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New MS Windows 10 Computer Trade-in Program

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DrJBHL
JcRabbit
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Reply #26 October 20, 2015 12:55:00 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Island Dog,
reply 25
The PR backlash alone would dictate that, among many other things.

Really? Want a bigger PR backlash than the one we are having now (oh, I can see that happening too lol)? If Microsoft doesn't care about the current backlash, what makes you think it would care more later?

Currently Microsoft is practically *forcing* users to upgrade to Windows 10. If that was not true, they would make it easy to opt out of the upgrade. Instead, they keep coming up with new ways to shove the upgrade down our throats, whether we like it or not. This is a fact.

Another fact is that Microsoft's telemetry is off the charts. The information they retrieve is transmitted encrypted (so we don't know what is actually being sent) and, again, they make it as difficult as possible to opt out of all that data gobbling. There is ZERO transparency here, and you are forced to trust Microsoft that they won't do anything bad with YOUR data (right, and Microsoft has already proved over and over again that it can be trusted... NOT!)

Another fact is that under Windows 10 you cannot turn off Windows updates. This gives Microsoft *total* control over YOUR PC.

Can't you see how potentially dangerous all this is, Spencer?

Many people and companies depend on Windows to make a living. Microsoft is very much aware of that and they couldn't care less (unless it hits their bottom line, of course).

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DrJBHL
DrJBHL
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Reply #27 October 20, 2015 4:18:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Jorge...their deal is better than Adobe's. $120/year to rent PsCC 2015 and Lr. 

So far, MS is talking 'free'. Undoubtedly at some point a large enough (cumulative) change will cost, but that's no different from Adobe (that does it with monthly charges) - even SD does it with major version changes. 

You do Winstep Extreme...on a yearly licensing basis as well...the development and maintenance as well as server rental space justify that. So why does MS have to be different? 

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DrJBHL
Jafo
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Reply #28 October 20, 2015 4:42:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,
reply 26

Currently Microsoft is practically *forcing* users to upgrade to Windows 10. If that was not true, they would make it easy to opt out of the upgrade. Instead, they keep coming up with new ways to shove the upgrade down our throats, whether we like it or not. This is a fact.

Jorge....this machine is Win 7.  It doesn't have that little icon TELLING me to upgrade. I CORRECTLY disabled the 'feature'.  It can be done....

I do have the icon on Terry's machine...as she is to be guinea pig number 4.

I already have 10 on 3 machines [mostly without issue]...

 

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DrJBHL
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Reply #29 October 20, 2015 4:55:07 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,
reply 28

I CORRECTLY disabled the 'feature

Do tell. Mine is an optional update.

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DrJBHL
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Reply #30 October 20, 2015 9:09:33 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 27
You do Winstep Extreme...on a yearly licensing basis as well...the development and maintenance as well as server rental space justify that. So why does MS have to be different?

I don't do 'software rental'. I don't charge for 'major upgrades' either (whatever that is), since what constitutes a 'major upgrade' is arbitrary.

I do something which I think is fair for both users *and* me: when you purchase a Winstep product, you are purchasing that particular version and what it does for you NOW. As a bonus, you get one full year of free upgrades.

When that year elapses, to get another year of free upgrades you do have to pay a fraction of your initial purchase price.

However, you do NOT have to renew your upgrade subscription unless you absolutely want a new version that was released outside your free upgrades period. You are not forced to upgrade, and, by the same token, there is no penalty whatsoever if you don't renew your upgrade subscription exactly when your free year of upgrades elapses.

So, if you purchased a version that was released in 2012 and you are happy with that, you can use it until you are blue in the face. If in 2020 you decide a new version is finally worth the small upgrade price, the upgrade price is what you pay for that version, you don't have to pay full price again EVER. Furthermore, this will entitle you to another year of free upgrades.

Thus, to keep making money with renewals, I have to keep coming up with new features that users feel are worth upgrading for. See? Fair for everybody. I get paid for my work, users get their money's worth in features when - and only when - *they* decide they want to.

If a user decides not to renew their upgrade subscription, the version they already have is theirs and will keep on working FOREVER.

What Microsoft is aiming for here (see Office 365) is very different, it's software as a service (e.g.; software rental): you pay a monthly fixed amount for the privilege of using their OS, regardless of that OS offering new features in between your last payment or not.

But then what happens if you don't pay? I guess that is obvious: Windows will stop working.

Yes, Microsoft are entitled to do that when it comes to Office and other specific applications, but Windows is a very different beast. You don't run Windows to run Windows, you run Windows to run *everything else* that runs under it.

Quoting Jafo,
reply 28
Jorge....this machine is Win 7.  It doesn't have that little icon TELLING me to upgrade. I CORRECTLY disabled the 'feature'.  It can be done....

Hey, guess what? I disabled it too. That still didn't stop Windows from downloading 6.5 GB of Windows 10 setup code into my PC. And then I got that 'optional' (by mistake, of course) Windows 10 Upgrade on Windows Update, and the only option it was giving me was to go ahead and install the damn thing. There was no option for 'No, thanks' or 'Please install the normal updates but not this crap'. Just 'Upgrade Now'.

Now, I know my way around Windows, so I knew how to get around that. But the normal user? Not so much unless they ask someone for help. And if they don't then they were cornered into installing Windows 10 on their computer without really wanting to.

And are these the actions of an ethical company? Really? Would it be very hard for Microsoft to add an option saying 'No thanks, not now, maybe later'? Come on!

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DrJBHL
Jafo
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Reply #31 October 20, 2015 10:10:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Quoting JcRabbit,
reply 30

Hey, guess what? I disabled it too. That still didn't stop Windows from downloading 6.5 GB of Windows 10 setup code into my PC. And then I got that 'optional' (by mistake, of course) Windows 10 Upgrade on Windows Update, and the only option it was giving me was to go ahead and install the damn thing. There was no option for 'No, thanks' or 'Please install the normal updates but not this crap'. Just 'Upgrade Now'.

Nope....no 6.5 gig of 'stuff' downloaded here...

The disabling was a specific sequence and not just one kb, but typically 4 or 5.

 

Uvah....

 

NOTE: THIS LINK PROVIDES MORE INFORMATION FOR WINDOWS 8   http://www.ghacks.net/2015/04/17/how-to-remove-windows-10-upgrade-updates-in-windows-7-and-8/

In Windows 7:

1. CONTROL PANEL - PROGRAMS AND FEATURES - on the side, click VIEW INSTALLED UPDATES

2. In the list that appears for the list of installed WINDOWS UPDATES, scroll down and locate the following updates in WINDOWS 7
 

KB2952664 
KB2990214
KB3021917
KB3035583   

 
VERIFY EACH KB NUMBER BEFORE CONTINUING

3. UNINSTALL EACH UPDATE YOU FIND  - NOTE: When asked to reboot select LATER and continue until all those are uninstalled and remove them in the ORDER shown above

THEN REBOOT

Go back and check to see if those updates are all gone in the system..   if they are then check and see if you can still connect to Windows Update...    IF BOTH ARE TRUE SKIP TO #6 BELOW AND HIDE THE UPDATES AT WU.      You are done

If KB2952664 has come back or appears again, OR you cant connect to Windows Update and get a ERROR continue with #4 below after uninstalling KB2952664 again

Here is the kicker..  if you UNINSTALL KB2952664  many systems cant connect to Windows update anymore!   Really MS?  Punishment or dimwit strong-arm tactics?

4. Run this MS FIX IT tool

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/windows-update-error-8000ffff [ignore the reference to Vista]

Run with the check box aggressive mode unchecked, let it finish, close and then rerun the tool again with the check in AGGRESSIVE

5. Once finished, reboot

The above repairs Windows update from not being able to run but BE AWARE it will CLEAN/FLUSH the Windows update 'history' list but wont remove the update list

6. Once rebooted run Windows Update in MANUAL MODE   do not let MS download and install updates automatically..   the updates I noted above should reappear in the list including KB2952664 right click them all and select HIDE

KB2952664 
KB2990214
KB3021917
KB3035583

you will no longer be prompted to install those hidden nonsense updates unless MS decides to try and slip them back in again and Windows Update will work fine

For Windows 8 the process is similar.. you can review the link above to remove this garbage

EDIT: If the above FIXIT tool fails and you still can not connect to WU, Try this tool:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/947821/

Download the correct version x32 or x64 and let it repair WU. It will request you install a KB and then it will run a aggressive scan to fix issues.

It can take 10 minutes and up to 3 hours to run sometimes so if it appears to hang at like 85%, its still running..  reboot when it finished and recheck WU and don't worry about the MSfixit tools

 

 

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DrJBHL
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Reply #32 October 20, 2015 11:04:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Hey, Jafo, you were right, Microsoft couldn't have made it easier to opt out of Windows 10 than that! Even my grandpa (if he was still alive!) would have been able to figure that out and do it (with his eyes closed)... NOT! lol

After all, Microsoft, with all their years of experience in UI design, knows perfectly well that adding a simple check box saying 'I don't want to upgrade to Windows 10 at this time, thank you, maybe later' is something way too complicated for most users to grasp.

So... Q.E.D.

And by the way, that's actually very useful information for those trying to opt out of the Windows 10 upgrade. Thanks.

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DrJBHL
starkers
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Reply #33 October 21, 2015 12:57:20 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Again, I have to agree with Jorge about MS persistence to make user upgrade to Win 10.  Like others who don't want the upgrade 'thingie' in the systray, I hid the updates in WU, but it still came back.  I then did a registry edit - DISABLEGWX 1 - to get rid of it once and for all..... so I thought.

About a week later the 'Get Windows 10' icon was back in the systray.... AFTER hiding the abovementioned updates and performing the registry edit to disable the damned thing.  I can't prove anything, and I've not seen any articles suggesting/proving it, but I suspect MS is piggy-backing the 'Get Windows 10' app with other updates..  Otherwise how would I keep getting it!

Quoting JcRabbit,
reply 26

Another fact is that Microsoft's telemetry is off the charts. The information they retrieve is transmitted encrypted (so we don't know what is actually being sent) and, again, they make it as difficult as possible to opt out of all that data gobbling. There is ZERO transparency here, and you are forced to trust Microsoft that they won't do anything bad with YOUR data (right, and Microsoft has already proved over and over again that it can be trusted... NOT!)

Another fact is that under Windows 10 you cannot turn off Windows updates. This gives Microsoft *total* control over YOUR PC.

Not only can Windows Update not be turned off in Windows 10, the data grabbing can't be, either.  While there are the obvious ones that various tools can turn off, another set exists that most do not know about.  I'd have to troll through hundreds of articles to find it, but I read that the key data collection 'features' are actually built into the shell/core and can not be disabled without rendering the entire OS useless.  I think Martin Brinkmann was one writer, but another was a programmer who commented in the user section of one of those 'stop 10 spying' software download pages.  He said that while users could use the tool to disable the main spy tools on the surface, he had looked deeper into the OS to discover there were others deep within the shell that transmitted pretty much the same material.... and that those could not be turned off.

As for the 'transparency, that's merely on the surface and only reveals what MS wants us to see.  There is much more below the surface and enforced updates, spy features that can't be turned off are a testament to this.  If MS had nothing to hide, why did hide data collection tools deep within the shell... tools that can NOT be turned off?  Another non-transparent thing: MS says the Win 10 setup updates are tools to 'resolve issues within windows'.  Yeah, right!  The only thing resolved is MS' issue of getting Win 10 on as many PC as possible in the shortest time.  For mine, this is false information... if not deliberately misleading.

While some may call it good business [like how], I call it thuggery.  If your local butcher or greengrocer used similar tactics to force you to buy their products over anyone elses they'd be accused of gangsterism and would be charged with various offences.  So why is it different for Microsoft?  Government contracts?  The NSA and/or other agencies?  1984 anyone?

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I install Win 10 on any of my machines.  At 63 [almost], I reckon Win 8.1 still has a few years of supported life, given it is younger than Win 7, and hopefully will last pretty much as long as I'll need it.  If not, I don't think Ubuntu, Mint or RoboLinux are going anyplace anytime soon.

Another reason to avoid Win 10 like the plague, it is warts n' all butt ugly and should be declared a health hazard for its nauseating appearance.  As for ads in the start menu... er, purchase suggestions, not on my watch. 

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DrJBHL
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Reply #34 October 21, 2015 7:25:58 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Jorge:

Adobe's Ps,Lr, etc. will stop working w/o the monthly fee, too. True, your's isn't on a rental model, and I didn't say it was. Your licensing is yearly and allows updates for that year. None after, and that's fine as everything works...wasn't complaining.

As for MS? So, before it stops working, you migrate to another OS. Not the end of the world by a long shot. You can even roll back to W7 (if you had it on the machine to start with, or a viable backup...

It's unfortunate that the thread originally purposed to advise people of an option I noticed on the web has gotten acrimonious. 

All this thread was supposed to do was to acquaint people with limited incomes of a deal...and that was all.

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DrJBHL
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Reply #35 October 21, 2015 8:46:11 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 34

It's unfortunate that the thread originally purposed to advise people of an option I noticed on the web has gotten acrimonious. 

Agreed, 100%

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DrJBHL
Uvah
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Reply #36 October 21, 2015 9:24:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

@Jafo......thank you muchly.

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DrJBHL
starkers
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Reply #37 October 21, 2015 10:48:12 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 34

It's unfortunate that the thread originally purposed to advise people of an option I noticed on the web has gotten acrimonious.

All this thread was supposed to do was to acquaint people with limited incomes of a deal...and that was all.

Sorry, Doc, It wasn't meant to turn out that way.  Like you, I wanted to inform people of things I'd experienced and/or learned.

Still, this is your thread, so I'll bow out quietly now and let it run its own course. 

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DrJBHL
JcRabbit
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Reply #38 October 21, 2015 2:17:09 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Ditto.

Although I don't see a problem in discussing these things; nobody is upset, I think.

Seth: yes, but if Adobe stops working, that is all I lose access to. Plus I would have had to opt in for Adobe as a service in the first place, of course.

If Windows stops working, on the other hand, I won't be able to run *any* application, even though those other applications have been paid for and are mine. Big difference.

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DrJBHL
Wizard1956
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Reply #39 October 21, 2015 2:25:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Doc, you may want to note that ALL the qualifying purchases are laptops. There are no offers of any discounts on desktops whatsoever. (Good thing as shipping would be a real hassle and expense.)

 Thanks for the post but I suspect most of those products can be purchased at other outlets for around the same discounted price without the need to part with and ship your old one anywhere.

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DrJBHL
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Reply #40 October 21, 2015 3:44:32 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Mentioned that earlier. The source for the article was incorrect about that.

Jorge: As I said...there are other OSs. Windows isn't the only one. If it were, I'd be FAR more upset.

I am irritated that the thread was hijacked. You could easily have started a thread about what pisses you off 

about MS's business practices. The subject of this thread was FAR from that.

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DrJBHL
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Reply #41 October 21, 2015 3:50:20 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

 

Quoting Wizard1956,
reply 39

Doc, you may want to note that ALL the qualifying purchases are laptops.

 

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 40

Mentioned that earlier.

 

As did I.

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DrJBHL
Wizard1956
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Reply #42 October 21, 2015 3:54:19 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 41

 

Quoting Wizard1956,
reply 39

Doc, you may want to note that ALL the qualifying purchases are laptops.



 

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 40

Mentioned that earlier.



 

As did I.

OOPS, so y'all did. guess I should have re-read page one.

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DrJBHL
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Reply #43 October 21, 2015 3:54:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

 

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 40

I am irritated that the thread was hijacked. You could easily have started a thread about what pisses you off
about MS's business practices.

At least he's drawn attention to the thread.   Just a thought.....   

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DrJBHL
RedneckDude
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Reply #44 October 21, 2015 4:08:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Looks like all the deals ended yesterday anyway, FTR. 

 

https://easytradeup.com/us/en/pages/tradeup/terms 

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