Will W10 Updates Become Mandatory?

from JoeUser Forums

 

To understand this, you have to understand that W10 will have multiple editions, each requiring a ‘service branch’ all of its own.

“There are going to be three Windows 10 servicing branches when the product launches: Current Branch (CB), Current Branch for Business (CBB) and Long Term Servicing Branch (LTSB). Different versions of Windows 10 will give users access to different servicing branches.” – Mary Jo Foley

You should read her article linked in her name (also below), because I’m not going to ‘scrape’ her article, nor use extensive quoting. Just know there’s another branch: the ‘Long term service branch’ (the Long Term Servicing Branch, unique to Enterprise devices, allows users to only install security updates and defer any new features).

What it boils down to is this: W10 Home will have to accept (‘Current Branch’) all new features, fixes and updates MS pushes through Windows Update. They will be tested by MS and a public crew of selected testers before they’re pushed. However there’ll be no deferring nor choosing. You don’t accept? It might very well mean voiding your warranty and not receiving further updates.

W10 Pro will have two ‘service branches’: The ‘Current Branch (CB)’ or ‘Current Branch for Business (CBB)’. If CB is chosen, same rules as W10 Home. ‘CBB’ will be able to choose updating through Windows Update, through Windows Update for Business or through Windows Server Update Services. The Windows update for Business will allow Admins more control over how and when they deliver the fixes, patches and new features, but for how long, it’s not clear. In other words, they’ll have a longer leash, but the leash will be there, have no doubt.

The inherent stratification of rights over your own computer and what will go on it is clear.

However, I’d really like to know why MS thinks it has the right to pull this? Oh yeah. The license/OEM agreements. You continue to be a commodity, and commodities have no say, not that we have much of any now.

Also, it’s not clear if you’ll be paying a monthly fee to maintain the privilege of being in this “agreement”. Agreement…lol….and if you don’t pay? You’d better have learned Linux, because I’m betting that if you don’t pay 3 months in a row, your OS will work only in the most basic way.

Also unclear is to what degree they’ll allow you to customize your OS (as to skinning the UI), and if folks know, they aren’t talking. I’m glad SD mitigated MS’s screw-ups, but as to W10, who knows?

All this stuff is “informed rumor” at this stage, but with all the smoke, there’s got to be fire somewhere.

This Windows 8 –> Windows 10 thing started as a disaster, and continues down the same track, if for different reasons. “Resistance is futile”.

Not really: Resistance is Linux…and it’s looking better and better to me.

 

Sources:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/piecing-together-the-windows-as-a-service-puzzle-for-windows-10/

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/15/windows-10-home-and-pro-automatic-updates-could-become-mandatory/?_m=3n%2e0038%2e1609%2ehj0ao01hy5%2e1o42

187,208 views 58 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

How long will I be able to run win 7? 

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Until 2020.

SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Do you know if Deskscapes is working as well with 10 as it is with 8.1 ?

Also does Dream Maker work as well too ?

Anyone Know ?

Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Since W10 RTM isn't out, the answer would be 'wait and see'...right now, only Technical Previews (various builds) are available for trial.

Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

OK , thanks Doc

Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top

We are working with all our products to make them compatible with Win10.  However, nobody will know if we can or not until the RTM is out.  

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting KarmaGirl, reply 6

We are working with all our products to make them compatible with Win10. However, nobody will know if we can or not until the RTM is out.
End of KarmaGirl's quote

Groovy shoes...;)

Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 7

Groovy shoes... ;)
End of Jafo's quote

Ruffin' it. Perfect for tired dogs. ;)

Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 8


Quoting Jafo,
reply 7

Groovy shoes... ;)



Ruffin' it. Perfect for tired dogs. ;)

End of DrJBHL's quote

Yawn with a stretch thrown in.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I see nothing in that first article that applies to consumer editions of Windows, that's purely for businesses.  But frankly I'd be overjoyed if they forced critical updates on home users.  Running outdated versions of Windows (or any other OS, or even most software in general) "because I'm in control of my system" is just dumb.  It's being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn.  Every time somebody asks me to look at their computer because it's running slow it's infected with various crap and has dozens or even hundreds of updates waiting to install.  Our most difficult clients at work are the ones with the most outdated equipment.  

Driver updates are a different story and there's no mention of those in either article.

Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting XavierMace, reply 10

"because I'm in control of my system" is just dumb.
End of XavierMace's quote

Not really...in the case where you don't use MS Office (for example) and patches/etc. are being pushed in the download for it, why should you be forced to accept them? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Microsoft's track record with patches/updates being less than reassuring (see dot.net), removing end-user control over application of updates has disaster written all over it.  Murphy works at Microsoft, after all.

 

Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top

That and MS.NET Framework...

That one is truly infamous. They say they'll have testers in the public before the patches, etc. become available, but that doesn't mean much to me. The way I did the MS.Net Framework updates was I'd wait about 3 weeks and check the status of complaints about it...

With W10, you won't be able to do that.

Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting XavierMace, reply 10

I see nothing in that first article that applies to consumer editions of Windows, that's purely for businesses.  But frankly I'd be overjoyed if they forced critical updates on home users.  Running outdated versions of Windows (or any other OS, or even most software in general) "because I'm in control of my system" is just dumb.  It's being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn.  Every time somebody asks me to look at their computer because it's running slow it's infected with various crap and has dozens or even hundreds of updates waiting to install.  Our most difficult clients at work are the ones with the most outdated equipment.  

Driver updates are a different story and there's no mention of those in either article.
End of XavierMace's quote

Microsoft made two products....a flightsim called 'FSX' and a web browser called 'Internet Explorer'.

Those 'updates' to IE called 10 and 11 BOTH CRASHED FSX.

If Microsoft cannot be trusted not to break its own software with 'updates' then god help us with any actual third party software.

Automatic updates is a pox on computing.

Reply #15 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 11

Not really...in the case where you don't use MS Office (for example) and patches/etc. are being pushed in the download for it, why should you be forced to accept them? That makes no sense whatsoever.
End of DrJBHL's quote

I've never had Windows update install patches for Office when Office wasn't installed on the system.  But lets say it does.  So what?  It may be pointless to have it installed, but it's also not doing any harm.  If it's not doing anything insidious (dialing home, keylogging, etc) why does it really matter?  Any OS (Windows, Linux, OSX, etc) has oodles of stuff installed YOU may not need because it's easier to make one standardized product that covers a wider user base.  So, disabling ALL automatic updates purely because you may get some updates you don't NEED is just silly IMO.

Quoting Jafo, reply 14
Microsoft made two products....a flightsim called 'FSX' and a web browser called 'Internet Explorer'.


Those 'updates' to IE called 10 and 11 BOTH CRASHED FSX.

If Microsoft cannot be trusted not to break its own software with 'updates' then god help us with any actual third party software.

Automatic updates is a pox on computing.

End of Jafo's quote

I've been in IT for 15 years, I've seem more than my share of updates gone wrong.  But temporary inability to use an add-on application vs more holes than swiss cheese in security.  Sorry, latter gets the priority for me.  I'll uninstall an update if it's breaking a business critical application, but I'm not going to leave a system wide open just because some patch in the future MAY cause temporary issues.  Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer updates never break anything.  But I'm not going to walk around with a bullseye on me just because they might.  I've got almost a dozen Windows systems (servers and desktops) at the house that have been auto-updating for longer than I remember.  I don't recall the last time a critical update broke ANYTHING.

I'd also argue that if FSX is using ANYTHING tied to IE, that's a problem with the application.  If GalCiv3 stopped working after an IE update, I'd be asking what it's possibly doing that's using any part of IE.

Outdated systems are a pox on information security.  :)

Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top

You might need to look into FSX....it's quite an 'extensive' program.  You can fly your plane amongst actual air traffic.  The only thing you can't do is look out your window and see BOTH planes flying overhead.  Hooking into realtime ATC is just part of it...it also hooks into [or can do] realtime weather.  BTW....11 is now 'happy' with FSX....I expect another associated update fixed the anomaly.

The only thing I do about Win updates is MAKE those bastards ask me first before they screw with that which they clearly do not understand.

Once upon a time good old Norton AV 2003 decided to update itself and PERMANENTLY disabled the BITS service.

Look it up....it was 'entertaining'....and might even have coincided with your 'IT for 15 years'.

I was still on dial-up and had to download XP's service pack 1 .... as part of the 'cure'.... it was either that or buy a second XP with it on.

I guess the upside was....MS wasn't going to also be fucking with the machine....as BITS was disabled....;p

 

I'm entirely up-to-date with updates [on all 6 machines, though there's probably another 6 or 8 on VM that need revisions]...but I don't install them immediately they are available...preferring others to be the idiot guinea pigs.

Fools rush in....

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Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's not that extraneous 'harmless' stuff (not needed) gets included in updates, it's that updates that ARE important get effed up and hose systems.  If automatic forced updates were the bee's knees, they would apply to enterprise, too.  MS admits as much by creating a tiered update architecture.  It's actually a much bigger problem for home users, nearly all of whom lack the expertise that an IT team can bring to bear on a glitched update, the very users who will have no choice.

Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Daiwa, reply 17

nearly all of whom lack the expertise that an IT team can bring to bear on a glitched update,
End of Daiwa's quote

IT are not mysterious gods of technology....;)

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

:grin: Good series while it lasted.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

didn't i read that you can still disable update? that is.. disable the update service somewhere under the hood

Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting XavierMace, reply 15

I've never had Windows update install patches for Office when Office wasn't installed on the system.  But lets say it does.  So what?  It may be pointless to have it installed, but it's also not doing any harm.
End of XavierMace's quote

It burns space on your disk.

Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Daiwa, reply 17

It's not that extraneous 'harmless' stuff (not needed) gets included in updates, it's that updates that ARE important get effed up and hose systems.  If automatic forced updates were the bee's knees, they would apply to enterprise, too.  MS admits as much by creating a tiered update architecture.  It's actually a much bigger problem for home users, nearly all of whom lack the expertise that an IT team can bring to bear on a glitched update, the very users who will have no choice.
End of Daiwa's quote

Absolutely. The reason they offer 'delays' for Enterprise (that they're NOT telling you) is that if a business gets data truly screwed, they'll sue for damages.

Reply #23 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 16

You might need to look into FSX....it's quite an 'extensive' program.  You can fly your plane amongst actual air traffic.  The only thing you can't do is look out your window and see BOTH planes flying overhead.  Hooking into realtime ATC is just part of it...it also hooks into [or can do] realtime weather.  BTW....11 is now 'happy' with FSX....I expect another associated update fixed the anomaly.
End of Jafo's quote

That didn't actually answer the question/address the point.  Most games these days have online connectivity to varying degrees.  Admittedly FSX is probably one of the most extensive.  But they aren't using IE to do that.  My point is IE should have absolutely nothing to do with FSX.  The fact that an IE update broke the game is as much the games fault as the updates.

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 21
It burns space on your disk.
End of DrJBHL's quote

LOL, that's the best you can come up with?  So does surfing the internet, saving pictures, and playing games.  But I'm guessing you do all of that.

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 22
Absolutely. The reason they offer 'delays' for Enterprise (that they're NOT telling you) is that if a business gets data truly screwed, they'll sue for damages.
End of DrJBHL's quote

It's not because enterprises are playing the waiting game, it's because Enterprises prefer to run a set scheduled update cycle.  I help support 122 different banking organizations at this point in time.  The only ones that aren't installing updates on a regular, preset, schedule are the ones that are also still running XP, Office 2003, Server 2003, ESX 4.0, etc (against our recommendations) and they are the ones having constant problems.

My point was trying to play the waiting game on updates causes more problems than it's worth.  We've seen half a dozen organizations get hit by Cryptoware attacks in the last month that could have been prevented by having properly updated systems.  That caused far more of an impact then rolling back a bad update would have.

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting XavierMace, reply 23

So does surfing the internet
End of XavierMace's quote

That's the best you can do? (just to quote)...and seriously, that's temporary memory...and CCleaner (as well as many others) removes that very quickly. As for pictures? That's something you actually choose to save. 

MS won't be asking you what you want. They're telling you what you're getting and you have no choice. If you knew anything about me, you'd know I don't play games.

Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting XavierMace, reply 23

The fact that an IE update broke the game is as much the games fault as the updates.
End of XavierMace's quote

Yes, and BOTH are made by Microsoft.  If they cannot manage their own products to behave with each other then God help any third party's.