Quoting Xenove, reply 40

But I think it would be fine to be able to visually see the planets in such a way AFTER they have been scanned and explored and not before.

 

This I could get behind far easier. The images I think would also come off as funnier since we would constantly have that moment where we approach a colored ball in space then up close scanning cause that "what the heck?!" moment.

I'm definitely in favor of as many 'what the heck' moments as possible. The game is all about encountering and dealing with the unexpected, right?

As long as it's not a frustration "what the heck."

I know I got kind of annoyed by the end of Mass Effect 3 while holding down and scanning planets, but it wasn't really the scanning of planets I disliked - I could have done that for another 20 hours - it was the holding down the mouse and hovering that gave me pain in my hand after sustained playing. So if the mechanism is enjoyable, I'd scan I'll day - especially if there was a variety in things we could find, not just resources but also new aliens, conversations, plot threads, battles, and so on. 

I think we have missed one thing... will planets have satellites?

ooh, Satellites, Moons, Stations, Space Monsters, Unexplainable Anomalies.. wheee! 

My initial reaction is that I don't like these at all.  After a little thought I've decided to hold off judgement until we know the context of these images.  If this is what we see from the edge of a solar system I'll be disappointed.  If this is what we see from in orbit of the planet, I can live with it.

The original, at least to me seemed strongly influenced by pulp sci-fi imagery from the 50-60's and even 70's, and while over the top, it wasn't that cartoon-like...at least to my much-younger-then brain.  I tried to give them some time to grow on me, but I'm just not appreciating the planet designs...   I also actually like discovery,...I'd hate to "click system, immediately know my strategy, execute, and move on" for every system,...there should be a little more thought there, and it should create some tension about moving on versus being a completion-ist. 

Don't turn it into this:

Turn it into this:

edit:  So, adding in the 2nd photo took out some of my original text.  It was suppose to say something along the lines of mixing the two styles, and there should be a happy medium between the two, but more realistic-looking than Spore.

Quoting dogchainx, reply 57

Don't turn it into this:

 

 

 

Turn it into this:

 

Isn`t the last one a bit too.... extreme for a game like SC?

Here's hoping there's a Death Star waiting to be found in the game

Quoting dogchainx, reply 57

Don't turn it into this:

 

 

 

Turn it into this:

 

I feel like you just posted this. 

Don't turn it into this: 

Turn it into this: 

Quoting Vaelzad, reply 60

Quoting dogchainx,

reply 57

Don't turn it into this:

 

 

 

Turn it into this:

 

 

I feel like you just posted this. 

 

Don't turn it into this: 



Turn it into this: 

Hmm....I think posting the second photo took out some of my text.   It was suppose to say something along the lines of two extremes, that there should be a happy medium between the two.

Umm... But that looks similar to some visualisations from SC3:

In my opinion the aliens themselves can be more cartoony, with surreal and even abstract influences.  As long as they have character, that intangible something that will make them interesting and memorable, they can be a race of abstract animate typefaces wriggling through space for all I care. What I don't want is an environment that will be too whacky. I feel that that distinction was present in SC2. The aliens can be more heavily stylized due to the fact that the forms of alien life are inconceivable to us, attempting realism there is a far more risky and potentially unsound approach. Making them meaningfully surreal, unreal, or symbolic is actually more acceptable in many ways, and allows them to more effectively convey a wide array of content and themes. Want comedy? Satire? Tragedy? Horror? Mystery? You can do all of it and more with aliens like that.

But the world is a different story here, we don't know what aliens look like, but we've known for some time now how space, planets, stars, and galaxies look like, so making them too whacky can seriously backfire because at some point the mind just goes: "Well, this definitely isn't a world, and that definitely isn't a star." Since Star Control is supposed to serve the fantasy of space exploration, it should tone down the stylization of the environment to a balance of unique aesthetics and believability.

In short:

IMO in SC aliens are more or less free game in terms of exaggerated and stylized visuals, but the environment is less so.

I am not really digging the Pixar/Spore planets.  I liked feeling like Dr McCoy scanning a planet.... not Dr Suess

The problem is that if you differentiate the two too much then you have 2 aspects of the game that do not belong and you don't have a cohesive art direction for the game. This is one of the bigger game development challenges that we have, how do we keep the fun of SC consistent throughout the game and have it all feel like it belongs together. 

But is that really a problem, or are you making it a problem? If SC2 got away with it without anyone ever commenting upon it (at least not that I can remember, and I've been following the SC2 community for years and years), why does it need "fixing"? Are you guys truly trying to catch the SC2 mood, or are you merely trying to add your own artistic touch? 

I started out this thread by saying that the planets would be controversial, and this thread has proven me correct. Since you've ditched all the familiar races and the story we know and love, you need to be very, very careful about fiddling too much with the rest of the core themes present in the earlier games if you want your new Star Control to feel like it actually is a new Star Control and not just a generic space game inspired by SC2. The new planet design, while it might appear to be a solid decision in isolation and among a certain part of the audience, will work against you in this regard.

I kind of hope they're not all (aliens too) too cartoony. There were a lot of limitations in the past but I'd love some to feel cartoonish (and their personality reflect it) but others to be downright horrifying or incomprehensible. Hopefully there are ways to make it all work together. 

From the arguments I have seen so far there are two main ideologies. On for each group.

From the pro-cartony planets I hear this:

From the Pro-realistic planets I hear this

I suggest a compromise. Who here has heard of the Ur-quan masters HD mod? Nobody? Hmm I see. Take a look at what they did with the solar systems and planets. 
You can definitely tell the features of the planet from space, and each planet can retain individuality,  without any need for a cartony surface! This seems to me to address both sides of the problem, forming a conceivable compromise. 

I think you can get away with the characters being more cartoony because we have few preconceived notions about what aliens look like.  We all have a rough idea what planets look like from space so those have to be less cartoonish to create a universe that we can believe we are a part of.  As I said earlier though, I'll hold off any judgement about the concept art until we know the context.

Yeah I think that's said well - while the early games were low fidelity, so is, say, the readout on a submarine - you know things are there and that they represent real things and the limitations are those of the technology. So things still "feel" real. The planets in the early star control games felt similar. 

SC2 was kind of a patchwork that managed to work. The aliens in SC2 were animal/plant critters with cool stories (mostly), inhabiting a pretty believable universe. (mostly)

Well, OK, that's not entirely true.

In the more abstract sense they were satirical constructs, making us laugh at and/or ponder issues that are pretty human and familiar, just presented in a new and defamiliarized way. Walking personifications of scary, funny, interesting, and sometimes ridiculous concepts. For that reason, when I think about the story of Star Control 2 I just can't help but see it as a cosmic beast fable. Where a talking fox can live in a mostly normal looking house, a mouse can be held in a concentration camp by cats, and a capitalist pig can rule a farm, and you're the lone clueless human cruising around on your ship going "WHAT THE F***!? REALLY?!" like, every 5 minutes.

I know SC is a different beast in a lot of ways. The issue I'm getting at is there are genres that purposefully mix (at least somewhat) familiar worlds and unbelievable creatures with good effect, to magnify the humor, deepen the horror, and get some meaning across.

In SC terms, I've always felt that certain thematic extremes, such as the mostly serious and genocidal Kohr-Ah, and say, the overly whacky new age Pkunk, could work within the same game because the world itself was kind of toned down, neutral, and in the background. It wasn't Kohr-Ah grim, and it wasn't bright Pkunk cartoony land, there was space for both.

Exactly, I think that's why people are concerned about the planets seeming cartoony - it seems like something might not be able to be very grim at all if it still has a cartoon planet. But I suppose it's not as if the Kohr-Ah ships were particularly 'gritty and realistic'. It's rough to move to the modern era this way because, really, the graphics in the early games were general enough in a lot of ways (ships, planets, etc) that we may have not seen past the limitations of the medium to the artistic choices and could, more than you can in a AAA game with motion cap voice acting and super HD skin textures, project our own feelings about what is real and when it is real. 

Quoting TheUr-quanMaster, reply 67

I suggest a compromise. Who here has heard of the Ur-quan masters HD mod? Nobody? Hmm I see. Take a look at what they did with the solar systems and planets. 

Reduced 43%

Original 1296 x 999

You can definitely tell the features of the planet from space, and each planet can retain individuality,  without any need for a cartony surface! This seems to me to address both sides of the problem, forming a conceivable compromise. 

There are several issues with that view of space (more than I want to point out right now) but the one that is just 100% not acceptable is that it is completely unremarkable. There is nothing in that view of space that makes it memorable. If you removed the Star Control UI elements from it, there is nothing about it that would make you remember it as Star Control. It just looks like any other space representation out there.

One of the goals is to make sure when you see a screenshot of a Star Control solar system you will recognize it as Star Control and not get confused with some other game. 

By the way, I recently heard about another game featuring exaggerated planets, it's called "The Universim". This is what they look like there:

Quoting Vaelzad, reply 72

Quoting TheUr-quanMaster,

reply 67

I suggest a compromise. Who here has heard of the Ur-quan masters HD mod? Nobody? Hmm I see. Take a look at what they did with the solar systems and planets. 

Reduced 43%

Original 1296 x 999

You can definitely tell the features of the planet from space, and each planet can retain individuality,  without any need for a cartony surface! This seems to me to address both sides of the problem, forming a conceivable compromise. 

 

There are several issues with that view of space (more than I want to point out right now) but the one that is just 100% not acceptable is that it is completely unremarkable. There is nothing in that view of space that makes it memorable. If you removed the Star Control UI elements from it, there is nothing about it that would make you remember it as Star Control. It just looks like any other space representation out there.

 

One of the goals is to make sure when you see a screenshot of a Star Control solar system you will recognize it as Star Control and not get confused with some other game. 

 

 

Oh really. You are basically saying that the view of star controls solar system is unremarkable. And could not be recognized a star control. I thought that it was a great game, and that was the reason why we were making a new star control game. Silly me, there are so many problems with their solar system, wich you see for most of the game, that it could not possibly be so.  So here is a challenge Vealzad, find so much as one game, that has a similar solar system look and planet system as star control. Just one! As for your planets Vealzad, I can show you two planets that look exactly the same our close to your "unique" planet design. 

for example,

here is your planets

spores planets

and,

Quoting prodigalmaster, reply 73

By the way, I recently heard about another game featuring exaggerated planets, it's called "The Universim". This is what they look like there:

Reduced 22%

Original 2560 x 1600

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as you can see, there are two examples that your design (so far at least) is a common one, and so far zero that proves that the originals solar system and planet design is mundane. I Would go as far to say that the originals star-con's solar system is more original and distinct then what I have seen of yours so far. I realize that this is concept art, however that is the reason why I am trying to give all the feedback I can before it is to late to make an important design change. 

And the feedback is very much welcomed. I'm just pointing out that the HD screen you did post is very mundane and unoriginal. To be critical on a few points, 

The orbit lines are very thin, because of that you lose them very quickly. 

The blue lines are completely lost because of the blue nebula background as a result the gas giant's positioning appears distorted.

The lighting is inconsistent. The ambient light of the system is brighter than the sun on some planets but is much darker than others. 

By increasing the resolution the proportions on screen have also been changed shrunken and don't read as well. 

The visual expectations of the original Star Control were developed to a much lower quality bar than what people expect today. There are outstanding images in Star Control that everyone remembers and there are areas that people quickly forget, and the solar system view is one of them. The most memorable thing about the solar system view in the original was that it was a rarity and special if you saw another ship flying around. The color coding of the planets and their orbits wasn't something the everyday player remembered. 

The goal is to bring Star Control up to the modern standards and give it a visual look that won't immediately look dated. Games that shoot for the goal of realism are the fastest to become visually dated and become more difficult to be played. Especially if revisited a couple of years later as the visual standard increases. Realistic styles are proven to look dated very quickly as the standards of what passes for realism increases on a weekly basis.