Do you have Faith?

So may quesions.

from JoeUser Forums
I was brought up as a Roman Catholic. I attended Catholic schools throughout my life, and went to church every single Sunday till I was in year 10 (1997)

Even though I was going to church from year 7 to 10, there was something that happened in 1994 that made me question my faith immensely, and left me rather baffled.

I am not going to tell you what that event was; I am just going to tell you that you would understand. Can you imagine how hard it is for someone who was brought up to believe all these stories on creation and religion, to just loose faith?

Faith is something I think everyone will need to question shortly. With the advancement of the human species in Technological and Philosophical areas, we really have to start asking the hard questions.

Cloning and stem cell research… Should it be allowed?

Ask yourself this… If you got around with a bunch of friends, and commissioned some of them to glorify your life when you died in mysterious circumstances, and this group of friends became somewhat engrossed by the story of your life, that they told a few people around them, then a few people around them, then a few people around them… is that a religion? Jesus Christ had Christianity… Mark Sugden will have Sugdianity.

Please don’t consider me blasphemous… Christians have my utmost respect, as does anyone who has any faith in any religion. I am just rather suspect to all the facts.

Last night on the Television I saw a story on how a baby was just born in Sydney – it was apparently a carbon copy of its father, and it was organized by the sect known as the Raelians - http://www.rael.org/english/index.html

This group is based on one French guy’s apparition of an Alien being talking to him and telling him that he is the savior of mankind… yada yada yada. In stead of Adam and Eve, or Evolution, these guys preach that humans were ‘placed’ on earth 10,000 years ago by Aliens as a social experiment… “As if” I hear you all say.

Well, I am sorry, while that sounds spaced out, I simply don’t know that it isn’t true, so I won’t rubbish the idea.

We are all so comfortable in believing that there is a greater being out there… we all take solace in the fact that there is some superior being watching over us… but is he really watching over you? Is it something that has just been drummed into your head by society? your parents? your environment?

Let me ask you – how isn’t it possible that human’s were planted here by Aliens 10,000 years ago? We simply don’t know.

Religion is holding science back. Cloning a whole human being, that’s not really something I am comfortable with, but stem cell research for medicinal purposes – that is something I am comfortable with. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/12/1076548160824.html - an article on the progress of stem cell research.

Stem cells are exciting because they can potentially be grown into any type of human tissue, even whole organs. They can be extracted from umbilical cord blood, bone marrow, even animals, but cloned cells are genetically identical to the person they were extracted from and of better quality

There are sooo many ethical questions though… how would you feel accepting a manufactured kidney?

If it means the quality of some ones life will improve… how is that an ethical question?

I am at a stage in my life where I will feel more spiritual on the beach, in the forest or up in the mountains than I ever do in a church, but I am also at a stage where I wish I knew more… It doesn’t really matter though, As long as I try to be the best person I can be… God, Ganesha, Jesus, Aliens, Mohammad and the great spirits will all be proud of me.

As a people though, I don’t think we can let archaic notions of supreme beings hold us back.

Your thoughts and comments will be well received.

Peace Out.
5,783 views 31 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Faith in the supernatural is an interesting phenomenon. I think it is very personal, which makes your story - lets say your awakening - very interesting. I sometimes question why I don't believe and it comes down to two things:

1) I was not brought up with the rituals (habits), nor imprinted with the need or desire as a child.
2) As an adult I have no use for it.

Point #2 is not a value judgement - I literally have no use for it. It does nothing for me.

For a lot of people I think faith is a crutch - taken away the person would fall over - which is not to say it's not a useful crutch - people need a lot of things to keep them going - among the things they could choose - drugs, alcohol, destructive relationships - faith is rather benign. Again I am not making a value judgement here - a crutch while it has a negative connotation is a useful tool - so let's say faith can be an instrument.

I think someone who believes will describe it in different terms :D

yo yo yo lets go way back to the 80s with XTC:

Dear God,
Don't know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know... I have the hope that there's gotta be a reason for all of this, but I have no firm belief in this. I don't know if I believe in the whole 10 commandments but it certainly is something to try to live up to. I have a lot of respect for people who >i>do believe unquestioningly, and wholeheartedly. I just don't think that I am there, yet. I was brought up in a very casual Christian atmosphere, but I probably went to church more often than anyone else. Now, there are a whole lot of reasons why my beliefs have changed, but I'm not sure it was for the better. So much has been done in the name of religion (negatively), that I am no longer comfortable with it.

I am trying to raise my daughter with a strong knowledge and understanding of my culture (Aboriginal/Ojibway), but from a spiritual sense, she is far more accepting of it than I am. I guess I feel I am caught between Christianity and teachings of the Creator. Ultimately, I am just doing my best, like you, to be as good a person as possible. I do have faith that it will all make sense when I am ready for it.

As far as science goes: yes, yes, yes to the worries of ethical responsibility. I feel that there is a lot of possibilities, but so much can go wrong, in the wrong hands. I don't know about striving forward when there is so much at stake. Is the world ready for any more advancement than what we have already made? I hate to sound like a pessimist, but look what we've done with/to the world so far.

But the most important word for me is hope. Hope that things will go well, that we, as a planet, will start to take care of humanity and the earth instead of continuing all the harmful and negative things that we've done so far. Hope is not a bad word at all.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Do I have faith? Yes I do. What is it that I believe? I believe in myself. Am I a God? No I am not. Do I believe that there is a God. Yes I do. Then if there is a God, where is He? In my heart.

How a person believed his religion, dictates how he or she, lives/behaves/acts/decides. It is all about believe. A person who believes in no religion, or doesn't believe in the existence of God, still believe.

Just like I don't believe that 10,000 years ago, our ancestor was inserted on this planet. What does that means? Does that means the alien who brought them is our God, Creator, whatever. And who created this alien? We have enough problem as it is, figuring out about ourselves without making things more complicated by saying we were brought up and down by aliens.

I don't think that anything and everything in this Universe is by chance, a coincidence of nature. I like to believe that there is a God. If there is no God, what am I doing in this planet and how did, coincidentally I could exist. If there is a God, I am a part of His Plan and therefore, I have a reason to being.

Just being aware of what you are, is a starting place to know that, there is a God who created you. If you don't exist, you don't need to know about God. But you do, and therefore, there is.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I love that post. Great explanation from a believer. There you go.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
That was amusing. Ockam's Razor dictates (paraphrased) that the simplest answer is most commonly correct. Let me tell you about things that are NOT simple. Atheism. Evolutionism. The Big Bang theory. Now how about something simple... God made it.

Now I respect anybody's rights to believe differently than I do, but what irritates me is when people say things like 'the Gods are one' as if they're so clueless that they don't understand how offensive that is to a person who believe there's only one God. There's no such thing as religious tolerance, so grow up and join us in the real world. There will never be a universal church and if there was it would be a disaster.

But believe what you want; you'll know the truth soon enough. When you start to wonder, though, why your life feels strangely empty, drop me an e-mail or a blog comment, and I'll tell you what it is you're missing. Jesus is Lord.

~Dan
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
What if Ockam was wrong ?

Einstein was never comfortable with Quantum Theory.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
When i start to wonder why my life is empty - i will be sure to ask you Dan... i can tell you right now though, it may not be for a while.

In my opinion, i would consider those who seek a greater being to fulfil their lives as rather weak willed... I just cant fathom the concept of someone beleiving 100% that 'God' created the world? how can you possibly be so sure?

I dont know anything about your personal life, but maybe those who have suffered major loss will understand me. If there is a God, he has rather black humor, because he is one sick puppy to let his world continue down the path it is currently entertaining.

Hans... interesting perspective... does there really have to be a reason why we are here though? other than to live the best lives we can and make the best of the time we are given? for mine, they are ample reasons to continue existing... i dont need to know there is a heaven, i just need to know that the people i love, love me back, and i need to know that my parents and family are proud of me... Religion does not come into that equasion once.

As for the stem cell research, weapons are bad... and they get in the wrong hands, but we keep making them???
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Muggaz...I believe there is. I mean,I asked myself why I was bornt in this century. Why not in the 19th, or 18th or better yet, either during 1AD or 500 years later. You see, just about anything and everything that we see, has a reason to being. Nothing is by chance or it just happened to be there. I am not saying that God had planned exactly what each and everyone of us needs to do. All I am saying, all of us is parts of a scheme of thing.

To live the best we can, is simply an adjective of how we live. You are right saying we don't need to know about heaven or hell. What is important right now, is what is related to us. Our families, friends and the environment we are in. The truth is, it is not so much about what religion we are in, but how we believe in it. That's how our relations and environments would be affected. We have heard of "religious" people who had done bad things in the name of what they believed. But if there is badness and pain in the things you did, probably there is something wrong in the way you believed.

I guess in the end, it is just between you and what you believed. If we did good and everyone is happy with what we did, I guess God is pretty happy with us too. Regardless what's His Name is.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ah, but Hans... some cultures would beleive you were around then.. re-incarnation etc...

Your answer is obviously more complex... i simply equate that i am here now, because my parents were randy in 1981. And so they should be... My parents were both very attractive. To quote Ockam's theory again... the simplest explaination is often right!

BAM!!!
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, Muggaz, the simplest explaination is often right. Maybe the world would be a better place to live in if we just stick to simple answers, instead of finding other esoteric reasonings. That requires more explaination. You know, its nice to have something tangible to believe in. Even though we might not be able to explain it sometimes.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, Hans, it is nice to beleive in something...

I beleive in hope...

but i cant beleive in what i cant be sure of.

I am sure of Hope... not so sure about God.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
wow---the religiously weak willed...a very very common misconception. You see, it take a much more aspiring mind to accept God. It's not laziness or even that we need something to fill a void (though we do). It's that it is ultimate truth; it's that there is no other answer; and as Dan said, we'll all know for sure some day. Me? I know for sure now....

Trinitie
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is it wrong for the religiously weak willed to find and accept God. It actually takes a lot more effort and time to find God. And probably a lot more to justify the believe. And some, after so much times and efforts, couldn't find the justification. A long time ago, someone told me this. The way to God, is through your heart. Get it clean up.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Trin - you mis-interpret what i say...

The religious aren't weak willed at all... its just that if they need God to fulfil their existence, i consider that particular concept rather weak.

If it was categorically proven that God didn't exist tomorrow... where would a lot of people in this world find meaning within their lives?
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dont know anything about your personal life, but maybe those who have suffered major loss will understand me. If there is a God, he has rather black humor, because he is one sick puppy to let his world continue down the path it is currently entertaining.


It's not God's fault that the world is heading down the path that it's on. It's the people steering that are to blame. God gave us free will. The ability to do and say whatever we like. and he asks that we serve and glorify him. I hate to say it Muggaz, but you are a typical non-believer. But i'm confident that one day you'll believe. You're too smart not to find the truth.

In my opinion, i would consider those who seek a greater being to fulfil their lives as rather weak willed... I just cant fathom the concept of someone beleiving 100% that 'God' created the world? how can you possibly be so sure?


you can't fathom the idea of believing in God, because you've placed your faith in something else. What that is, I don't know, but the fact remains. I can be sure that God created this Earth, because it's the only plausible explanation. If these so-called "aliens" put us here 10,000 years ago, that still doesn't explain who created the planet in the first place. Pick up a copy of "A Short History of Nearly Everything", by Bill Bryson. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767908171/qid=1076678697/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-3444004-8702463 ... that book will knock your socks off, and answer an ass load of your questions. It's not about religion, it's about science, so fear not. But in the scientific explanations, the religious ones make themselves clear. Or at least to me they did.

I am sure of Hope... not so sure about God


You are sure of Hope, but not sure of God.

without God my friend, there is no hope...

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Any logical / scientific argument falls flat. It can be countered round and round till the kangaroos come home (do kangaroos come home? - heheh). Evolution? Big Bang? God made them. And so it goes. Round and round. It seems to me also to be a bit disingenuous requiring proof for faith - it is essentially unprovable - faith is: the firm belief in something for which there is no truth (trust me - I just looked it up). So I try not to get involved in that line of reasoning - to me, it is not a useful discussion.

Your question:
If it was categorically proven that God didn't exist tomorrow
illustrates the point well. If it was proven tomorrow that God didn't exist - people would still believe. The VAST majority of people would still believe. And in fact I would bet that many non-believers would suddenly believe. That is the nature of it. The human mind is a curious thing don't you think?

How do I know my mother loves me? Well she does certain things which constitue proof, and I can logically determine she loves me.

It's missing the point.

I know she loves me because I feel it in my heart.

That is why I liked the post from Hans the best - it described this in a very personal way and I think quite eloquently.

there you go.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lol Imajinit!!!!

Kick it up a notch...

Nothing anyone can write here can make me sure there is a God... just like nothing anyone can write here will validate my position of faith at the moment...

In the movie 'Dogma' with Kevin Smith, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon (Where Alanis Morrisette plays God) i suppose my attitutde to faith is summed up best.... When is was younger, i was a altar boy in church, and i was sure of God... but now i am older, i start asking the questions - When you have a little cup, its easier to fill with faith, as you get older, the cup gets bigger, and its harder to fill.

Imajinit - You say without God there is no hope... There are a lot of religions around the world i.e 'Shinto' where there is no divine being, just nature... they have hope???
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top


I believe in God. I went through a methodical process of asking myself questions about the nature of the universe and my existance and came to the conclusion that the universe has an intelligent design - meaning that it the complexity cannot be attributed to randomness, but can only be explained by the presense of an intellect creating and implementing a design. I also came to believe that 'Good' and 'Evil' exist; independant of my interpretation. I believe that evil was something that only human beings are cabaple of perpetrating. After looking at any number of different philosophies and religions (Existentialism, Bhudism, Toaism, etc.) I felt that Christianity best describes the reality of the human condition. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that Jesus, based on his words and actions as recorded in the bible, is trustworthy.

I am painfully aware that all these things, these beliefs, are based on my own interpretations, perceptions, and predjudices. I am furthermore aware of my utter lack of ability to actually 'Know' anything. So everything is a guess, hopefully educated, at best. But that is my guess, that is my faith - as faith is all I can have. I have chosen, despite my own inadequacies, predjudices and fears, this way of belief.

That does not mean that I believe in a particular church or in christianity as it is practiced. I have no fellowship which I can call home at the moment. But I believe in God, and in Jesus His son, for my own reasons.

Faith is not blind, and never has been, not real faith anyway. Faith is stepping into the abyss of not knowing with your eyes wide open.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
That movie "Dogma" is one of my all time favorite movies. I love it!

I also love God and his son Jesus, and believe in them with all my heart... oh and the Holy Spirit too!
and i'm sorry that you do not. But we all have to come to God on our own terms.

You are right... nothing that anyone writes will make you believe. This means that it is probably going to take something much greater to make you believe...

hope you're ready when the time comes
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was in the process of writing you a reply when I was interrupted. A friend told me a story that I really liked. Someone we know died of a drug overdose. He was only eighteen. At the funeral someone said, "I know that God has a plan." He didn't finish the sentence. Someone who attended the funeral and was very upset about his death, asked my friend, "What was the end of the sentence?" My friend said. "I know that God's plan wasn't for him to overdose on drugs."

God plans only good things for us, but we or someone else messes up those plans. God gave us free will and so we can make choices that not only effect us but the whole world. I know for myself that God is good and that he loves me. I can fail, but he forgives. If you want to have faith, then pray to God and ask for it. He will give it to you if you want it. Faith is a gift from God. We didn't figure it out on our own. Growing up with believers can both help and hinder.

Another friend of mine, I call Carol was the daughter of an alcoholic. She loved her father very much. After he died, she wanted to know the meaning of life and prayed, then she went to the nearest church. She did find God through that church and found the purpose of her life.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
God plans only good things for us

So.. as mortals how do we determine what is "good" and what is "bad" ? Perhaps this teen died from an overdose because the effect of the death influenced two people to stop taking drugs? Perhaps had this teen not died, the next weekend in a drugged out haze he would have ran over a family of three, killing a father and two innocent children and leaving a devout mother questioning god. Perhaps death was in his plan, afterall, didn't Jesus die for our sins?

How can we know God's plan - especially when what is revealed seems to be different for different people. Are the suicide bombers of hezbollah following God's plan? How do we truely "know"? And if we can never know completely, and can only struggle and try to do our best, then what is the point? Why not leave everything up to fate - to God's plan?
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Run to the subgenius.... run!

I thank Bob every day that I have a mind, and sometimes I know how to use it....
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just want to make it known that I love the whole Jay and Silent Bob series particularly DOGMA!!!! haha, we share a common bond, friends.

Trinitie
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think i need to go and see Mel Gibsons Passion Play....

Thats where my problem lies at the moment... I am just very cynical towards Christianity/Catholicism... Basically the divinity of a human being (Jesus)

I have created another post, but i just think God is a concept of great and good... rather than being a single divine being to worship and praise.

Sherye... i appreciate your comments... but... "If you want to have faith, then pray to God and ask for it. He will give it to you if you want it"

If i want faith, i will look inside my soul... i am not going to ask a manufactured God that i dont beleive in, to give me the power to beleive.

If you have to ask to have faith, you shouldn't have it anyway.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sorry Muggaz, but I don't understand why you think it is wrong to ask God for faith and why one should have it anyway. Faith is believing in things that are not seen. Most of us live by what we can see. If God is greater than me, why can't I ask Him for what I need?