It's the whole look. The gold teeth, the baggy pants capable of concealing major weaponry, the expensive shoes that (for some) are worth killing to have. And I don't know how I would react to seeing someone dressed like this in the suburbs, because I can't really recall ever seeing someone dressed like this in the suburbs

a trip to the suburbs might prove to be quite a trip indeed. altho i don't venture there often because of all the things you hear about the suburbanite community, i do occasionally venture out into the world. except for gold teeth (which must be an eastcoast reverse status thing cuz next to a pair of overalls and muddy brogans, you can't hardly find an accessory that says 'i'm country' quite as effectively) it appears to me that those suburb youths are buying and wearing pretty much the same thuggin life stuff.

the main difference i've noticed is chad and dylan are much more likely to have their hair shorn down to a stubble to make themselves look scaaary.

it works, too.

that's why i always order my mayo sammiches to go.

but the gangs you have now in Chicago, or Oak Park, or wherever you live now, are the same gangs we had growing up fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years ago.

b calm
b careful
b cautious
b ware

blackstone rangers all up in heah.

altho schizophrenia doesn't really entail dual personae, one element here is the contradiction between what a lotta people say they believe and what they clearly must believe.

those who attribute behavior to the _________ community (however you wanna fill in that blank) obviously feel there is such a monolithic thing somewhere. these are almost always the same people who besides denying the existence of any similar community consisting of others with the same color skin, langage, etc. as themselves, will spend hours explaining how their own community (which doesn't exist, remember) is more civil and better behaved.

ya can't have it both ways, folks. either you've gotta acknowledge and take responsibility for all the outrages perpetrated by your community AND immediately start falling in line when someone starts lecturing you about spoiling your kids or cheating on your taxes OR quit calling for others to take responsibility for everything that happens in their respective mythical community in addition to respectfully heeding advice you yourself would laff off should it be proffered by some boozed up ol usedtobe sitcom star & pudding pusher of your own race.

I was waiting for selection in a jury pool a number of years ago, in Newark, NJ, of all places. It's a predominantly black city, with predominantly white suburbs. Newark is a city that has never recovered from the 60's riots, and its administration has been stealing that city blind for years. But, I digress......

Anyway, I was waiting with a bunch of people, all of us bored to tears. I struck up a conversation with this very tall black guy, who happened to have a very prominant gold star tooth right in front. It was the tooth that drew me to him. I told him that as much as I never could understand the reasoning behind a gold tooth, it looked good on him. It was, in a way, kind of fascinating.

I think he was kind of surprised that this rather small, middle aged white woman would so boldly comment on the subject. He told me he spent thousands of dollars on it. But, in fact, he wanted to get it removed as soon as he got enough money to do so. He felt that it stereotyped him as something he didn't ever want to be.

We spent the next few hours just talking. What a nice guy. If I was only younger..................

Phil, I completely agree with you. We whities remain much more scared of blacks, than vice versa. I know I say that kind of cavalierly, in that I am not black, and therefore cannot know how blacks feel. But, there is this fear thing. And, fear becomes hate. And hate becomes blinded by fear. People should just reach out. Seize the moment. Be bold. You might just be surprised.

I live on Long Island, NY now. It is one of the most racially segregated places I have ever lived. And one thing we have to remember about segregation..... it has never been created by blacks. Always whites. Blacks merely respond to it, and the culture that segregation develops becomes yet another reason for fear. And, these segregated neigborhoods are usually fraught with poverty and crime, which is yet another result of segregation. And, because of the poverty, that's where hispanics and other non-white immigrants tend to congregate. Sometimes, you get a poor white person who moves in, just because the rent is cheap. Certainly not out of love of fellow human beings. Cheap rent. Poverty. Unemployment. Crime. Fear. Hate. Cheap rent. Poverty...............

I really believe that racism is the white man's construct. We broke it (humanity). Somehow, we have to fix it. But, it will require cooperation from all races and creeds. Fear and loathing just won't cut it. Fear and loathing merely perpetuates the problem.

Look, all I was saying is that there is no way to tell what a criminal looks like. Clothing that is associated with thugs can be coordinated to look nice too. There is no way to tell what a thug looks like.

Running ambulance in Atlanta, we had to learn quick "what a thug looks like". Those clothes may not mean much more than fashion to you, but not knowing what they mean to a banger could cost us our lives.

We literally looked to gang leaders for their nod before cutting clothes that were part of the gangs colors. We had to know which bandanas, shirts, pants (whatever) mattered and which ones didn't.

When I tell people about that it bothers them to hear. They think it means we are acknowledging and respecting the leadership positions within the gangs. I tell them it's not about respect, it's about getting the job done and staying alive doing it.

You and I may wear what we like, and you may complain about getting typecast because of what you wear. However to others, their clothes and what they say mean more to them than their lives.

You and I may wear what we like, and you may complain about getting typecast because of what you wear. However to others, their clothes and what they say mean more to them than their lives.

Absolutely true. We gotta figure out how to fix this. I just don't know............

Look, all I was saying is that there is no way to tell what a criminal looks like. Clothing that is associated with thugs can be coordinated to look nice too. There is no way to tell what a thug looks like.

Ever hear the saying "the clothes make the man"?.......

Imagine making a law that required everyone to marry someone outside their race. Now that would mix things up a bit.

True, although I wouldn't think the stares you get are as hostile as the ones I do. I could be wrong, of course.

Hostile might be better than the uncomfortable silence I often get; at least I'd know what they think, at any rate. Most of my immediate neighbors (one or two houses or so) are fine and I get along with them (the guy across the street, Earl, even lent me his lawnmower). But the ones further down the block give me the stares and glares; I suppose, if they knew me, they wouldn't, but I still get the impression from some of them that I'm not really wanted there.

You don't see any rock stars smiling either, though.

Sure you do; and even if you didn't, I think that the ratio of "threatening" album/CD covers from rock groups, even Heavy and Death Metal, would be much lower than those put out by the "thug-life" crowd of "street hoods" and 'bangers. I mean, I know I don't have to worry about Ozzy Osbourne in werewolf form attacking me while I sleep or Marilyn Manson sacrificing me to Satan. But, I also know that if I go into the wrong area, I can be attacked and killed for my skin color (or lack thereof, rather), or if I happened to be wearing the wrong color of clothing or just incidentally shot down in a drug deal gone bad, drive-by or other shooting incident. Which is more threatening?

Society has to stop thinking that these rappers are "gangstas," though. We must learn to differentiate between real gangbangers on the street and "studio gangstas" who are nothing but the products of record labels. This issue is addressed by a rather recent Terror Squad song, "Lean Back". One of its lyrics mentions how rap acts have "made gang signs commercial," and how they're being flashed by individuals who have no business claiming to know the lifestyle.

Some really are, though; Snoop Dogg is one banger who proudly rode his "street cred" (and a real talent for his particular brand of music) as a banger to fame and fortune, and still flaunts his loyalties. P. Diddy (or whatever he's calling himself these days) is another, unless I'm wrong. Now, from what I've heard, and granted, my knowledge of the rap music world is very, very limited, two who played up and somewhat exaggerrated their gang involvement were Tupac and Biggie Smalls. Did them a lot of good, huh?
I have a grudging respect for the fakers, though; they do have to be brave (or perhaps just stupid and/or greedy) to use the gang signs without being members; that could get them killed, after all.
Foreverserenity makes a good point when she says that the gangsta rappers make a bad example for the lower-income kids. They see them and their lifestyle as a gateway to fame and fortune; the kids in the ghetto see this and want the lifestyle but probably have no legitimate means to get it, so they often turn to crime and violence.
Another thing that bothers me about them is their extreme focus on materialism, wealth and sex. Then, they send them the message to "keep it real"! Who's keeping it real? The pimped-out rappers in fur coats, weighed down with twenty pounds of gold chains and teeth, surrounded by sexy women, expensive cars and waving stacks of hundred dollar bills in their videos, or the single mom/low-income family struggling to feed her/their kids and pay the bills, all the while working in everyday reality to keep their kids out of that lifestyle? It's not "real", it's terribly unreal. Rappers are the least socially responsible "celebrities", when they should be the first, considering their origins.

People think it reflects minority culture because it's coming out of a minority's mouth, and thats what I don't understand. No one thinks Eminem reflects white culture. They think he reflects his experience growing up. Why isn't the same standard applied to minority rappers? Words are words, no matter how explicit they may be. Rappers just talk about it. On the other hand, look at the porn industry, which is mostly operated by white people. They're actually doing it!!! Why aren't they stigmatized as "ho's"? Look at the mob. Look at Chicago in the time of the CVL and the first Mayor Daley and the Irish-American "social clubs." Why hasn't this come back to haunt white people like the Latin Kings continue to haunt minorities?

But the problem here, to me, is that the main "image" of minorities as angry, anti-society badasses and criminals is carried over from the 60s violence of radicals like the Black Panthers and groups like Nation of Islam, who really have never recanted their anti-white views. And we all saw that white guy dragged out of his truck and severely beaten by a crowd of blacks during the Rodney King riots. Images like these, especially since they were very, very prominently forged by blacks themselves, are hard to shake, even if you want and try to.
Instead of assimilating into society as a whole, as MLK wanted, a whoooole lot of blacks ended up following the example of his coattail rider, that con man and racist huckster Jesse Jackson, who makes a lot of George Washingtons by fomenting racial unrest and the whole cult of "victimhood" thing, instead of trying to further King's vision. This is a serious impediment to racial equality and relations. Even many whites I know who champion black views choose not to see the great progress that has been made in 40 years, and focus instead on the negatives, as so many blacks do, thanks to outright liars and manipulators like Jackson and simple head cases like Al Sharpton. Many of them steadfastly refuse even to see the many instances of mainstream reverse racism that exist, and the inherent inequalities of things like Affirmative Action and the Fair Housing Act.
As to Eminem, he's the blackest white man in the world today, in my opinion, and nothing but a punk. He's a white-trash-bred wannabe (a white guy who wants to be black, for those who don't know) who does happen to have intelligence, a definite talent for rap music and force of personality. But overall, he's just another angry rapper out there making money by cursing into a mic and setting a bad example. Though I do like some of his stuff, I do not like him. I put him in the same category as that other white-trash moron Kid Rock (who lately seems, though, to be finding a home on the country stations).
The porn industry, now.....well....I don't know where you come from, but in my neck of the woods, porn stars aren't exactly looked upon as paragons of virtue or someone you'd want to emulate. Of course, SOME of what they do might be pretty cool to emulate, but hey, you know?
Porn as a whole operates pretty far under the radar of mainstream society, unlike the whole rap music industry. You rarely, if ever, see Jenna Jameson or Justice Dimples on the cover of People or US, or promoting their latest skinflick on Jay Leno. The same can't be said for Snoop and P. Diddy.
Porn stars are seen by pretty much all and sundry as people of low to no morals and less scruples; they're well-paid but hedonistic bottom-feeders...hmmmm....sounds like some rappers, too.
Other racial stereotypes still exist, too....Italians and Sicillians still take a hit (so to speak) for being mobsters, despite the fact that the fall of the Gambino family, what, 10 years ago now, pretty much crushed the Italian and Sicillian mafia in America. Irish people are still seen as drunken brawlers. Hillbillies are kidded about inbreeding and their naive, hayseed ways; English people are noted for stuffiness and bad teeth; the Germans are still seen as Nazis, the French surrender to everything....the list goes on.
Stereotypes exist for a reason, though; they're always based in at least some fact somewhere in the past. They're not just conjured up out of nothing and pinned to a people for no reason. They do come from somewhere.

I don't think minorities are doing anything to themselves, I just think that what we do is perceived in the wrong way. I should be able to write a violent, sexually explicit story if I want to. I should be able to wear baggy clothing and a crooked hat if I want to. I should be able to exchange an elaborate, visually oriented greeting with my friends if I want to. And I should be able to do all of these things, and in fact profit from them, without someone telling me that I'm inviting observers to look down on me, and minorities in general.

You might not be a banger, but, as a few of the other posters here pointed out, if the clothes, language and gestures you may favor are also favored by bangers, you will get that image by association. I agreed with little whip when she pointed out that you'd make a judgment call based on the clothing worn by certain whites. Image is everything, my friend.

Last I checked emotions are one of those things we ALL have in common

---Helix

Yes, but don't forget that emotions are also tempered by experience. What pisses you off for whatever reason might not bother me at all, and vice versa, because we've had different experiences. How we intellectually process our emotions varies, too, from preson-to-person.

I have to put this in: I literally just read an article in the morning paper about the planned construction of a Wal-Mart here on the South End (large black population). There are already three Wally Worlds and a Sam's Club here in town, and some people question the need for another. Many small businesses were driven out of business by the Wal-Marts already here, and there's a lot of local debate over whether putting one on the South Side will be an economic positive or negative for the community.
Our councilman here in this district, a prominent black gentleman, favors putting it in, because he feels, perhaps correctly that those blacks on this end of town shouldn't have to drive five miles to shop at Wal-Mart. More importantly, though, he also feels that having the store here would keep the blacks in the game, economically speaking, and able to resist the "concentrated efforts of other groups, THOSE WHO WOULD KEEP THEM IN THEIR PLACE." That's a quote, people.

It's also an example of what I think I will call, from here on out, the "Jackson Effect".

I really believe that racism is the white man's construct. We broke it (humanity). Somehow, we have to fix it. But, it will require cooperation from all races and creeds. Fear and loathing just won't cut it. Fear and loathing merely perpetuates the problem.

--dabe

The first sentence is one of the most outrageously leftwing statements I've ever seen on here. You would think that. Dabe, segregation based on various factors, including race, has been around since the beginning of civilization, and probably before. I wouldn't expect you to realize that, though, since you hate your own race and see them as the source of all evil in the world.
Blacks do segregate themselves, too, and willingly. Ever been to a high school lunchroom, for example?
The rest of the statement I kind of agree with, except that minorities need to stop creating images of themselves and their culture that make them seem less than welcoming. See my replies to Phil in post #40 for an example of what I mean.

And racist itself. Even the so called "peace-loving native americans" were slaughtering each other long before we got here. By her statement, you'd think racism was invented by white america, period, and only in the past 200 years or so. Ugh.

---LW

All very true...especially the "Ugh".

But, there is this fear thing. And, fear becomes hate. And hate becomes blinded by fear.

---Dabe

Dabe, are you Yoda?

"Fear leads to anger...anger leads to hate...hate leads to suffering."---Yoda the Jedi Master to Anakin Skywalker, Star Wars Ep. 1

Racial division is nothing more than a marketing scheme, culture is "controlled" by the moguls of entertainment, that is Sony and Disney folks, and they have no desire to facilitate racial harmony, simply because it would minimize their respective marketshares.

Division perpetuates diversity, and that diversity continually presents new markets. I'm not that old that I remember one radio station that played Country, R&B, Rock, and Oldies, it was the everything to everybody station.
Now, in the same market area ( that has not grown in census ) there are 12 different stations providing for every genre imaginable, each advertising to its on niche, created by those same entertainment moguls.......

The Irrational "White Guilt" energizes only one market division, complete with an entire sub economy targeted predominately at the "Poor community" and specifically at uneducated, inner city black family(?).
I feed at this trough daily, and it's created by a Social Sevices System that requires an endless stream of "victims" to maintain its existence.

The country division perpetuates the divide as well, with "Blue Collar TV", the Nashville network, good ol' boys, and the 4WD required pick up. This market provides customers for purveyors of all things country....then there's middle america market, getting it's materialistic cues from shows such as "Desperate Housewives" and every other big production movie ever made.

I could go on and on, but I'd just continue to ramble, it's no conspiracy theory to imagine, these people control what we see, do, and perceive. To minimize there contribution to the lack of harmony is to falsely consider that we, the people, control what they produce.....

Phil, I completely agree with you. We whities remain much more scared of blacks, than vice versa.

I really believe that racism is the white man's construct. We broke it (humanity). Somehow, we have to fix it. But, it will require cooperation from all races and creeds. Fear and loathing just won't cut it. Fear and loathing merely perpetuates the problem.

I don't know you, so I'm not going to accuse you of anything. I will ask you, however, given that you are a Jewish woman, if you always claim to be white, or only do so selectively. Are you someone who claims to be white in order to sound self-flagellating instead of an anti-white racist? White people are mostly devils--but not me. I'm one of the good ones. I'm embarrassed by them.

I live on Long Island, NY now. It is one of the most racially segregated places I have ever lived.

That's quite simple to fix. You are free to move to a less segregated locale, are you not?

And one thing we have to remember about segregation..... it has never been created by blacks. Always whites. Blacks merely respond to it, and the culture that segregation develops becomes yet another reason for fear.

That's a very lacking demographic model you allude to. And very dated as well. I don't know what the Latin American immigration model looks like in NYC, but in much of the Southwest, and in some parts of the Midwest, and perhaps even the South, Blacks are fleeing their neighborhoods as more and more Hispanics move in. Compton, CA, notorious as the Mecca of West Coast rap, is now a majority Hispanic city, ruled by black politicians who resent the influx of newcomers. The Los Angeles Riots in 1992 reflected strong anti-Korean and anti-Hispanic sentiments in addition to anti white and anti-police. On the Northwest Side of Chicago, Puerto Ricans in the Humboldt Park neighborhood are packing up and moving out as the influx of Mexicans and Central Americans continues.

When large scale attempts at demographic change are attempted in a neighborhood, all races hav shown the same tendencies--fight and/or flight.

An excerpt concerning stereotypes from Dinesh D'Souza's Myth of the Racist Cabbie

On one point the liberal paradigm about group generalizations is sound: people's perceptions of others are always filtered through the lens of their own prior experience. But the liberal understanding cannot explain how particular traits come to be identified with particular groups. Only because group traits have an empirical basis in shared experience can we invoke them without fear of serious contradiction. Think how people would react if someone said, ``Koreans are lazy, '' or ``Hispanics are constantly trying to find ways to make money. '' Despite the prevalence of anti-Semitism, Jews are rarely accused of stupidity. Blacks are never accused of being tight with a dollar, or of conspiring to take over the world. By reversing stereotypes we can see how their persistence relies, not simply on the assumptions of the viewer, but also on the characteristics of the group being described. This is no case for group traits having a biological foundation. Probably the vast majority of group traits are entirely cultural, the distilled product of many years of shared experience. Yet prejudices and stereotypes are not intended to explain the origins of group traits, only to take into account their existence. Nor is this an argument to emphasize negative traits. Stereotypes can be negative or positive. Indeed the same stereotype can be interpreted favorably or unfavorably. One can deplore Roman machismo or admire Roman manliness; deride Spanish superstition or exalt Spanish piety; ridicule English severity or cherish English self-control. In each of these interpretations, we see a single set of facts, a different set of values. William Helmreich, in The Things They Say Behind Your Back, takes up the issue of whether there is a rational basis for group stereotypes. Helmreich finds some stereotypes that are clearly false. During the Middle Ages, for example, apparently many Christians took religious polemic literally and came to believe that Jews have horns. Clearly this was not a perception destined to last: one has only to encounter a few Jews to discover that they do not, in fact, possess horns. Helmreich takes up other stereotypes, however, such as the view that many Nobel laureates are Jewish, or that the Mafia is largely made up of Italians, or that the Japanese tend to be xenophobic and nationalistic, or that many Irishmen and American Indians drink enormous quantities of alcohol. Basically Helmreich finds that these perceptions are confirmed by the data. Of all the stereotypes he considers, Helmreich concludes that ``almost half the stereotypes have a strong factual basis.'' Thus the liberal assumptions that groups do not differ and that group generalizations are irrational turn out to be wrong. Indeed they generate a civil-rights paradigm which is at variance with most people's direct observation of the world. We would do better to acknowledge the reality of group traits and ask how we should act on it.

Don't insult Yoda like that!

WTF???? So, tell me, who's carrying crap from one thread to another? Shall I call in Karma, and have her run interference? Eat shit and die, whipsy.

Reply #53 By: dabe - 5/10/2005 5:40:34 PM

--Its cause you're too tall, [J/K]

--IMO, a majority of people here are guilty[including me, and i apologize to all to whom i have said things to] , its just cause of the conflict of interests, i say, ignore it, and go on, don't even reply...

yes, this is a problem. nice to hear someone saying something. my idiot friends are just making it worse. they bunch closer together and link arms whenever a black guy walks by. one of them is always saying that it's all blacks and mexicans in jail. which is especially stupid, as she's mexican. she likes to think she's white like her mother. it makes her feel superior.

But the liberal understanding cannot explain how particular traits come to be identified with particular groups. Only because group traits have an empirical basis in shared experience can we invoke them without fear of serious contradiction. Think how people would react if someone said, ``Koreans are lazy, '' or ``Hispanics are constantly trying to find ways to make money. '' Despite the prevalence of anti-Semitism, Jews are rarely accused of stupidity. Blacks are never accused of being tight with a dollar, or of conspiring to take over the world. By reversing stereotypes we can see how their persistence relies, not simply on the assumptions of the viewer, but also on the characteristics of the group being described

are you sure this isn't a quote from 'myth of the racist' by gran d. ragon?

one of the funniest things i can recall from the old 'national lampoon' was an ec comic parody featuring george wallace back before bremer put him in a wheelchair.
it was called somethin like 'tales of the old spook' and was narrated by a zombie-lookin black man who was wearing a sorta uniform cap and leaning out a window in the first panel.

the story began with then-governor of alabama wallace, who'd been trying to figure out a way to remain in office for an additional term forbidden to him by law, deciding to have his wife, lurleen, run in his place. following her election, however, things go downhill for poor ol george who finds himself in a maid's uniform waiting on madame guvnor. outraged, he contacts a renegade scientist who formerly worked for the tobacco institute from whom he obtains carcasses of some of the zillions of rats who died from cancer as the result of experiments to prove cigarettes were safe. since he's also the statehouse cook, he begins to substitute rat for other ingredients in dishes such as 'spaghetti & ratballs', 'rat tartare' and my personal favorite, 'rat jello' (each cube hadda lil tail). his plan succeeds and lurleen dies of cancer...and george is once again in office. eventually he himself dies and finds himself waiting to be transported to eternity. a schoolbus pulls up and the door opens to reveal the driver--our narrator, the old spook--who orders a horrified george to get on and go to the back of the bus. next stop: hell. a hell fulla klan victims and bloody freedom marchers ready to torment him for infinity.

in real life, wallace eventually renounced his strident 'segrah-gay-shun fo'evah' past and spent his last years working on behalf of the black citizens of alabama.

the reason i subjected you to all that is to suggest a theory that occured to me while reading thru this thread. i'm specifically referring to those which the writers actually do sound somewhat paranoid (paranoia being a condition of unreasonable fear).

despite claims to the contrary, dabe is very right in her assertion that the racial divide here was created by white people and it was white people who perpetuated it for several hundred years to their great advantage.

those of you who are about to start responding with outraged statements that it isnt fair to blame them because they never owned slaves, made anyone use the 'colored' washrooms, etc. etc., will please contain themselves for a moment or two more.

your arguments fall flat for a couple reasons, chief among them being the facts that history doesn't exist in a vacuum and that one cannot simply wipe away the past and start over clean. you may or may not have known any black, brown, red, yellow, purple or green people growing up. you may have had your ass beaten from the first day you ventured outdoors til you graduated from high school by those same black, brown, etc. people. you may have even helped sign up voters in mississippi in 1964. none of those things mitigate the suffering inflicted by the majority on the various minorities for far too many years.

your black/brown/red/yellow/pink neighbors may never have been slaves or made to eat out behind a restaurant--if they're under the age of 40. they may or may not have had anyone insult them directly to their faces or kick their asses from the day they first stepped outside. but there's a very good likelihood--if they arent blind and can hear--they know far too well what far too many think of them in the collective.

i know you're outraged because they don't know you or your thoughts (in some cases, that works to your benefit). i know it pisses you off that despite 40 years of official equality, some of the formerly oppressed still seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

as if you wouldn't.

as far as that paranoia goes, here's my theory: perhaps you haven't always been as reasonable as you are today...and perhaps you've looked down on others because of their ethnicity...and perhaps instead of liberal guilt being the problem, it's collective guilt (whether you wanna accept that or not) or even personal guilt, that's coloring your perspective.

sure there are dangerous people all around us. but i didnt see any of those who identify themselves as white expressing concern about those dangerous people who are members of their own race. nor their neighbors who don't immediately respond to their greetings. and let's face it, they have absolutely no justification for being less than eager to make your acquaintance.

unless, of course, they ARE considering the dangerous people all around them...and you fit their preconceived notion of who they are.

consider this a postscript to my previous comment.

while i'll be the first to agree i don't know anything about any of you except for what you've posted, i've been a white american long enough to know how rare it is to find another white american who doesn't buy into any racial stereotypes or who'll object to another white american disparaging members of other races or who comes from a household in which both parents and all siblings truly consider members of other races to be their equals in all regards.

if you're one of them, i wonder why you havent posted a comment in this thread.

... or who comes from a household in which both parents and all siblings truly consider members of other races to be their equals in all regards. if you're one of them, i wonder why you havent posted a comment in this thread.

Kingbee, I have posted already. Both my parents were of the 50's bohemian, and later hippy ilk. When I was a kid in the 60's, my father (particularly) would take us to book drives for southern black schools. We'd go to equality marches together, as family outings. Our family dentist was a black man, which was very unusual back then, I think, and more unusual that he would have whites for clients.

If it wasn't tough enough being Jewish and growing up in a predominantly Catholic town in Connecticut, we stayed with my grandparents every summer in Rockaway Beach, NY, which was predominantly Irish Catholics, and where my grandparents owned summer bungalows. During the summers, my sister and I would usually hang around with a friend who happened to live in the projects, and who happened to be Puerto Rican. The Catholic whites on the block proceeded to shun us because we hung around with spiks, were Jewish, and therefore commie pinkos. They also protested vehemently when blacks from the inner city would take the subway out to Rockaway and go to their "white only" beach. Loverly, don't ya think?

My upbringing heightened my awareness of racism in this country. Because of the racial tensions all around, I have fought hard with myself to not be sucked into racist thinking. Another story - when I was a construction inspector in NYC, I was the only person on a job site one rainy day. Up drove a van and about 8-10 black men poured out and started walking towards my car. My first reaction was fear. But, in spite of it, I got out of my car and approached them. The spokesperson for the group asked if the contractor was onsite, and told me that they were members of the Black Coalition looking for work. They were essentially friendly, and we talked about the project, then they thanked me left. I felt a bit ashamed for feeling afraid. Had they been white, I know I would not have felt that way. It's so hard, sometimes, to not succumb to racial fear.

So, that's one tale of my childhood. Both my parents are deceased. Their last house was in the predominantly black and hispanic neighborhood in Lancaster, PA, and they were friends with the entire neighborhood. They both fought racism till the day they died. I'd like to think that it rubbed off on me.

It's really sad that you can't handle even a lighthearted jest without lapsing into hate and vulgarity. Really, really sad.

Coming from you, it's never lighthearted. You're a liar. As for vulgarity, there are different kinds of vulgarity, and you are definitely one of the most holistically vulgar people I have ever encountered. That's what's so sad. Not that I said the word "shit".