Bahu Virupaksha

GUNS KILL: LET THERE BE CONTROLS

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GUNS KILL: LET THERE BE CONTROLS

How many Columbines will it take, before the USA bans hand guns

from JoeUser Forums
The recent killing in the shools at Minnesota is only the latest in a long and dreary stream of killings. After each such massacre there is the ususal voive of reason and moderation asking for gun control. The sane voices are soon drowned by a cacophony of noises emanating fro the gun lobby. The time has come to move a constitutional ammendment to out law the sale of guna to any one under thwe age of 30. The guns sold must be registered at the AFT of the Federal Government. The sale of hand weapons that can be consealed on the body must be outlawed altogether. For game hunting guns of lesser calibre may be considered, but assault rifles must be strictly out of bounds to young people. Serious crmes with hand guns must carry a heavier punishment, including prison without parole.

The time has come to consider seriously gun control. The war in Iraq will actually increase the level of violence as young men trained to open fire without any provocastion try ti reenter civilliam life.
politics
17,120 views 54 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
People with guns kill people.


People WITHOUT guns kill people too! Quit blaming the tool!

Someone hits you in the head with a steel pipe you'll be just as dead as if they would have shot you!

You can not hold the "industry" accountable for how many firearms are sold. That is just plain ignorant. And NO MATTER what *you* say not just anyone can go buy a gun. Do yourself a LARGE favor and educate yourself. Go to a gunstore, you don't have to buy anything just ask to be shown what steps you have to take to purchase a hand gun. As for flooding a city....BS!!! New York and DC have the toughest laws in the US for purchasing pistols. Yet they are also the ones with the most handguns on the street. Don't take my word for it, ask a NY city cop.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
Owning a gun is not a right, just like owning cocaine is not a right--they're both dangerous and they both do nothing but hurt people.


You could not be more wrong if you tried! It most CERTAINLY is a right! Can you say 2nd amendment?

The only reason people own guns is to kill


More BS! Ever hear of competitive shooting?
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Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
Stop flooding the cities with guns, and we just may go back to having less guns.


Wow talk about true ignorance.....


First off, in cities with the most extreme gun laws (D.C., NYC, etc) crime (including violent crime) is the highest..

In states that have CCP (concealed carry permits) crime has dropped consierbly.

Another myth, the Assaut Weapons Ban was a good law

Fact, it was a joke from the begining....it banned firearms based merely on it look...not it's caliber or ammo capacity or it mode of fire...or the fact that full-auto assault weapons were already covered under the 1933 machine gun ban....the AW ban was pure fear tactics...so glad it died a wimpering death.

If some prissy anti-gun nut did try to take away my right to own firearms..which I do...I may not shoot his ass but I'd certainly pistol whip him

One final line...in the statistics the anti-gun nuts tend to point to regarding the large number of deaths via gun violence...they tend to omit on purpose that a large majority are criminals who met the wrong end of a potential victim's gun. So I guess we should get rid of all private firearms...afterall even criminals have a right to go to 'work' without fear.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
Banning guns to reduce crime would be as mindless as banning cameras to reduce child porn.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
Greetings Bahu Virupaksha.... do you ever wish you had not hit the button?


How 'bout it, Do you wish you had never hit that
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
Again, the Left ignores the fact that the vast majority of guns that "flood the inner cities" are already sold illegally, and that the majority of guns used in crimes were acquired illegally.

So, in order to make a plea for more gun laws, they have to ignore how ineffectual their prohibition mentality already is...
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
The bottom line is that a gun isn't responsible for killing those people. A person who used a gun is responsible. Big difference. Thousands of people are killed every year in car crashes. Yet no one is running around demanding that we ban cars or even stop making fast ones. Gun control is just another liberal excuse for people who aren't responsible. Hold individuals accountable for their actions. Please, don't punish the rest of us who have done nothing wrong.


When one thinks about it, I can't help but think of Bakerstreet's article about blaming the victim. In this case, the gun control crowd wants to blame the gun owners for the illegal actions of people who have stolen guns from law enforcement and etc. because it's easier to blame somebody like them, who are responsible, then to blame the murderers.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do not think that there is a Right and Left side to this issue. There is a great deal of evidence that most of the killings done gby guns are done at the spur of the moment and since the weapon is available they just grab it and do the job. Making it difficult to buy weapons is the only solution. I am not saying the citizens should not bear aRMS, BUT THEY MUST DEMONSTRATE RESPONSIBLE CONDUCT.This means people below the age of 25 cannot buy and hold weapons. Adulte owning weapons must be encouraged to keep their guns out of the reach of children and adoloscents. People like DR Miller seem to think that abuse is a sustitute for asrgument. Unfortunately it is not.
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
This means people below the age of 25 cannot buy and hold weapons. Adulte owning weapons must be encouraged to keep their guns out of the reach of children and adoloscents.


My best friend is an ex-Marine sniper who served in Desert Storm. He loves firearms, and has quite a collection, which he keeps locked up, unloaded, in a beautiful wooden gun cabinet in his living room. He encourages his children to learn about weapon safety and respect for guns.
His son and daughter each own, respectively, their own .22 caliber rifle and pistol, and his son even has a shotgun, a birthday gift from his grandfather.
The boy is 11, the girl 9. They are well-adjusted and normal. They do well is school and have normal likes and dislikes for kids their age; his son is fascinated with Star Wars and dinosaurs, and the daughter with whatever little girls are fascinated with.
The secret, my friend says, is not for more laws to be passed, but for people who have guns to be more intelligent and cautious about how they use/care for them and in how they pass on that knowledge to their kids. I agree.

You can't punish millions of law-abiding people for the sad, violent and tragic actions of a few.
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
Again, the Left ignores the fact that the vast majority of guns that "flood the inner cities" are already sold illegally, and that the majority of guns used in crimes were acquired illegally.
---BakerStreet

Exactly.
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
What is happening to these kids at home and school is the real problem but there is no simple answer to those issues so we will just point the finger at gun control.
--JillUser

So true...you deserve an insightful for that one.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dabe, I really dislike you. You are the total opposite of everything I believe in. How do you MANAGE it!? I can't find one nice thing about your arguments or anything to half-way compromise with....


Feelings are quite mutual, I assure you.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top

Laws don't stop criminals.  Enforcement of laws do.

We have plenty of gun laws. The problem is a lack of enforcement.

Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let's see, the shooter in this situation stole his grandfather's gun, murdered his grandfather, took a gun to school, murdered a security guard, then murdered 7 kids and killed himself.

Yet you still come on your blog and make innane remarks about how "laws" would have prevented this tragedy. Do you really think that a kid who would do all of the above would think twice out of fear of breaking a "gun law"?

Quit being a total knee-jerk moron and think about what you're saying!
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do not think that there is a Right and Left side to this issue. There is a great deal of evidence that most of the killings done gby guns are done at the spur of the moment and since the weapon is available they just grab it and do the job. Making it difficult to buy weapons is the only solution. I am not saying the citizens should not bear aRMS, BUT THEY MUST DEMONSTRATE RESPONSIBLE CONDUCT.This means people below the age of 25 cannot buy and hold weapons. Adulte owning weapons must be encouraged to keep their guns out of the reach of children and adoloscents. People like DR Miller seem to think that abuse is a sustitute for asrgument. Unfortunately it is not.


You get abuse from me when you put out garbage that shows you have done zero research on what you are trying to talk about. Like this subject and your original post. Most times you try to talk about something that you have no understanding of. Like gun control. You obviously do not live in the US so the *only* info your getting is from the media (EU or otherwise). So you talk without knowing. First off you have NOT been able to buy a firearm at the spur of the moment fo quite a long while. You first have to pass a NICS check and "most" states have a waiting period. The 25 year old bit is just another leftwing talking point. I have owned firearms since I was 13 and have yet to shoot someone. What this whole thing boils down to is education! Teach them about guns early and often! And most grownups are no better. More controls are NOT going to help. Stiffer penalties might. People need to make sure it VERY difficult for a child to get their hands on a gun. No matter how difficult you make it though, some will find a way around it. Goes to an old saying: Locks are made to keep honest people honest
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yet you still come on your blog and make innane remarks about how "laws" would have prevented this tragedy. Do you really think that a kid who would do all of the above would think twice out of fear of breaking a "gun law"?


I agree here.....if the grandfather had taken more care to keep his guns locked up or off the premises, it might not have happened.
But then, if the kid was really that determined, he'd just have gotten the guns elsewhere.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I agree here.....if the grandfather had taken more care to keep his guns locked up or off the premises, it might not have happened.
But then, if the kid was really that determined, he'd just have gotten the guns elsewhere."


or he would have downloaded instructions and whipped something up himself? Funny how people scream about how assault weapons are the terrorists weapon of choice, and yet when you go to nations brimming with $20 AK-47s, the weapon of choice is the bomb.

I wonder how popular chemistry class would become if these deranged loners couldn't get guns? I wonder how many more people would die?

What I don't have to wonder about is whether they would kill someone or not. Any "child" that has the ability to pre-plan and stand and murder someone isn't going to just shrug the situation off. Not because his first choice in hardware isn't available.

We should try and figure out what was wrong with this kid, and try to figure out how to notice it sooner. Every minute we blame the gun is a minute we leave kids like that roaming around with the will to murder. The tools they use are irrelevant.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
We should try and figure out what was wrong with this kid, and try to figure out how to notice it sooner. Every minute we blame the gun is a minute we leave kids like that roaming around with the will to murder. The tools they use are irrelevant.


I wonder what his family life was like. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't seem to recall things like this happening in the old days, when mom was home and dad was working, you know? Too bad things are so much more complicated now.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
Should we now require everyone who wishes to purchase gasoline to demonstrate "responsible conduct?"


Looks like I may not be able to buy more Zippo lighter fluid....
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I wonder what his family life was like. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't seem to recall things like this happening in the old days, when mom was home and dad was working, you know? Too bad things are so much more complicated now."


I think if you go down that road too far you are simply shifting the blame to different victims. This kid walked around with the propensity to do this, and the hate to back it up. There has to be some way that we can find out what to look for so that this doesn't happen so often.

To me, the issue isn't blame. The only one to blame is the killer. The issue is prevention. We see after decades that gun laws don't stop people from committing these acts. They either acquire them illegally or find other methods to kill.

Too many people come from single parent homes, latch-key situations, abusive families, and never even have the urge to commit an act like this. Other kids end up monsters with great families. There has to be some "switch" that they have in common.

Has anyone else heard that this was another "prozac" killing? Worth looking into.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
Has anyone else heard that this was another "prozac" killing? Worth looking into.


Yeah, I heard that on the news, that he was on Prozac. Maybe so.
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
kids their age; his son is fascinated with Star Wars and dinosaurs, and the daughter with whatever little girls are fascinated with.The secret, my friend says, is not for more laws to be passed, but for people who have guns to be more intelligent and cautious about how they use/care


We have plenty of gun laws. The problem is a lack of enforcement.Bonus Rating: Trolling Insig


From the post I have take two different positions. First, why should a father allow his children to handle weapon so young. I feel that children need not handle guns when they are 7 or ii years old. I am of course with you when yoy say that the parents theah their children to be responsible in handling them.

Yes enforcement is always the problem. That is why I am asking for a slightly tighter regime of checks.
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes enforcement is always the problem. That is why I am asking for a slightly tighter regime of checks.


You just don't seem to get it, do you? We already have a BUNCH of checks (laws) and they are NOT working. Why? Because they are not being inforced properly. We do NOT need more checks, we need enforcement on the ones we have. Shootings are done by criminals. And for the most part they don't give a poo about them. Take the shootings at Columbine. The guys that did that were in DIRECT violation of over 17 state AND federal statutes (and most of them major felonies). Can you honestly say that more laws would have made one bit of difference?
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I feel that children need not handle guns when they are 7 or ii years old. I am of course with you when yoy say that the parents theah their children to be responsible in handling them."


Given that he didn't shoot himself or anyone else accidently, I assume he had been taught to handle guns responsibly. You seem to be saying that kids have more of a propensity to kill people. Have you checked the statistics lately? I think you'll find a lot more murdering grownups...

Yes enforcement is always the problem. That is why I am asking for a slightly tighter regime of checks.


What check would have stopped this? The "is your grandchild deranged" background check? Given that the background check was on the owner, the grandfather, I don't see how a more stringent one would have changed anything.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
Guns DO NOT kill. They are in a PERMANENT MINERALISED STATE. We should put the people who use them feloniously into a PERMANENT VEGETATIVE STATE and, then, pull the plug.