Kill as many as you need

We are the master race

from JoeUser Forums

Yes, so the argument goes.  Some do not believe that a fetus (zygote/embryo) is a person.  Some do not.

In the end, this is not about those difference.  this is about LIFE.

Ok, so how many of you would sacrafice your child to prolong your life?

Show of hands please.

Ok, so how many of you would sacrafice my child's life to prolong your life?

Show of hands again.

So who wants my body?

That is what we are talking about.  I will not debate whether you are right or I am.  for to me, that is what you are asking.  Take my life.

I would much prefer mine to an innocent childs.

Would not you?

politics
16,060 views 60 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here's my thoughts for what they're worth...

Couples are creating multiple embryos in their quest for a pregnancy, with numerous embryos going unused. Yes, some couples may go back and use more of the embryos for a later pregnancy (if there is a god, I wonder what he thinks about having a living being with a soul on ice for a couple of years, stuck in an embryonic state?), and some may donate the embryos to other couples, but that still leaves a lot of potential material for research and medical application.

Rather than casting these excess embryos aside, wouldn't it be preferable to use them to help sustain life?

I look at it this way...if there is a god, then the "souls" of these embryos, as well as aborted fetuses, return to god. They experience none of the pain and abuse and sorrow of life. (Also important to note that fetuses do not have the nervous system developments required to experience pain until around the 20th week of gestation). The ethical dilemma here would be more along the lines of creating these embryos and storing them than using them once they are created and deemed unneeded for pregnancy.

On the other hand, if there is no god, then there is no "soul." Consciousness and personality are the manifestation of the nervous system. If this is the case, then an embryo or early fetus is not going to be aware or experience any harm as a result of abortion or stem cell research methods.

Would I sacrifice my child for my own life? No.

Would I sacrifice your child for my life? No.

Would I sacrifice your life for mine? No.

Would I accept organs or tissue from your body were you to pass away and those organs were needed by me in order to save my life? Yes.

Would I accept medical care that is based in the use of stem cells? Yes.

The difference to me is a) the embryos already exist and must be either used or discarded and b) an embryo is not capable of independent life...it is not a child with thoughts and feelings and experiences...at that point, it is only a group of cells (yes, human cells) and not developed enough to be damaged by its use in research and treatment.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
How many of you would save a child by sacrificing an already discarded zygote?

How many of you would save YOUR child by sacrificing an already discarded zygote?

If a building was burning down and you had the choice of saving a child or saving a petri dish with zygotes, which would you save?

How many of you would sacrifice someone's child to "free" an Iraqi?

How many of you would sacrifice YOUR child to "free" an Iraqi?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................. something hypocritical this way comes............
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Agree to life myself. If one can not take care of there own life and the lives that depend on them why should they bring in another one. Yes use birth control or other methods. Hormones change, accidents happen, plans change. Plainly shit happens. The choice is there for good reasons, not wrong ones.

lilred.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Agree to life myself. If one can not take care of there own life and the lives that depend on them why should they bring in another one. Yes use birth control or other methods. Hormones change, accidents happen, plans change. Plainly shit happens. The choice is there for good reasons, not wrong ones.

lilred.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well... the woman diagnosed with cancer during her pregnancy seems to be in that situation. Her life or her baby (who probably will not make it because she would die rather quickly without imidiate treatment). Does it matter that she and her husband has kids already?

I wish to be pro-life, but I just can't see there NEVER being a reason to abort a child. Its just not that black and white.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
The difference to me is a) the embryos already exist and must be either used or discarded and b) an embryo is not capable of independent life...it is not a child with thoughts and feelings and experiences...at that point, it is only a group of cells (yes, human cells) and not developed enough to be damaged by its use in research and treatment.


Yes, they are damaged. But that is not your arguement, and I can respect that you do not believe life begins at conception.

But follow this simplistic line: many children die. many adults die. IN the end we all die. Many fetuses are aborted by the woman's body. But once you have mixed the X and Y chromozone, what is going to happen? One of 2 things.

A child will be born.

it will die.

just like all of us. That is the crap shoot of life. But to intentionally kill a child just because he has not sucking on his mother's teat? That is what you are asking of us. And we cannot. For in the end, a new born infant is as helpless as a newly fertilized egg. The only difference is the growth medium.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

How many of you would save a child by sacrificing an already discarded zygote?

How many of you would save YOUR child by sacrificing an already discarded zygote?

If a building was burning down and you had the choice of saving a child or saving a petri dish with zygotes, which would you save?

How many of you would sacrifice someone's child to "free" an Iraqi?

How many of you would sacrifice YOUR child to "free" an Iraqi?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................. something hypocritical this way comes............

And again you miss the point entirely and have become the intolerant that you so want to paint everyone else with.

having to choose who to save when one must die, is never an easy decision.  But except for some extreme cases, why must we be put into the position of having to chose?  We do not.  You would have us choose, and you would be guilty of murder for making the choice impossible.

As I said, you can call it a zygote, fetus, embryo or anything else you want if that is how you justify murdering other humans.  But by so labeling, you are avoiding the reality and perhaps your own feelings.

if there is any hypocrisy, it is on your part.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Agree to life myself. If one can not take care of there own life and the lives that depend on them why should they bring in another one. Yes use birth control or other methods. Hormones change, accidents happen, plans change. Plainly shit happens. The choice is there for good reasons, not wrong ones.

Choice is a Big Mac or Whopper.  Choice is not a convenience just because our libido got too active.  What choice does the child have?  Did anyone ask them?  Why not we put it to a vote and ask every child if they want to be aborted or not.  majority rules.

let's try that.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

I wish to be pro-life, but I just can't see there NEVER being a reason to abort a child. Its just not that black and white.

can you see never killing a 2 year old?  Same argument, different age.

And the woman with Cancer?  She took the baby to term, and died.  She did not abort it.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

I can see your point here.  I understand that abortion, to some people, is murder.  Both are the cessation of life, whether it's a zygote or a adult human.

I have thought about abortion.  I was very much for it until I was faced with having to make the decision myself. 

Our Jake was an unexpected pregnancy.  We were flat broke at the time...and yes, we considered abortion.  I did, anyway.  For about a week, my days and nights were pretty much consumed with thoughts of what to do.

I couldn't do it.  And, as you can tell, I didn't do it.  And, I'm glad that I didn't do it.  My gap-smiled, tow-headed handsome little dude would not be here if I had been able to do it.  I cried myself to sleep more than once after he was born, thinking about what I had considered doing.  Yes, things were rough financially, and they were that way for a while....but he was so totally worth it. 

I also often wonder how many other people who have considered abortion but not done it would say that they were sorry they ever had the child?  How can anyone look at the face of an innocent infant and say that they wish they'd killed them before they were born?

My thoughts on abortion are changing.  Whilst I won't impose my will and standards on anyone else, I do know that it wasn't the right thing for me to do, and I also know that I don't agree with it being used as a form of birth control.  Accidents happen, yes.....but how many times does an accident have to happen before it's no longer an accident?

 

 

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Whilst I won't impose my will and standards on anyone else, I do know that it wasn't the right thing for me to do, and I also know that I don't agree with it being used as a form of birth control.

You see, I respect that.  And also your compassion for my point of view.  I am not going to make you kneel to my beliefs.  I would hope that eventually all come to my beleifs.  But through intelliegent reasoning and not blind faith.

Not all on the opposite side want me to consent to murder.  Unfortunately, too many do.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I would hope that eventually all come to my beleifs. But through intelliegent reasoning and not blind faith."

And, therein lies the rub. What the freakin' hell makes you think that I, or zinkadoodle, or anyone else who doesn't think like you do, are not basing our decisions on intelligent reasoning? How utterly disgusting your thought processes are........ As far as I can tell, you're insistence upon forcing those of us who don't agree with you is because of YOUR blind faith. I'm not forcing anything upon you. If you don't believe in having an abortion, then don't freakin' have one. But, do not tell me what I am supposed to believe or do. How freakin presumptious of you.

As for stem cell research, AGAIN for the horrifically dense, the cells that would be used are doomed for disposal anyway. And besides, I do not accept the premise that they are human beings. That is my belief, and it is not blind faith.

Holy shit, you make me wanna puke, you are so blatantly arrogant and stupid.

(It's so good to be back from my vacation
)
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Holy shit, you make me wanna puke, you are so blatantly arrogant and stupid.

Wow, Dabe....why don't you tell us how you really feel?! LOL

Having said that, I can agree with your thoughts about imposing your will on someone else. I just wouldn't have put it so..bluntly, I guess.

DG, let me ask you this: are you in favor of the death penalty? Can you draw a paralell between the death penalty and abortion? After all, they're both killing, right?
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

Can you draw a paralell between the death penalty and abortion? After all, they're both killing, right?


Your comparing apples and oranges there D. Why the death penalty? Because the person in question did something so horrific that a jury deemed that he/she should die in reparation for the crime. What crime did the unborn commit?
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Why the death penalty? Because the person in question did something so horrific that a jury deemed that he/she should die in reparation for the crime. What crime did the unborn commit?


...and I understand that, but they're still legalized killing.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Why the death penalty? Because the person in question did something so horrific that a jury deemed that he/she should die in reparation for the crime. What crime did the unborn commit?


...and I understand that, but they're still legalized killing.


Yeah but for 2 entirely different reasons! One can be justified, the other can't.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Now, take that a step further, and let's see how you can justify carpet bombing a city just because of one evil dictator. Was it worth killing thousands of people, maiming many thousands more, just because of this one dictator, knowing full well there are many more evil dictators ruling other countries, some of whom happen to be dubya dummy's friends? I, for one, don't think so.


And what has this to do with the conversation at hand? Absolutely NOTHING!
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
"And what has this to do with the conversation at hand? Absolutely NOTHING!"

Sorry you can't see the connection. It must be very hard for you being so slowwwwwwwww on the uptake.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

There is no way to condone the killing of innocent people when you're so full of some kind of mixed up notion that a group of stem cells warrants special attention. NO FREAKIN' WAY.


And just "where" have I said/advocated this? NOWHERE, that's where! We're talking about abortion NOT stem cells. Stay on topic or stay out of my conversations.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

"And what has this to do with the conversation at hand? Absolutely NOTHING!"

Sorry you can't see the connection. It must be very hard for you being so slowwwwwwwww on the uptake.


I'm sorry that I don't have a sick and twisted mind as some people around here do.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
One of the biggest problems with the death penalty is that mistakes are made. drmiler, you're assuming that if someone got the death penalty, then they are, without a doubt, guilty. That's just plain not true.


My point exactly. We are human, we are fallible, and we DO make mistakes.

Anyway.....my point was that abortions are a legalized form of killing, and it seems to me that we justify killing in many forms....one of them being the death penalty.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, DG. I'll go make my own thread about this instead...
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
So who wants my body?


Lets see what ya look like

Sorry .. just couldnt resisit.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

And, therein lies the rub. What the freakin' hell makes you think that I, or zinkadoodle, or anyone else who doesn't think like you do, are not basing our decisions on intelligent reasoning? How utterly disgusting your thought processes are........ As far as I can tell, you're insistence upon forcing those of us who don't agree with you is because of YOUR blind faith. I'm not forcing anything upon you. If you don't believe in having an abortion, then don't freakin' have one. But, do not tell me what I am supposed to believe or do. How freakin presumptious of you.

Dabe, so happy you shit on my blog again!  And you missed the point entirely!  i dont want you to agree with me!  Because if YOU do, I know I am wrong.

You might try actually reading the article and responses.  Notice that no one is trashing anyone until you showed up?

You are a pathetic fool, that no one takes seriously and those that agree with you in some instances are embarassed to say so.  As would I.

I will let your comment stand as a reminder to all that you are brain dead and without logic.  You never post on topic, just spam the few blogs you visit.  You are a registered troll

Reply #24 from PolMach Forums Top
All i can say is that due to past incidents,i am a pro life person....
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Holy shit, you make me wanna puke, you are so blatantly arrogant and stupid.

My life has meaning!  I make the brain dead want to puke.  in that they may show some signs of intellligent discourse.  at least that would be more intelligent than any other actions or reactions they may have had in the past.