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US Demoracy

US Demoracy

Does it apply to the rest of the worlds right to the same

I always find it interesting that when ever we hear a speech from the US administrations through the years, they always refer to the defence of the US and its demoracy. Yet they do not seem to have the same regard for their treatment of other countries. On almost every occasion when the US govenment has interfeered with another countries soverignty, it has been for the defence of the US, the attack of many Sth American countries, Chile spings to mind, when the US admistration, supported the Military Overthrow of the elceted Left wing govenment and supported the Dictator Pinochet, not to mention Nicaragua, again they supported the overthrow of the Elected left wing government, in the case of Iran they supported the Shah and then when he was deposed by a popular rebellion, they supported the Iraqie invasion and subsequent 8 year war, supported the Israelie governments attacks against its neighbours, the list goes on, yet at no time were any of the governments they supported Democratic, nor were they elected, except for Israel.

So one has to ask, why do they do this, and why are we surprised when some attacks them, even though the killing of innocent people in any country is never justified, as in the case of 9/11, the question does go begging as to why the US administration feels it has the right to treat people of many other countries, in a similar fashion.

If the US wants to be treated with respect, and the safety of its citizens preserved, they will only achieve this by treating the soverignty of others with the same respect, other wise they will continue to be attacked by terror groups, it is that simple, respect others, and work with the rest of the world to bring about "real" democratic change.
19,597 views 35 replies
Reply #26 Top
"although I do know that Vietnam was France's fault to begin with."

Saying that the Viet-Nam war was France's fault in simply absurd and fuelled by the recent American anti-French sentiments.

Sure, France fought after WWII to regain colonial control over Viet-Nam (The Vichy government had given it to Japan). But Ho Chin Minh's armies successfully drove the French out of the country.

Furthermore, after the division of Viet-Nam between the South and North, there were scheduled election in June 1956 but Eisenhower never allowed them since he knew the South Viet-Namese would vote in a great majority for the Communists.

Thus, the Viet-Nam war was COMPLETELY the American's fault. Viet-Nam should have been unified right after WWII, communist or not. The hypocrisy of a democratic power refusing to acknowledge the people's wishes and choice is astonishing and part of the dubbed "American Hypocrisy" of the past 50 years.
Reply #27 Top
"Perhaps it was wrong for the US to fight against communism with the zealous it did, but unless I'm mistaken, the US is no longer doing that."

The U.S. government is still greatly scared of communist regimes around the world and still intimidates other nations regardless of the population's wishes

For example, in the 2002 Bolivian presidential elections, Americans tried to stop the spread of the popularity of Evo Morales, leader of the Movement Toward Socialism. The American ambassador to Bolivia, Manuel Rocha stated a few days before the elections that if the Bolivians voted for Morales the United States would cut off foreign aid and close its markets to the country.
Reply #28 Top
Cutting off foreign aid and closing its markets to a country is nothing to taking that country over. I don't see why people would have a problem with that, unless they expect the US to give them support without any expectations. The US isn't a charity.
Reply #29 Top
The Arabs who terroise Israel are the one who have had their country stolen, lively hood destroyed, families murded, and homeland divided to a point that it is impossible to even grow food, or get to work, what did they do to Israel, nothing except live where the Israelies wanted to, and while we are on this subject, it is worth mentioning that every single proposal for peace made by the arab states in relation to Israels position in the Middle East has been vetoed by Israel and the US alone.

Messy Buu, it is not the issue of what the US has done, the issue is that future administrations learn from mistakes in the past and find more constructive ways to address the problems we all face, one being Terroism, others being putting peace before political gains and selfish regional power gains for one country or another.

Until large nations such as the US are seen to be doing this other nations will never be compelled to follow when they can point the finger at the US and argue that they do this as well, nor will we be able to get power brokers in Muslim states to work with us if we do not first show a willingness to be fair to all parties and respect their cultures and soveriginity, there comes a time when someone has to make a stand and become the leader, and lead by example, currently the example is not sending out the message which will bring all parties to the table.
Reply #30 Top
I'm sure if Evo Morales would have been elected president, there would have been some kind of coup with American influences in the years following; a bit like Hugo Chavez, the president of Venezuela, experienced in 2002 (and PLEASE, don't tell me the americans had nothing to do there).
Reply #31 Top
Mess Buu, you have a strange idea of what is morally right, I'm sorry but, the US has no right to try and exert any pressure over the possible outcome of an election in another country, no matter how you want to look at it, and not too many countries try this sought of behaviour, and it is the same as taking over a country as you are imposing your will on that country. The US needs to get over its fear of communism, of course this fear is built out of a fear of an ideology which may challenge the US Hegeomony over the rest of the world, not any sense of moral repugnance. And you wonder why people don't trust the US, teh worst thing of all is the fact that your government is so arrogant that it actually does these sought of things right in the public gaze and do not give a shit about the feelings of the country involved or the rest of us, which just shows how dangerous your current administration has become. That they would be so blatant and arrogant in the dictums to others.

As for aid it is meant to help the less fortunate it is not designed as some sought of bribe or carrot in front of a donkey. The US has done pretty much what it wants in South America and still does.

Interesting thing happened in my country last year just before the Iraqi War, where a member of our opposition made comments which generaally meant we shoould not join the coalition of the willing, your representative in our country decided that he would break diplomatic protocol, and went for this guy and the leader of the opposition, as small incident however the implyed response was made very clear. Interestingly that particular member of the Australian Opposition is now its leader and is looking like he may win the next federal election, looks like the Australian Opposition Parties had the last laugh hear, by the way the ambassodor suggested that at the time that his leader should deal with person, and saw fit to imply that maybe he should be sacked, now he may be the next prime minister, there goes a member of the coalition of the willing.
Reply #32 Top
I forgot to mention that this was the same member of parliment that refered to our current Prime Minister John Howard as a arselicker, the arse being liched was that of George Bush Jnr.

Australians too do not take shit especially from those who have no right to come into our country and tell us how to govern it, it dosen't work here, no matter what the threat.
Reply #33 Top
I know that land was taken away to make Israel, but the rest is news to me. Of course, I guess people would like to pretend that the Arabians have offered the Israelites nothing but love. Whether it's anti-Semitism or just plain hatred for anything affiliated with the US, we will never know. Israel has blood on their hands, but I think everybody knows that there is blood on the hands of the Arabs as well. To deny this is silly and undermines all other arguments presented.
If we really want to get rid of terrorism, we should treat terrorists with the same respect that the Soviet Union treated them. I'd definitely prefer that rewarding them for it anyday.
Fairness is a funny thing, and from what I've seen, the US has been trying to be fair in the Middle East affair for some time, even condemning Israel sometimes. I guess it won't be fair until it's fair in the favor of Muslim states.
Maybe it's me, but I don't expect the US to aid its enemies, which a state turned communist would be, despite how communism has helped the world. Maybe it's me, but I believe that benefactors should have the right to give without being criticized for it. If Australia happily aids their enemies though, then kudos to them. They do aid their enemies, right?
Reply #34 Top
I'm sure if Evo Morales would have been elected president, there would have been some kind of coup with American influences in the years following; a bit like Hugo Chavez, the president of Venezuela, experienced in 2002 (and PLEASE, don't tell me the americans had nothing to do there).


Hypothetical situations are a great way to make the US look bad without requiring any evidence whatsoever.
Reply #35 Top
Messy Buu, are you saying that in your mind at least any country that is communist is automatically to be considered an enemy, I mean come on, do you realy believe that anyone with a different political view point to the philisophy of your government is an enemy. Get real my friend.

As for Arabs, I doubt that anyone would deny the fact that they too are to blame for many conflicts in the middle east.

I would also like to state that in this day and age it is hard to imagin that the US or Australia would have too many enemies, however aid should not be decided on acountries preference of government, rather it should be for humanatarim reasons first and formost.

As for the question does Australia give aid to countries that may be considered its enemies, well firstly we need to understand by what you mean by enemy, if we are saying do we give aid to countries that may have a differing ideology to that of our government of the day, yes we do, as I am unaware of Australia having any Enemies, I would find this hard to answer, as a matter of fact I would be surprised if very many countries in the world today would have enemies, except for those that as I said may differ to us on ideology, culture or religion.

I do concede that there are groups which exist tody which would be considered enemies of both Australia and the US, however no one else springs to mind.

Messy I think you need to come to terms with the fact that there will always be difference of ideas, culture , religion and general political philosphies, however this does not mean that this should be a croteria for considering another state to be an enemy, I would say that an enemy would be a country that would consider doing us harm, and for the life of me none spring to mind right now. Unless I am being naive and Chine is planning a raid on our shores, or maybe Nth Korea plans to bomd us for supporting the US against the so called AXIS of evil, yeah IRAN AND North Korea, really scary, two countries that the US could defeat in the blink of an eye, you want myths then these two countries being a threat to the US is one. Maybe if you got on with your so called enemies you might be able to help them so they do not need to consider selling arms to less than reputable groups which may harm you, you see there are many ways you can deal with a country, you can try and destroy them, or work with them with aid, thus negating the need for monies to be sourced from sales who would do us harm. Of Course that would mean helping an enemy, I suppose.

By the way the above is not hypothetical, the US did try to influence an election in bolivia by threatening the people of Bolivia, this was a threat of removal of Aid, this is inteference and is not acceptable just because this government may be of the left, which is considered by the US Administration, than a Facist Dictator I suppose.