GUNS KILL: LET THERE BE CONTROLS

This is stupid.  NO hand guns were used here or at Columbine, so banning them would not have made one damn bit of difference.

Sheesh, dont you even read what you opinionate on?

GUNS KILL: LET THERE BE CONTROLS How many Columbines will it take, before the USA bans hand guns By: Bahu Virupaksha on Discussion on History and Politics Posted: 3/24/2005 4:22:27 AM The recent killing in the shools at Minnesota is only the latest in a long and dreary stream of killings. After each such massacre there is the ususal voive of reason and moderation asking for gun control. The sane voices are soon drowned by a cacophony of noises emanating fro the gun lobby. The time has come to move a constitutional ammendment to out law the sale of guna to any one under thwe age of 30. The guns sold must be registered at the AFT of the Federal Government. The sale of hand weapons that can be consealed on the body must be outlawed altogether. For game hunting guns of lesser calibre may be considered, but assault rifles must be strictly out of bounds to young people. Serious crmes with hand guns must carry a heavier punishment, including prison without parole. The time has come to consider seriously gun control. The war in Iraq will actually increase the level of violence as young men trained to open fire without any provocastion try ti reenter civilliam life.

Are you even an american? When are you going to grow a brain and quit being such a butthead?

The kid in Minnesota killed his grandfather (possibly with the grandfather's own gun) who was a tribal police officer and took his squad car and weapons.  Are you saying even law enforcers shouldn't be able to defend themselves?

  I think you are nuts!  Speaking of nuts, many people have died due to nut allergies so we should outlaw nuts too.  Oh, cars kill people every day.  Better outlaw cars, they are deadly weapons.  And we are teaching 16yr olds to drive those weapons without provocation!!  How many accidents will it take before USA outlaws motor vehicles?!

hey....baseball bats, crowbars, knives....just about anything a person can get their hands on can kill someone....I think what we need to do, is just outlaw ppl until they are 30 years old or older....

There are enough blatent flaws in the arguement above to show that this is someone who has *zero* knowledge concerning guns, American firearm laws, and gun crime.

He's talking about the AFT(sic, I assume ATF), suggesting "lesser" caliburs for hunting firearms when most assault rifles are of lesser calibur (5.56mm, 9mm, etc.). He suggests we register guns when we have been doing that since before I was born. He suggests stiffer penalties for crimes committed with a handgun, which we already have. He suggests making it illegal to sell guns to people in their 20's, though they are legally recognized as adults.

And not a single suggestion that would have prevented the case he is talking about. Not unlike most people who erupt every time there is a shooting, as though no one is ever killed any other way...

The fact is most Americans, and most people in other countries, unless they are interested in guns, have no clue what the laws are where they live. I have talked to people in other nations that were SURE it was illegal to own a gun, and upon checking I found their nation's laws about as lax, and in some cases even more lax, than ours.

Amazing amount of rationalization to allow guns, of all calibers, to be bought and sold in the United States with no controls whatsoever. Sick crap. Geez, if I wanted to go out and buy a 50-caliber gun, I could. Doesn't that scare anyone? Doesn't the fact that we, as a nation, have the highest number of gun deaths in the modern world bother anyone? Not by one or two, but by thousands and thousand of shootings and deaths. We have become a wild west nation, yet seem to take umbrage when another country wants new guns. We are an embarassing bunch of hypocrits, all based on some loose interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Whether an American or another world citizen takes issue with this should not matter. Making it an issue is merely deflecting the issue, which some here seem to love to do.

Thank you, Bahu.

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.  Make it harder to get the ammo!

Seriously, the thing that some of you always seem to overlook is law is not the problem.  People who get their weapons legally aren't the problem.  The kid in Minnesota stole the guns from his grandfather who was a law enforcer.  I will agree whole heartedly that society as a whole has some serious problems.  Sorry to say that gun control laws aren't going to make problems like those school shootings go away.  Hell, the school even had a metal detector at the front door and the kid shot his way through. 

What is happening to these kids at home and school is the real problem but there is no simple answer to those issues so we will just point the finger at gun control.

The time has come to consider seriously gun control.

We have gun control already. We need to enfore what we have instead of making more laws.

People who get their weapons legally aren't the problem.

Exactly.

Make it harder to get the ammo!

Where I live, you have to have a FOID (Firearm Owners IDentification)card in order to even buy ammo, let alone buy a gun. In the state I used to live in, you could buy gun without a permit, and getting a concealed carry permit was relatively easy (I have one). But, as Jill said, people who obtain firearms legitimately aren't the problem....

Americans love their guns. All kinds of them. But one thing about this particular event, I'd have to say accessible guns are the problem. If that crapwad cop had his gun locked away there would be no massacre, unless the kid beat the hell out of people with the Sunday New York Times. And let's not BS anyone out there. Guns kill people, and people use the guns. It's not the person that kills. It's not the gun alone that kills. It's the person using the gun that kills. So they're both to blame.

Amazing amount of rationalization to allow guns, of all calibers, to be bought and sold in the United States with no controls whatsoever. Sick crap. Geez, if I wanted to go out and buy a 50-caliber gun, I could. Doesn't that scare anyone? Doesn't the fact that we, as a nation, have the highest number of gun deaths in the modern world bother anyone? Not by one or two, but by thousands and thousand of shootings and deaths. We have become a wild west nation, yet seem to take umbrage when another country wants new guns. We are an embarassing bunch of hypocrits, all based on some loose interpretation of the Second Amendment. Whether an American or another world citizen takes issue with this should not matter. Making it an issue is merely deflecting the issue, which some here seem to love to do. Thank you, Bahu.

You need to get a grip! No where in ANY of the replies does ANYONE suggest selling firearms willy-nilly with no controls. See according to people like yourself the 2nd amendment pertains to a "group" of people yet the rest of the amendments pertain to individuals? What kind of lunacy thinking is that?
As far as being able to buy a 50 cal firearm, having them out where people can buy them does not scare me. What scares me is having them where "you" could buy one! On to last point. As Bahu is not american he/she has absolutely NO say whether or not we should be able to buy guns or not. As what they're talking about are american laws! BTW your ignorance is showing again. We as a nation do NOT take umburage over some other nation wanting new guns. Guns do NOT equal weapons of mass destruction! Nukes,chem and bio weapons are what we're concerned with. And get off the wild west crap because that's just what it is.....crap!

Guns kill people, and people use the guns. It's not the person that kills. It's not the gun alone that kills. It's the person using the gun that kills. So they're both to blame.

Guns do NOT kill people! People kill people! Firearms are a tool. And like ANY tool can be misused! Auto's kill more per year than firearms do yet I don't hear you saying we should be getting rid of them. Case in point: tool being misused. I've NEVER seen any firearm pull it's own trigger.

As far as being able to buy a 50 cal firearm, having them out where people can buy them does not scare me. What scares me is having them where "you" could buy one!

You're a freakin' idiot. What's so much scarier about me buying a gun than you, you dipshit. That's my point. Not that you or I can buy one, but that ANYONE can buy one.

~~~~The time has come to consider seriously gun control. The war in Iraq will actually increase the level of violence as young men trained to open fire without any provocastion try ti reenter civilliam life.~~~~

And where, exactly, is your proof of this?
I know several men who've come back from Iraq, and none of them are inclined to "open fire without any provocation".

There is gun control; we have thousands of laws on the books, and gosh, people still die from guns stolen from their law-abiding owners and/or purchased illegally.
The laws don't bother criminals, genius, that's why they're criminals.
You know, the anti-gun nuts cry so loudly every time something like this happens. More laws! Take the guns away! They're a danger!

It's not like you see automatic weapons hanging from the shoulders on everyday people in the street. This isn't Palestine, for God's sake; hey, that's a thought...why doesn't anyone on the Left ever call for stricter gun control there? More laws! Take away their guns!
Maybe there'd be less death on both sides, huh? A new crusade for the Left!

As far as being able to buy a 50 cal firearm, having them out where people can buy them does not scare me. What scares me is having them where "you" could buy one! You're a freakin' idiot. What's so much scarier about me buying a gun than you, you dipshit. That's my point. Not that you or I can buy one, but that ANYONE can buy one.

AFTER they pass their background checks. You can't just waltz in anymore and get a firearm without it. It's because of your barely suppressed rage and your willingness to go to war with ANYONE who differs in opinion. *You* are among the people who should NEVER have ANY access to ANY firearm! Ignorant butthead!
And BTW, not just anyone can buy one. You at the very least MUST be a US citizen over the age of consent. 18 for long guns and 21 for pistols.

" Amazing amount of rationalization to allow guns, of all calibers, to be bought and sold in the United States with no controls whatsoever. Sick crap. "

"That's my point. Not that you or I can buy one, but that ANYONE can buy one."

We have many controls, most of which you know absolutely nothing about. Why? Because you are a liar unconcerned with the truth, as you show time and time again in your responses. You lie when you say that "ANYONE" can buy a gun, probably because you are just as brainwashed by the Micheal Moore mock-umentary that he created using falsehoods and misleading statements.

Kind of like how you blog...

Geez, if I wanted to go out and buy a 50-caliber gun, I could

Yes, you could...but why would you want to? That's the thing. The only people who would buy a weapon of such destructive power would be:

1. A serious firearms collector (most of whom are well-known
to their gun dealers and have their permits in order)

OR

2. Someone who intended to use it.

Military weaponry is not exactly good for hunting, unless you like your deer burger ground up right there in the woods, or would want to lay down a layer of flak for the flock of ducks passing overhead.

" Amazing amount of rationalization to allow guns, of all calibers, to be bought and sold in the United States with no controls whatsoever. Sick crap. " We have many controls, most of which you know absolutely nothing about. Why? Because you are a liar unconcerned with the truth, as you show time and time again in your responses. You lie when you say that "ANYONE" can buy a gun, probably because you are just as brainwashed by the Micheal Moore mock-umentary that he created using falsehoods and misleading statements. Kind of like how you blog...

BINGO! Got her in one!

If there is one thing liberals love more than banning Christianity from public schools it is creating ineffective gun control laws. Despite centuries of evidence that gun control laws do not lower crime, stop violence, or make society safer in any way, liberals keep plugging away at our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. I am not going to weary you with a regurgitation of all the well known statistics showing how strict gun control laws are followed by sharp spikes in violent crime rates or with arguments asking the Left to explain its intellectual consistency behind their view that the only remedy to a failed gun control law is the creation of another gun control law just like it. The real question in the gun control debate is not the statistics or the nuances of the law but why in the first place liberals are so preoccupied with making it harder for law abiding citizens to carry a gun. Gun control laws are as old as America, stretching far back into the early Colonial period. As far as the United States as a political entity is concerned, the first gun control law came less than one year after the ratification of the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights, with the "Uniform Militia Act of 1792." In the Act, every "able bodied white male citizen" between the ages of 18 and 45 was to be enrolled in the state militia and was required to "provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition." In early America, it was not a question of "if" you had the right to bear arms, but whether you would be "required" to own a gun. This Act is significant for two reasons. First it shows the intent of the Framers was that every citizen was considered part of the militia; therefore, no citizen could have their right to bear arms curtailed by the government. Second, with the Act designating "white males" as citizens and part of the militia, it effectively denied slaves and even free African-Americans their newly declared Constitutional rights. It is quite obvious that there were many in early America who did not want slaves, or those sympathizing with their suffering, from having access to guns. Why? Well, it is pretty simple. If slaves had guns, then they would not have been slaves for much longer. Firearms would be used by slaves as a tool to overthrow their oppressors -- just as the American Colonists had done against the British -- and demand their full rights and dignity as citizens. The "Uniform Militia Act of 1792" opened a door that was used by many states to pass follow up legislation that made it illegal not just for African-Americans to carry or own a gun, but to even use one unless under orders from their "master." From its inception, gun control was a vehicle to deny basic rights, prevent self defense, and oppress citizens. Gun control laws still disproportionately regulate the African-American community, but now our benign liberal leaders want to spread the oppression about a bit more fairly. But the goal remains the same. Gun control does nothing but oppress a population, deny them basic rights, make them subservient to the government, and prevent them from changing their collective conditions at the time of their choosing, rather than at the sanction of the State. Liberals do not want you making your own decisions anymore than they did the slaves. That is their job. How can they possibly restructure society so a Republican is never elected President again, if people are running around not doing what they are told? Liberals love gun control for the simple fact that it directly impacts the most independent, self reliant, and free thinking of us, as demonstrated by our refusal to proxy our personal protection out to an unaccountable government. The goal of gun control is not to actually control guns and make the world a safer place, but to control people. It is not as important that you pass a criminal background check, so much as it is that you feel obligated to ask the state for permission to buy a gun. Liberals know gun control laws will not stop criminals, but they erode the sense of independence and self reliance of regular people until they feel that they can do nothing that does not meet government approval. Gun owners choose to protect themselves, thank you very much. They do not need government protection anymore than any of the other ill conceived plans of the Left. And that is why the liberals want to control their guns. It is the only means they have to directly control the lives of those who would otherwise go on ignoring them. Justin Darr is a freelance writer living in the Philadelphia area with his wife and twin children.

To paraphrase a comedian I was listenening to..............

If guns kill people I can blame misspelled words on my keyboard.

The bottom line is that a gun isn't responsible for killing those people. A person who used a gun is responsible. Big difference. Thousands of people are killed every year in car crashes. Yet no one is running around demanding that we ban cars or even stop making fast ones. Gun control is just another liberal excuse for people who aren't responsible. Hold individuals accountable for their actions. Please, don't punish the rest of us who have done nothing wrong.

PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, CONTROL THEM ALL!!!

Does that make anymore sense?

I think the reason Lefties refuse to acknowledge the fact that we ALREADY HAVE GUN CONTROL, is that they don't want to admit that the controls that have been put in place haven't reduced gun crime a bit. If people knew that, they might be less apt to blame the gun, or the victim, instead of the criminals.

To me, this is a lost opportunity for a reasonable Liberal rant. Are they bitching about what needs to be done to care for kids like this? Are they complaining about the plight of education? Are they talking about Native American issues? School security?

Nope, they skip it all and address the hunk of metal the guy used.

Gun control is more than just regulating guns and citizens. it's also about regulating the industry. Hold industry accountable for the amount of guns that flood the market. Regulate the amount of guns that any one person can buy, and that includes those who buy and sell at gun shows.

Stop flooding the cities with guns, and we just may go back to having less guns. All these lame excuses about "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is just foolish rationale. There was a time when a score was settled by bloodying your opponents nose. Now that guns are so prevalent, and yes, anyone can buy them, it's become the norm for a kid to just pull a gun and shoot the guy who may have insulted his manhood.

As for the MN shooting, I do believe that the grandfather may have shouldered some blame, in that his grandson obviously had access to his guns, but he shot his grandfather first with another gun.

People with guns kill people.

The only reason people own guns is to kill. Even if you don't consider hunting as killing, is it really so important to you that you be able to hunt that you are willing to risk people's lives for it? Doesn't sound like compassionate conservativism to me. Owning a gun is not a right, just like owning cocaine is not a right--they're both dangerous and they both do nothing but hurt people.

Gun control is more than just regulating guns and citizens. it's also about regulating the industry. Hold industry accountable for the amount of guns that flood the market. Regulate the amount of guns that any one person can buy, and that includes those who buy and sell at gun shows.

Ok, then lets do the same with everything else that kill, cars, food, cleaning supplies...

In other words, get your mind off the lie that guns are the problem and maybe you'll start seeing reality.

Greetings Bahu Virupaksha.... do you ever wish you had not hit the