Wincustomize's libary does have a set of Mac OS X icons that were drawn up from scratch rather than ripped. Should these icons be removed from the library since the idea came from actual OS X icons?

https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=2&SkinID=1005

read this:

https://www.joeuser.com/Articles/TheSlipperySlopeofIntelle.html

Yep, they made a choice to STEAL it, freaking thief's. treetog might want to contact Their commercial customers and demand payment and when they point the finger back to the Thief, suggest they do something about it or get tied up in a legal battle over the copyright of the art work with all the negatives that come from it?

Wincustomize's libary does have a set of Mac OS X icons that were drawn up from scratch rather than ripped. Should these icons be removed from the library since the idea came from actual OS X icons?

it is funny that that was brought up because I feel the same way about Adam's LCARS work... It is a rip of work from Star Trek is it not?

And to Adam: I am not trying to piss anyone off

After looking at screen shots of PhaseOut, the difference I see between PhaseOut's default skin and the OS X icons is that PhaseOut's default skin does very much have that Abracadabra look and feel, while the OS X icons found on Wincustomize are not as nice looking as real OS X icons. Does this mean that it is okay to steal an idea or visual style if the implementation is done poorly?

I am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch.



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am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch.

so am I

Kona if you don't know the difference between LCARS the concept and a specific skin then you should really just be quiet.

OK

kona, just to give you a clue about the difference:
Please show me where I can download or purchase the LCARS operating system.

I am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch.

The line comes when the 'similar' image is a direct attempt to make a close or exact duplicate of another person's work. When something is done 'in the style of' something else, as with the OSX icons, a claim of theft doesn't hold too much weight as it could be argued that the style is something rather general, and it's not possible to copyright an artistic technique.

In the case of the PhaseOut skin, they have intentionally tried to replicate the exact look and feel of the Abracadabra skin and pass it off as their own design. Even if they haven't used any images from the original skin, they have still created something which would be mistaken by the original paying customers of the WindowBlinds skin as an endorsed 'port'. If this case were to get to court, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I'd personally like to see an example made of them.

same here grayhaze, treetog should have his due...

Why I mentioned the commercial customers, send a letter(email?) to the creator of PhaseOut program, which they will balk at as they have done, but also another one indicating that anyone making use of it with that Copyrighted property which is commercially sold (Pixtudio, WinC and Stardock should (TM) things also) as being considered a separate plaintiff for theft, pirating.

PhaseOut's customers will flip, and if you want to get a reaction, make paying customer's flip and question the ethic's and trust of the one they are doing business with.

It would be something that all involved would never forget and always have niggling in the back of their minds when thinking of , or dealing with PhaseOut.

Word of mouth travels fast and far also in business.

Medical Manager (WebMD) is learning that more and more each convention and trade show.

I hope you are not suggesting actually threatening to sue commercial users that may not be aware of the threft. I think sending them a notice of what PhaseOut has done would be enough. They should then take proper action to stop using PhaseOut's product and demand a refund from PhaseOut.
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That would be up to whom ever was dealing with the issue, but yes, I would send a cease and desist request with the indication of not doing so would be in fact an admission to accepting the illegal use, at which point they also become a thief.

Purchasing stolen property is a crime, doing so out of ignorance to the fact that it is stolen lends to a benefit of doubt being applied. But once they know and continue to do so (make use of it) that benefit is gone, period.

Seriously if they were selling this to third parties treetog, i can put you in touch with my attorney who specializes in Patents and Intellectual Property. I'm pretty sure you have a solid case for copyright infringement and you're most likely due monetary damages. Let me know.

an interesting thing is that there are also fonts sold with the Abracadabra suite. for example the Hooge fonts by Craig Kroeger ( http://www.miniml.com ). i wonder if has ever been contacted in the meantime and if he gets royalities from the third party selling his work.

and not to mention mr hooge, whose name has been infringed on. sigh

The slope just gets more slippery by the minute.

Well, it all will be sorted out hopefully. I think if thier are serious about being a company in today's climate, Phase Out will have to conform to the demands.

A letter has been sent. I intend to keep it 'confidential', but time will tell exactly how willing PhaseOut is to be seen to be doing the right thing.

Contacting third-party users of the product is not an option, as it muddies the waters with issues of potential 'libel'.

I'm confident that PhaseOut will respond favourably...

Optimism is a wonderful thing.........

Contacting third-party users of the product is not an option, as it muddies the waters with issues of potential 'libel'.

Possibly and no I did not consider everything which is a bit obvious

If things do not work out directly, then a lawyer would be the best next step.

frogboy made an extremal valid point about the skin community ignoring the app because of it if things do not work out, also that they have already responded to an email,

It is a nice app, just as he (frogboy) points out also.

PhaseOut might become Phased Out before it even Fades in completely

yrag....I believe I am right when I said I was confident of favourable response....chalk up another to the powers of good communication...

good deal Jafo !

Im still confused over this whole thing, and am now looking at mozzilla!!!!!

This "you copied my skin" thing has gone way too far. According to some of you, any user creating anything that resembles, say the Hulk, should be sued by the original creator AND anyone using this artwork should be sent a cease and desist letter? As the "joeuser" article pointed out, some companies must realize that imitation will occur thus they choose to live with it I suppose.

As I said long ago, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Renato is an icon in the skinning world thus, there are going to be those who use his work as a foundation and even a model for their own. Hell, some of my own skins have ideas that came from his work. The line between "looks like" and "duplication" can sometimes be thin and hard to judge.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning duplication regardless of whether the art was created from scratch or not. What I am saying is that it seems to be getting to a point where "Hey, my skin has a blue title bar and green text so you ripped me!" will be coming along soon. I hate to see this happen because new skinners will be afraid to try any technique that someone has already done and give up before they even start. Even I have found myself looking at my work trying to imagine if there are any similarities to someone else's work.

Words similar to "I have a great lawyer and I will sue you" in this thread and in a couple others from the past scare me. As if our society isn't already litigious enough.

I hope it works out as Jafo says (he is most certainly a powerful writer) and this all goes away but... when will it occur again? *sigh*