DrJBHL DrJBHL

Get Used to the Idea...your Windows PC is over with

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Get Used to the Idea...your Windows PC is over with

Welcome to Windows as a Service (WaaS)

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3652612/windows-11-the-end-of-the-old-school-windows-desktop.html
from WinCustomize Forums

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols isn't paranoid. He's actually rather smart, and his reasoning is excellent. I'm not an anti-W11er for no reason. I felt all along the it was essentially unnecessary, as W10 could be continually developed, and that the processor requirement and TP2 dustup were basically nonsense because as long as code will exist, hackers will as well, and no code is un-hackable.

"Yes, the Windows 11 security updates are good — if you have the right hardware. But  as I pointed out recently, you can already use those security updates if you're running the Windows 10 20H2 release (Windows 10 October 2020 Update). So the point in upgrading from Windows 10 to 11 is…what, exactly?" - Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

I come from a time when the desktop was the revolution...you were given control over your data, word processing, publishing, etc. It was wonderful, if buggy at times. Remember W7? It was great. So is W10! W11 is the tube to DaaS. 

DaaS isn't bad except for one thing: You will no longer have control over your OS. You won't be calling the shots, M$ will, and it'll cost a pretty penny, too. Microsoft 365 goes for $33 (US) per month...and will go up. What will W11 OS cost? Count on it. X-Box will be an additional cost, too. 

"What I think is important is that, in combination with the subscription feature, this makes it easier for you to pay not just for Microsoft 365, but for Windows itself. No longer will Windows be a one-and-done purchase. It will be forever a subscription service with only one foot in your PC and the other ever more firmly in the cloud...Microsoft sneaked a Microsoft subscription manager into the February 2022 Windows 11 update. Check it out: look into the Windows 11 Settings menu > Accounts and you'll find a new section called "Your Microsoft account." There, you’ll find your Microsoft 365 subscription status, how full your OneDrive cloud storage is, and other details." - Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

 

Maybe it pays for a business, I can't opine regarding that.

For me, it's the sneaky, M$y way this is all being done that really causes me great concern, and may well be my exit point from the M$ world. W11 Home users initially required having an M$ account which they could later delete. W11 Pro users had to have an M$ account which they could not later remove and still have W11 Pro. And ask yourselves, "Why do I need an M$ account to dl and install the upgrade which was supposed to be "free"? Well, what's your privacy (nonexistent) worth?

Do give the articles linked below a read. You're entitled to your opinions, and feel free to express them.

 

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3652612/windows-11-the-end-of-the-old-school-windows-desktop.html

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3636788/windows-11-microsofts-pointless-update.html

personal computing
587,937 views 119 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting naroon1, reply 19

Forward as in the latest Operating System, i have explained this before Doc, i need to offer support for work for those users who need Win 11 support,

All you have to do is pro-actively educate your users NOT to move to a new OS.

New is not always better, in fact more often than not it is simply worse.

The new commercial model for Windows is probably extremely good for Microsoft....at the expense of all the individual users who will be paying more...and forever.

I used to subscribe to Technet back in the day.  I paid annually for Microsoft's 'stuff', but it wasn't one OS on one machine.  It was for DOZENS of them....along with relevant Office Suites as well.

I was getting value for money...and cannot begrudge the system.

But this is fundamentally different.

Instead [ignoring the 5 systems using 10] I own 'outright' my OS.  It works just fine, and with a subscription to 0patch it stays 'current' and more secure than a buggy Windows Update process.

Too many people equate 'new' with 'better'.  They are  most commonly mutually exclusive terms.

Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 26

Too many people equate 'new' with 'better'.  They are  most commonly mutually exclusive terms.

Well said.

"New", maybe. "Better"? Yes...but for whom?  Microsoft. Not you.

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top

What the hell is Daas?

 

Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It's the Doug Anthony All Stars ....;)

Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 20


Quoting naroon1,
reply 19

i need to offer support for work for those users who need Win 11 support, so to move backwards to an older Operating System simply will not work for me and others. I have to have Hands on time, yes i still can offer support for Win 10 as it is still considered mainstream. Sticking to Win 7 like Jafo would mean i had no job...So if i have to jump through one hoop(or one less not having to sign into a MS account) when setting up my future Win 11 OSs to make them look and work how i want, i will do it.



Ok, naroon1, I understand you, because it's your work and you depend on it. Np, my friend.

Luckily, however, I don't need MS nor Windows to survive. I'll happily move on to Linux, or MacOS...hell, I'll use a plug in abacus but no one, and I mean no one is going to make me buy a new MS approved computer to pay to use whatever passes as their OS, apps and Cloud.

 

I in the past have been just like many others, ie...   waiting for a new OS to iron out it's usual issues. I have always put the latest OS on one of my machines from day one to see what all the Hype is about. For me though, i found Win 11 Enterprise to be fine, it worked well, did the job i needed it to do, so soon adopted faster than i usually would.

hell, I'll use a plug in abacus   :rofl:  :rofl:     That is a brilliant turn of phrase Doc and gave me a giggle when i seen it.

I did not think Win 11 support in my job would be so busy so soon, but it was from day one of it's launch, i thought , here we go, these peeps will need a tutorial on any Win 11 new features, but it was seldom about how to use Win 11, more about little changes and how it effected how it worked when using my Companies sites and Software, which is similar to Win 10.

I do not blame you for hating the direction Win 11 is going in, i too do not like it, hopefully many more will hate it too, but as we know MS does not listen to it's customers, probably never will.

I will certainly share any fixes or workaround  ( within the rules)when and if they are needed Mate.

Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting PhoenixRising1, reply 21

Here is a pretty good tool to get rid of all the services you do not want on your Windows 11 version. It is always good to take back control of your PC.

https://beebom.com/how-debloat-windows-11-improve-performance/

 

Hi Phoenix, hope you are well mate.

Luckily the net is awash with Programs and apps like the one you have listed mate, so at least there should not be a problem with users finding them and more important, Using Them.

Reply #32 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting naroon1, reply 31

Luckily the net is awash with Programs and apps like the one you have listed mate, so at least there should not be a problem with users finding them and more important, Using Them.

Yes. Luckily there are programs to reverse/workaround the nonsense that is W11. Doesn't the absurdity of that strike you? W10 is the best workaround.

The only winning move is not to play.

 

 

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Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 26


Quoting naroon1,
reply 19

Forward as in the latest Operating System, i have explained this before Doc, i need to offer support for work for those users who need Win 11 support,



All you have to do is pro-actively educate your users NOT to move to a new OS.

New is not always better, in fact more often than not it is simply worse.

The new commercial model for Windows is probably extremely good for Microsoft....at the expense of all the individual users who will be paying more...and forever.

I used to subscribe to Technet back in the day.  I paid annually for Microsoft's 'stuff', but it wasn't one OS on one machine.  It was for DOZENS of them....along with relevant Office Suites as well.

I was getting value for money...and cannot begrudge the system.

But this is fundamentally different.

Instead [ignoring the 5 systems using 10] I own 'outright' my OS.  It works just fine, and with a subscription to 0patch it stays 'current' and more secure than a buggy Windows Update process.

Too many people equate 'new' with 'better'.  They are  most commonly mutually exclusive terms.

Jafo.

I can not actively educate the users who use my Company, to not move to a new OS, that is there decision, i play no part in that, nor would my company allow it, we live in a world of mostly free speech and decisions, so that is beyond my control.

I agree, new is not always better, but in the past, i have found this to be true with lots of things, not everything new is worst. I do understand this forums users and a lot of them do hate Win 11 for lots of reasons, i can only speak for myself when i say, It works well for me, no problems as of yet, even though i have worked with it since day one. For me the biggest downside of Win 11 is not having my Wonderful Windowblinds  fully working, but that did push me in a new direction with Themes, something i would never have done if it could have been made available when Win 11 launched (Silver Linings And All That).

Totally agree with you as the MS model for OSs is massively different from older OSs.

I do not Equate new with Better, but many things that are new and recent are much better too. Every 3 years a Buy a New Car, every newer and latest Car has been Much Better. I have built an ultimate Audio Visual Package in my Bedroom, Huge Plasma TV, on a multi Function Arm that swings out over my bed, all connected to my Computer, Each time i have bought newer components, the set up gets Better after each new thing is added, i could go on and on Jafo mate. For me Win 11 has been no different, it keeps me current for work, with plenty of Hands on Hours, days and months which in turn makes me better at my job as i adopted it early. (Not through Choice). 

How much do you pay Jafo for the 0patch, maybe i can educate customers who like you, have not, or choose not to move forward and adopt the Latest OS.

What about support for apps and Programs, Drivers etc...with Win 7, surely manufacturers will not support Win 7 forever.

Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 32

 

Quoting naroon1,
reply 31

Luckily the net is awash with Programs and apps like the one you have listed mate, so at least there should not be a problem with users finding them and more important, Using Them.



Yes. Luckily there are programs to reverse/workaround the nonsense that is W11. Doesn't the absurdity of that strike you? W10 is the best workaround.

The only winning move is not to play.

 

 

Yes it is absurd Doc, but as i have no choice or influence over who adopts what OS and when, i just deal with what is in front of me, safe in the knowledge i have plenty of time invested in the OSs both earlier and newer to be able to support peeps who pay my wages Via the money the pay my Company.

I do still have 2 fully Updated Win 10 SSD installations, so i can see both sides of the coin so to speak, but it would be a lie if i said i spend much time on them, just keep them updated, except when i try out a new Windowblind masterskin, 4 more on Order from neon and Vamp, so an hour or so testing them out and i will be back into Win 11.

Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top

naroon1...

Lived too long to equate new with better.  Newest car I've ever owned was a 2007 SAAB Aero V6 convertible...bought in 2013 ...so 'only' 6 years old.  Reason is...in 2007 it was 92.5 Thousand ....in 2013 it was almost run in [as it were] at 56k km, and cost me 23.5.

Same car...same performance...better money...;)

I still have it...along with another [older].

I don't buy new cars every 3 years...as it adds to land-fill to be dumping old for new...panders to one's ego but is not sustainable.  46 years in Architecture and you learn about the reasonable ethics of sustainability...so old is often a lot better.

0patch is a subscription that maintains the old OS at a safe level, and as with ALL things computer...you should NEVER simply update 'stuff' just because an update is available.  Too many times a Vid driver update fucks a computer...and you find the content of the update has no bearing on anything you have installed....eg fixes a game you don't have.

0patch has silently initiated 7,621,536 patches in realtime as needed to 3155 programs....and yet Win Update still says 'new updates available' so MS still hasn't given up on 7 ...in spite of what they tell you.

I don't like being told what OS I am supposed to be using...simply because MS got it wrong...way back with '8'.  There IS NO Windows phone...ergo the interface WAS NEVER NEEDED.

Yair....the kernels might be 'neat', but the shells are utter shite.

Being on the 'cutting edge' means you are on the 'bleeding edge'....

Been there...done that....back in the 60's with Fortran...;)

Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top

7,621,638 for 0patch since I posted....;)

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Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 36

7,621,638 for 0patch since I posted....;)

Wonder who told you about that gem? I'm so glad I found it, Paul. I wonder how many times it's saved me.

Reply #38 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting naroon1, reply 33

I agree, new is not always better, but in the past, i have found this to be true with lots of things, not everything new is worst.

naroon1, W11 is a definite step towards WaaS. That will cost you plenty, beyond your (relative) freedom.

Reply #39 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 20


Luckily, however, I don't need MS nor Windows to survive. I'll happily move on to Linux, or MacOS...hell, I'll use a plug in abacus but no one, and I mean no one is going to make me buy a new MS approved computer to pay to use whatever passes as their OS, apps and Cloud.



Hm, given the site You work for is called WINcustomize and Stardock does mainly tools for windows that makes me wonder a bit.

 
Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 35

naroon1...

Lived too long to equate new with better.  Newest car I've ever owned was a 2007 SAAB Aero V6 convertible...bought in 2013 ...so 'only' 6 years old.  Reason is...in 2007 it was 92.5 Thousand ....in 2013 it was almost run in [as it were] at 56k km, and cost me 23.5.

Same car...same performance...better money...;)

I still have it...along with another [older].

I don't buy new cars every 3 years...as it adds to land-fill to be dumping old for new...panders to one's ego but is not sustainable.  46 years in Architecture and you learn about the reasonable ethics of sustainability...so old is often a lot better.

0patch is a subscription that maintains the old OS at a safe level, and as with ALL things computer...you should NEVER simply update 'stuff' just because an update is available.  Too many times a Vid driver update fucks a computer...and you find the content of the update has no bearing on anything you have installed....eg fixes a game you don't have.

0patch has silently initiated 7,621,536 patches in realtime as needed to 3155 programs....and yet Win Update still says 'new updates available' so MS still hasn't given up on 7 ...in spite of what they tell you.

I don't like being told what OS I am supposed to be using...simply because MS got it wrong...way back with '8'.  There IS NO Windows phone...ergo the interface WAS NEVER NEEDED.

Yair....the kernels might be 'neat', but the shells are utter shite.

Being on the 'cutting edge' means you are on the 'bleeding edge'....

Been there...done that....back in the 60's with Fortran...;)

I am a guy of age myself Jafo.

I do not have an Ego to Pander too, I Lost that kind of thing during my Military Years, Huge Egos cost lives, and that will not happen on my watch.

What do you think i do with a 3 year old car, i certainly do not send it to landfill, i sell it to others who to them, it is newer and or Better than what they had before, or why would they but it.

I can not agree with "so old is often a lot better."  I could go on all day and night about things i have bought new that are so much better than the things they replaced, i can agree that Some things older are better, but your words "Often A Lot Better is going too far for me.

I agree about being told about what OS to use, that is why i have a 4 SSD set up with two Win 10 and two Win 11, it provides all i need and has the added advantage of Hands on time with what is current and being used by a larger section of the peeps i need to support for work.

Have had lots of issues with peeps with Graphic Drivers, not so much me, but agree totally, Nvidia seem to release an update every 2 minutesXO    and you are 100% correct, they seldom update anything i really need, i am not a Gamer but i am Passionate about X265 Encoding, love what it can do.

MS will give up on 7 unless there is a serious issue, that is the way of things. How will 0Patch fair against compatibility with vendors not updating Drivers etc.. almost all OSs stop being supported after a while, does 0patch fix that sort of thing too, really curious.

Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 38


Quoting naroon1,
reply 33

I agree, new is not always better, but in the past, i have found this to be true with lots of things, not everything new is worst.



naroon1, W11 is a definite step towards WaaS. That will cost you plenty, beyond your (relative) freedom.

Already Covered this Doc, when it occurs, i will seek out resourceful fixes, i have no problem besides the fact it is a shitty thing to do to PC users, You say it will happen, i do not doubt that, when that time comes i, with the help of others will overcome and adapt, been doing that for years now. You know by now i am a big Experimental dude, the world is full of such people, even though the prospect does not please me, i will deal with it as and when, wipe my mouth and move on mate.

Reply #42 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting c242, reply 39

Hm, given the site You work for is called WINcustomize and Stardock does mainly tools for windows that makes me wonder a bit.

I don't work for SD or WC, Carl. I volunteer to do what I do for the site and the Community. 

"Super Wizop (7)
A core group of moderators who have been around the site for a very long time.  They have wide-spread administrative powers to help keep everything running smoothly, and to intervene in problems before they get out of hand."

Glad to help with your musings.

 

 

Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I really do not understand, where does the conclusion come from that because the Microsoft 365 (aka Office) needs payment, the same will happen with Windows 11, you don't think that this conclusion is at least arbitrary .. :|  

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Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top

Sorry, I it seems I confused something. And: English is not my first language. Not everything that may sound harsher is intended to do so. No bad blood intended, just discussing and trying to understand why You are so passionate in hating windows 11.

Reply #45 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting adni18, reply 43

I really do not understand, where does the conclusion come from that because the Microsoft 365 (aka Office) needs payment, the same will happen with Windows 11, you don't think that this conclusion is at least arbitrary .. :|  

Hi, Nikos. Good to see you. :)

I don't think that you'll have to pay for W11 per se. W11 is a firm step towards WaaS (Windows as a Service) where your OS will not be under your control and will basically reside mostly in the cloud. In other words, the OS and apps will reside in the Cloud and you'll pay for them monthly or yearly sort of like Adobe's Creative Cloud. Take a look at the two articles in the OP, this one first https://www.computerworld.com/article/3652612/windows-11-the-end-of-the-old-school-windows-desktop.html

 

Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 45

the OS and apps will reside in the Cloud and you'll pay for them monthly or yearly

How would Microsoft stop that from being a massive flop. The last time they flopped on an OS, Windows 8, it cost Steve Balmer his job.

Reply #47 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting c242, reply 44

Sorry, I it seems I confused something. And: English is not my first language. Not everything that may sound harsher is intended to do so. No bad blood intended, just discussing and trying to understand why You are so passionate in hating windows 11.

I don't hate it. I dislike the sneaky, underhanded way MS is trying to remove my control over my computer, misrepresenting the fact that W11 os not much more than a glorified security patch for W10. and turning the OS into something that will force me to pay minthly dues to use it.

Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting PhoenixRising1, reply 46


Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 45

the OS and apps will reside in the Cloud and you'll pay for them monthly or yearly



How would Microsoft stop that from being a massive flop. The last time they flopped on an OS, Windows 8, it cost Steve Balmer his job.

Reread the articles. Subscription models exist all over and are successful. Step by step they'll bring Windows to a subscription service. W11 is the beginning.

Explain to me why else you need to have an account? Why is your OS telling you to update your personal information?

Reply #49 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 48

Explain to me why else you need to have an account? Why is your OS telling you to update your personal information?

The obvious is that Microsoft is really wanting to push their subscription service's, the less obvious is that yes, Microsoft is planning to put ads into their OS and wants easy purchases. I do not believe that equates to making Windows as a whole a REQUIRED subscription service, just several new ways to make money.

Some subscriptions such as Microsoft 365 might not be ideal, but people are able to vote with their wallet if it is worth it or not. I do have to refute this talk of xbox live being at all bad. Actually it is pretty awesome. Basically, it is a Netflix type of subscription for gamer's and is well worth it's monthly cost.

Reply #50 from Stardock Forums Top

All things come to those who patiently wait.