 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yeah, Bakerstreet....I also had your mode of thinking for a very long time.......I first smoked pot when I was 37 (I know, ). I was always "afraid" because I bought into all that crap that they feed you about how "it's pot now, heroin next week".,etc., etc. but my curiosity got the better of me, and I tried it.....and I damn well liked it!! When people tell you that it "opens your mind", and "gives you a different perspective", that IS true.....for example, pre-marijuana Beatles (I Wanna Hold Your Hand), and *post-marijuana Beatles (Strawberry Fields). I won't convince you, as I wasn't convinced......I know how you are thinking, and I wouldn't want to go back there.

Weltregierung said it best...."Fight crime.....GROW YOUR OWN!" I'll be visiting www.overgrow.com now.......

*Thank you, Bob Dylan!
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
If the pot heads are correct in that pot is some super elixir that makes people better, then I think we not only should legalize it, but have our kids toke daily!
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Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
When people tell you that it "opens your mind", and "gives you a different perspective", that IS true.....for example, pre-marijuana Beatles (I Wanna Hold Your Hand), and *post-marijuana Beatles (Strawberry Fields).


Post-Marijuana Beatles: Marrying Yoko, saying they're bigger than Jesus, the end of the Beatles.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dont know when anyone ever said that pot is some super elixer...

it certainly hightens your senses though, and Welt hit the nail on the head. Watch a movie when not stoned... then watch the exact smae movie while high, i will ensure you that the movie will be ten times better.

Also - thanks for your input debidol, i also used to think were were bad, mmmmkay.

BAM!!!
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh yeah... so lets blame the break up of the beatles on Pot... right.

To quote Bill Hicks

If you are so against drugs, you had better get rid of all of your albums, because its a fair chance that the artists were real fukn high on drugs.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh yeah... so lets blame the break up of the beatles on Pot... right.


So it's only because of pot when it's a good thing, even when there are many other reasons for something being the way it is?

If you are so against drugs, you had better get rid of all of your albums, because its a fair chance that the artists were real fukn high on drugs.


I'm not against drugs. They don't bother me at all. It's the addicts that do. Praising pot for everything and yet never acknowledging situations that can be blamed as pot (especially if they're willing to put the blame on it as much as they want to thank pot for everything). Always trying to get others to smoke it, never telling of its problems, only its benefits (E makes sex better, so everybody should take it and those who don't are missing out!). That's why I'm against decriminalization.
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sorry........WHY are you against decriminalization? Do you want everyone who uses pot to be prosecuted? They don't have a jail big enough. BTW, Messy, noone is trying to talk you into it here (maybe in your life outside this forum?). Why would you want anyone to take away MY right to smoke it? What is the difference in smoking a couple of bongs in front of the TV than drinking a couple of wine coolers.....becasue it's illegal (like "wine coolers" would have been in the '20's) isn't going to prevent me from doing it.
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
Haha Meesy...

I dont want you to use drugs. Even though it seems you would benefit from their relaxing effects.

You are making huge assumptions that we would force our nasty habits on to anyone else... i think you are missing our point... our point is really pro-choice. We know its bad, but its up to us to decide if we want to use it or not... not some beurocrat.

If someone says they dont want a toke of my rastafarian spliff, i say fair enough, but its rude not to offer.

If you must know, I despise the way pot effects some poeple - it kills any semblance they had of a life, and turns them into de-motivated couch potatoes. I realise this, and there is no way i would let it happen to me, and essentially, i only have to look after me, not other people who aren't responsible with their use, and cannot see what it is doing to them.

BAM!!!
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sorry, but this is the most stereotypical crowd of drug users I have ever seen in my life. I stopped caring about 15 posts back, but it is really hilarious to read. I people have told me I am 'scared', that I am 'a mindless citizen stuck in the box', that it would 'open my mind'... I've been expecting someone to call me a square.

Is this the part in the public service announcement where I go talk to a 'trusted' adult? I mean, gah, if I read your posts in a Dennis Hopper accent it is perfect. Great kitsch; congratulations earth children, I dig your groovy scene... .

This hippy crap is so lame. After this I would be ashamed to say I used pot even if I did.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
Was the point of that post to prove your ignorance?

mission successful.

BAM!!!!

I dont see you providing any advice on the situation... it would be apparent that it is you doing the ridiculing!!!! All you have done is point out obvious facts? that we agree with?

What would be your solution to the current war on drugs Baker? i am very interested to know. Or is everything ok in your world?

Peace Out.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
Everything is fine in my world. Actually, I see a lot of people who use drugs here who are against the war on drugs. No brainer? Of course you are against the war on drugs. Every time you leave the house with a baggy in your pocket you are a target for law enforcement.

This discussion isn't about the war on drugs, it is about how there shouldn't be one. I don't see anyone here posing better ways to prevent drug use, because the most vocal here use them.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
To me, the sourness of the conversation started with:

Poetphilosopher. #7

"Everyone doesn't drink alcohol SOLELY for it's intoxicating effects, but it is certainly one of the primary desirable affects - if you are serious about that argument you hang out with some unusual people (IMO)."

That is what I find provocative about these opinions. You guys can't seem to conceive of people not wanting to be stoned or drunk. I can't get my mind around the jaded view that everyone that buys a $50 bottle of wine does so for the intoxicating effects. This is believed to the degree that those who don't are 'unusual". Unusual? To me that twists your idea of 'usual' to the point that you have no right speaking for what is usual.

When you are presented with someone who doesn't want to get drunk or stoned, then you start in the "Well, if you knew what it was like..." , "I used to feel that way". Basically saying I don't know what I am missing, or that I lack the proper experience to understand. Then you say you don't promote drug use? That's a lie, because you just did.

I don't need to validate the criminalization of recreational drugs, it is already criminal. If you do drugs, you are a criminal, whether or not you have been caught. So far I have seen nothing here that changes my mind, other than the fact you say the 'war on drugs' doesn't work. Fine, lets find something that does. You still won't be allowed to do recreational drugs. Then you won't like that either.

For that reason, I don't believe drug user's opinions of the War on Drugs are valid. Why? Because the basic nature of a drug user is the polar opposite of what the War on Drugs seeks to do, prevent people from using drugs. OF course you won't agree with it. Believe all you like that everyone that drinks alcohol gets drunk if it makes you feel better, but they don't. Believe that you are somehow in the majority in a world where there are virtually no nations without laws preventing recreational drug use, but you aren't. Believe you can 'handle your highs', but drug treatment centers are full of people who do, too.
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
So does Alcohol.


I don't drink alcohol. And even if I did, it's not against the law to drink alcohol, but it is against the law to do drugs. Perhaps it's unfair, but if it's illegal, you probably shouldn't do it. But definitely fight to get it changed if you want. The problem is, a majority of americans favor it being illegal.

Cheers
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
This pretty much sums up my opinion of this discussion: Discussing the War on Drugs vs. Discussing Legalization

I just don't think you are interested in a successful war on drugs, rather you want to spotlight the failings of it to further the argument that we shouldn't be fighting recreational drug use at all.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
" Perhaps it's unfair, but if it's illegal, you probably shouldn't do it." jeblackstar



The majority of people in this World does not believe in one white-bearded creator who impregnated some girl before her husband could see to her, .....and you don´t see us outlawing christianity. IMAO.

Many people think people who go to church are idiots, as well as many people think potusers are idiots.
Difference: Millions are in jail for pot, the other millions just get sentenced to heaven.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
Drugs aren't a religious issue. The effect of addiction on society is obvious, no faith is required.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
well isnt the effect of religiousness obvious as well?

....and Drug use isnt the same as addiction, don´t mix it up.

there are millions of people who even use "hard" ( more-likely-to-cause-addiction ) drugs
and they lead normal lives.
Not to speak of the MJ and Alc. users.
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am bitter that this post spawned five other blogs for which I am getting none of the points.

Life is so unfair.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
Drugs need to be gotten rid of. Period. I have had around 10 friends I have watched go from some of the smartest kids in school to the biggest drug addicted losers. You wanna know how fun it is to watch your friends throw their lives away? This wasn't cocaine or heroin, it was pot. Yep, harmless old pot ruined my friends' lives, and now they've dropped out of school and work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, Fred Meyer, and Safeway. Funny, I thought this drug was harmless.
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
The majority of people in this World does not believe in one white-bearded creator who impregnated some girl before her husband could see to her, .....and you don´t see us outlawing christianity. IMAO.


That's an amazingly offensive, but true statement. The thing is, there are countries where Christianity is outlawed. Do I think that's wrong? Yes, because I feel that religious freedom is important, I do not feel that Drug freedom is important. We all have seen over the years the harmful effect of the "legal" drugs, and our government has certainly taken steps to reduce their prominence. Just imagine if the illegal drugs were suddenly legal.

Cheers
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
have you guys been to the netherlands?
They are the only country who have a long long test run on
being liberal on soft drugs.

the statistic shows that there are no more users than in any other
western country, where Cannabis is prohibited.

In fact it successfully seperates markets.
It´s more likely someone will TRY some new drug, if he is forced to buy
his relaxation material from some lowlife street dealer... " hey Dude, sorry i´m out of pot, u want some acid?

Legalization seperates those markets. People have a liberal environment in which they can find out what they do and dont like, ...and in those coffeeshops in Holland there are non-potusers as well.

....and the statistics REALLY show that the liberal legal approach does reduce the social problems.
And brings taxes, too.

It is assumed that 10% of the world´s money flow is illegal-untaxed drug money,
...and it´s in the hand of REALLY criminal people.


..to sum up why i compared the topic to religion the whole time.
For me the spliffy after work is a form of "speed-meditation"
it calms me down, removes all the rubbish compost we gather during the day,
and helps me to come back to my inner-centre. Everyday.

Other people go to Thailand and take refuge in a buddhist temple, to learn meditation
and focus on what is wrong/right/important. Others sink themselves in Bible exegesis to find
truth and peace.

I find both methods silly, and it makes me smile about those people.
But nonetheless i respect them, and their choice. Unless they become complete idiots who defy everything that
is proven, important and fair.

..and i want that respect and tolerance as well.
You all don´t have to like drug-use, but you have to respect all the people who do as NORMAL.
Unless they become complete idiots who defy everything that
is proven, important and fair.

summary: the dose make the poison.

in that way Drug-junkies and Church-junkies play in the same league.

Thanks all for reading&participating&trying to understand.
-Weltregierung over&out.
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now drug advocates are comparing drug use to religion? With the ways they seem to praise drugs, it seems that they would have no problem giving them to children. This is yet another reason why I'm all for keeping it illegal.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
Weltregierung : , nah. Do you know the population of the Netherlands? Like 16 million people. Do you know the relative poverty level? People try to make the same comparison in terms of crime, as well, and it is just as irrelevant. The Netherlands is a tiny nation with a tiny population, and is in no way representative of a nation with 260 million people in highly stratified social system.

Comparing drug use in the Netherlands to drug use in the US would be like comparing crime in rural maine with crime in Los Angeles.