Good point. But do you really think this is best accomplished by using more cartoon like planets, similar as to those of spore? I think it would be better to aim for something more like this: 

Realistic and breathtaking at the same time. As well as utterly unique. 

Yeah, cool for one planet. Otherwise, it's rather boring and unmemorable.

Going to disagree on that.  Just looking at the screenshot posted I can hear the background music.  I remember jumping into a new solar system and looking at the colour coding of the orbits to figure out which planet would be best to start harvesting for resources.  The solar view might be unspectacular from a modern viewpoint, but it was wasn't at the time.  Not to say it couldn't use a little pop..seeing nebula in the background and such would really help build a universe.

Maybe this is selection bias (we're all in the founders program) but I also have serious nostalgia for the screens and could probably sketch out SC3 planet screens too hah. 

But it's really worth noting - this is heavily nostalgic to some extent and also us as superfans. I think that Vaelzad is right about a lot of these points (think Twilight Princess vs. Windwaker - Nintendo has an amazing track record of helping things not look dated through unique styling). 

Personally, I'd be happy with planets that didn't seem as unique from a space view. I like that. But I completely understand the developer's standpoint and do think that it's quite possible it will work better for newcomers and most non-super-fans. So they might be on to something that will be exciting to a lot of players. It's not the decision I would make if I was making a game for ME, but I think it's a call made based on a sound foundation. 

The same goes for the three planets that stardock relesed Hunam, so your point is realy moot. Of course it is only memrable as a single planet. That is exactly what the picture is of? What are you trying to acomplish with that statement? A solar systum of, as you admited, cool planets would be remarkable and not mundane while still being non cartoony. Why does something have to be unrilistic to be remarkable? This seems to be your prevailing argument! Why cant we have relistick, un spore-like planets? That would make this game truly remarkable!

Here, have an example of a remarkable, cool, memrabole, 3d, and relistick solor systum:

Have it look spmething like this. You can totaly have features, and an intriguing lander experiance without haveing the planet be unrilistily depicted. Just food for thought. I am not trying to hate on your desighn, or be rude, but I feel that I must agree with Precursers-tilt in the fact that the cartony planets just dont fit at all what Paul and Freads starcon 2 was trying to depict. With the tech of the time, they were trying to be as relistic as possuble. Why dont we aim for the same ideal? We could acomplish so much more! Cartony planets almost feel like the easy way out. 

Well, (sigh) here is the feedback you guys at stardock asked for, I try my best. Though I do feel this will make litle to no impact on your planet desighn valzead, since you seem to have your heart, and your developeres set. I do try though. I simply feel it would be large mistake to make the planets so unbeliveable. If and when I play it, I hope that whatever planet desighn you have chosen sells works out well.  

I agree that realistic graphics have a tendency to fall to the way side quickly. One of the staying powers of Star Control's (and many other games of the time) are the animated, cartoon graphics. Even the HD update of SC2 looks incredible by modern standards for that reason. For me, I own games older then I am and love to play them so graphic "realism" means very little to me. It could be because we are looking at a concept image rather then the truly rendered one in game which may make a huge difference. I can't imagine what SC2 planets looked like as drawn images vs. what they looked like after rendering. It may also be that it looks too out of place at the moment without seeing more of the universe it exists in.

Vaelzad, are the images we have seen so far how they would look in game or will they have a rendering similar to how planets look in Spore and other similar styled games?

When I really think about it, I spent more time in a game like Spore trying to build planets that looked like this then ever playing the main game. It makes me really think the problem visually right now, is what it looks like on paper just doesn't translate well to our eyes what it will look like in game. Once we see rendered images, I think many of our concerns will be resolved.

Decides to play around a bit around a bit with ideas after reading this thread, end result I got (that is ridiculously rough), but might help explain what I'm getting at, is attached.

I could be wrong, but I'm wondering if the disconnect between the stylised version and what people want with more realism/more like SC2 is more a matter of feel/emotional effect, rather than the style itself being the problem. In SC2, the elements of the music, design and travel really lent itself well to the feeling I have when I think of space: serene, haunting, still and massive. And it either continued to have that feeling through the lander on more barren planets, or contrasted sharply when there were weather effects and biology moving around on the surface. I think that aspect of still versus moving was important for making it feel more alive.

I personally like the style in the concepts, but it doesn't come across in the same way/doesn't give that same feeling of space. Perhaps that would change inside the engine itself, but I think the problem might actually be one of scale and the concepts being too busy/having too many details. There's a lot of different features of the planet across various scales shown all at once (large continents, along with medium and all the way down to small scale objects, like trees). Closer up, as you approach the planet, I think that might work, but in terms of a view of the solar system, I feel like it comes across as too friendly and too full. 

Something to consider might be limiting the number of features that are shown to only large scale, or a limited number of elements (e.g. continents only, or for large features such as volcanoes, only one or two mounts). And to potentially scale down the saturation a bit (if identifiability at a distance is a concern, a colour coded particle effect or partial tail ring, might be an option).

Not sure if that's helpful, or a compromise that works, but just my thoughts. Have a good one


 

I disagree with your views here. StarControl 2 was a great game; but definitely not for its solar system representation. It was adequate and functional and for the time (with the technical limitations available) good. But it is in no way memorable compared to a lot of other solar system representations in games. What *did* make it memorable was the music - as well as the (at the time quite novel) "physics" of flight (i.e. inertia and banging into a planet).

Keep in mind that the developers of StarControl 2 would have made their game very *very* differently if they had todays hardware available. One of the major limitations that they had to work with was representing a solar system in 320x200 pixels. There are some forum avatars that are bigger than that.

The UrQuan HD mod is great for nostalgia for you and I - but the solar system representation is dull.

The point of my statement is:

If you get your planet in different colors and different clouds and make a galaxy out of it - it'll be SC2 v2.0/HD

If you use new SC planets that were revealed and add some mundane/boring looking ones into the mix you'll get a tons better looking, memorable, lively galaxy that will fit aliens and general game artstyle. I can only assume at this point that not every star system will have crazy looking purple volcano'ed planets. Again, We haven't seen what they look like in 3D far out and up close, so we can't really make our "final" judgement on planets looks. Let's wait for 3D images.

Good points hunam and HenriHakl, I will stay my judgement until I see the finalized planets. Its just that I've never liked cartony planets, but maybe that's just me. Perhaps that will change when I see the further planet designs. I just don't know. 

It isn't just you.  I dislike the current planet designs.  I'm also waiting to see them in the game before passing final judgement.

I love these ideas!  If you're going to have readily identifiable planets from orbit, then make some of them REALLY interesting!  I would LOVE to see a skyscraper planet, or a war/darkside/evil/ominous planet, and think to myself, "I HAVE to go there, but I bet it's gonna hurt to do so!"

Quoting TheUr-quanMaster, reply 81

Here, have an example of a remarkable, cool, memrabole, 3d, and relistick solor systum:

Reduced 29%
Original 1920 x 1080

I wasn't sure which opinion I was going to side with until I read and saw this.  This puts me firmly into Vaelzad's camp. The picture you posted is well executed, and I'm sure the creator is very proud, but I've seen 100 of these, and I'm not going to remember ONE THING about that picture by the time I hit "Post Reply" on this response.  I'm not yet a huge fan of the planet art style, (but I think I will be very soon!) but if Vaelzad insists that memorable is a goal, then yes, the new design achieves that!

And as soon as we start landing on these things, they ARE going to differentiate themselves from Spore, etc. very fast!  I am excited to combine the planet with the landings.

In 1999 I had a conversation with someone about how I believed that Team Fortress could remain a popular game for 20 years or more... because of it's "artsy" like cartoonish graphic look.  I believed that look was timeless, like a buggs bunny cartoon, and that no matter how far graphics advanced, Team Fortress would still look good.  History has proven me right on that one.  I think it is this type of look they are trying to achieve, one that will be timeless like Buggs Bunny or Team Fortress.  If they can do that, it would be very appropriate for Star Control.

Hmm... True. I must say that you all have a point. I love team fortress 2! One of my favorite games of all time! I do see what Vaelzad is trying to achieve and I applaud memorability. But not all carton games turn out as well as team fortress two. If stardock can make it look right, then yes, it might work, but there are many others that have traveled down this same path but did not make it to there goal. As I said before, I will withhold judgement until I see further art, as it looks now I don't like it, but that could change with further development. And Moagan, I appreciate the feedback, my views have bee somewhat changed since that post of mine, due to the convincing arguments from you and others. I just hope that we can pull this look off right, like Team Fortress Two, and not wrong like Spore. 

Also mentioning Team Fortress you can also note that Borderlands has a cartoony feel to it and it rather suits the game very well and gives it a classy feel.

For me, I'm not a fan of the planet design, I opened up the vault when I got in, looked at all the concept art, loved seriously all of it (Which I feel should be said more, the aquatic alien design looks boss!) until I hit the planets. I'm not sure I have any more salient points to add to whats been said that hasn't been covered already, I suppose I feel that things we know, should echo what we know, so it grounds everything in a bit more believabilty, sure Starcontrol 2 was... Out there, but with the familiar surroundings it somehow felt more real. Sure it was cartoony but it was more... say, early series of the Simpsons instead of Bugs Bunny. With people as well that say that the aliens absolutely should be a mix of the two, weird and vibrant aliens would, to me, pop better against a more grounded backdrop and yes, part of the love for the old game was working out what to look for when I first arrived in a system, learning slowly the little clues that could tip me off to something good and occasionally just checking everything because I felt weird that day.

... That was ineloquent and rambly, sorry half formed thoughts there!

I'd like to add that all we've seen up to now are some still images. The degree of cartoony-ness is not really explored at all with just those images.

I think we all agree that none of us wants to see a cartoony-cartoon planet with zippy little animations and "ZOINK" sound effects.

But, imagine if you will, a terran planet as shown here:

Now imagine a subtle and tasteful atmospheric animation - some haze, slowly rolling cloud patterns that are built from physics/perlin-noise. "Realistic" in other words, but on top of the exaggerated planet that we see.

I think that could be well sexy; perhaps even a little jaw dropping.

Furthermore, regarding that "zany" pink-green planet in the middle. There are parts on earth that look surprisingly close to what is shown there. Picturing a whole alien planet with predominantly that kind of environment. Have a look at this article for some nice demonstrations.

Further a selection of sample images from earth. You have to wonder if Stardock is failing to make things exaggerated enough.

HenriHakl, those images are amazing, and it would be so so cool to see/explore environments like that.  I just don't want to be able see those features from space, or even from orbit.  I think part of the fun of going down to a planet is not knowing (at all) what's there or what it looks like beforehand.

Quoting HenriHakl, reply 94

I'd like to add that all we've seen up to now are some still images. The degree of cartoony-ness is not really explored at all with just those images.

I think we all agree that none of us wants to see a cartoony-cartoon planet with zippy little animations and "ZOINK" sound effects.

But, imagine if you will, a terran planet as shown here:



Now imagine a subtle and tasteful atmospheric animation - some haze, slowly rolling cloud patterns that are built from physics/perlin-noise. "Realistic" in other words, but on top of the exaggerated planet that we see.

I think that could be well sexy; perhaps even a little jaw dropping.

Furthermore, regarding that "zany" pink-green planet in the middle. There are parts on earth that look surprisingly close to what is shown there. Picturing a whole alien planet with predominantly that kind of environment. Have a look at this article for some nice demonstrations.

Further a selection of sample images from earth. You have to wonder if Stardock is failing to make things exaggerated enough.

How did you raid our environment reference folder? Dang it. I need to sweep for bugs and rogue network connections again. ;) 

It was easy, I just tried user "Administrator" with password "StarControlRuleZ!" 

Don't you think you're undervaluing your space ship sensors then? Satellites can already show startlingly detailed footage from orbit (you could wave at the camera and it could be seen) - extending that to system wide for a sci-fi game that takes place in a much more technologically advanced future doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

You're right, let me be more specific... I don't want my sensors giving me views of planets with exaggerated features (the so called cartoon effect).  Rather, I'd like to see scans of of the planet at a true scale but at different zoom levels, from a wide planetary view to a low-altitude 'city block' view.  I'd like to have different scans telling me different information, a la SC2... so a visual scan is superficial, a geological scan gives me mineral resource type and quantity info as well as tectonic/volcanic activity, a biological scan gives me life form and ecological info, etc.  Cool sciency info that is mostly pertinent to the game.

I'd like to have the choice of different technologies for sensors, giving me more and different information at greater distances. I'd even go so far as to suggest remote probes you can launch to auto-survey planets/star systems, perhaps for a premium.

I think this would be an improvement to SC2 but still well within the spirit of SC2 (gameplay)

Oh, and as an aside to scanners... this is my next toy.   

https://www.consumerphysics.com/myscio/

Consumer tri-corders: here we come!