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Will W10 Updates Become Mandatory?

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Will W10 Updates Become Mandatory?

from JoeUser Forums

 

To understand this, you have to understand that W10 will have multiple editions, each requiring a ‘service branch’ all of its own.

“There are going to be three Windows 10 servicing branches when the product launches: Current Branch (CB), Current Branch for Business (CBB) and Long Term Servicing Branch (LTSB). Different versions of Windows 10 will give users access to different servicing branches.” – Mary Jo Foley

You should read her article linked in her name (also below), because I’m not going to ‘scrape’ her article, nor use extensive quoting. Just know there’s another branch: the ‘Long term service branch’ (the Long Term Servicing Branch, unique to Enterprise devices, allows users to only install security updates and defer any new features).

What it boils down to is this: W10 Home will have to accept (‘Current Branch’) all new features, fixes and updates MS pushes through Windows Update. They will be tested by MS and a public crew of selected testers before they’re pushed. However there’ll be no deferring nor choosing. You don’t accept? It might very well mean voiding your warranty and not receiving further updates.

W10 Pro will have two ‘service branches’: The ‘Current Branch (CB)’ or ‘Current Branch for Business (CBB)’. If CB is chosen, same rules as W10 Home. ‘CBB’ will be able to choose updating through Windows Update, through Windows Update for Business or through Windows Server Update Services. The Windows update for Business will allow Admins more control over how and when they deliver the fixes, patches and new features, but for how long, it’s not clear. In other words, they’ll have a longer leash, but the leash will be there, have no doubt.

The inherent stratification of rights over your own computer and what will go on it is clear.

However, I’d really like to know why MS thinks it has the right to pull this? Oh yeah. The license/OEM agreements. You continue to be a commodity, and commodities have no say, not that we have much of any now.

Also, it’s not clear if you’ll be paying a monthly fee to maintain the privilege of being in this “agreement”. Agreement…lol….and if you don’t pay? You’d better have learned Linux, because I’m betting that if you don’t pay 3 months in a row, your OS will work only in the most basic way.

Also unclear is to what degree they’ll allow you to customize your OS (as to skinning the UI), and if folks know, they aren’t talking. I’m glad SD mitigated MS’s screw-ups, but as to W10, who knows?

All this stuff is “informed rumor” at this stage, but with all the smoke, there’s got to be fire somewhere.

This Windows 8 –> Windows 10 thing started as a disaster, and continues down the same track, if for different reasons. “Resistance is futile”.

Not really: Resistance is Linux…and it’s looking better and better to me.

 

Sources:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/piecing-together-the-windows-as-a-service-puzzle-for-windows-10/

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/15/windows-10-home-and-pro-automatic-updates-could-become-mandatory/?_m=3n%2e0038%2e1609%2ehj0ao01hy5%2e1o42

187,208 views 58 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 24

That's the best you can do?
End of DrJBHL's quote

It was just as silly as "it burns disk space" as a reason not to use updates.  This isn't the 90's.  Storage is dirt cheap these days.  If you're so pressed for space that you can't afford the space used by Windows Updates you're doing something wrong.  A bunch of the servers I manage are running on 20Gb vDisks and they manage to "squeeze in" Windows updates.  I mean are YOU serious right now?  $50 will get you a 1TB hard drive.  You sound like my uncle who's still running around with XP SP1 because "they can't make me upgrade".  Jafo at least has a semi-reasonable reason.  If you're that concerned about disk space, you shouldn't be running Windows at all.  There's oodles of Linux distros that are far more compact than Windows.

If you simply want to voice outrage about a perceived violation of your freedom because it's the trendy thing you have to be able to find a better target than this.

Quoting Jafo, reply 25
Yes, and BOTH are made by Microsoft.  If they cannot manage their own products to behave with each other then God help any third party's.
End of Jafo's quote

Sort of.  They may have the same parent company, but Windows and Games are two entirely separate parts of the organization.  The studio responsible for FSX (Aces) doesn't even exist any more.  You're still missing my point though.  There's ZERO reason FSX should be using IE for anything.  Be reasonable and think about this for a second.  If it was your job to update IE, at any point in time would you go "I wonder if this breaks FSX"?  Personally I wouldn't because that's ridiculous that it depends on IE.  That's like replacing your toaster and finding out your microwave no longer works.  Plus you have to keep in mind the age of the game too.  This would be like Stardock updating Fences and me complaining it broke GalCiv2 so I'm never going to trust Stardock's updates again.  Those programs shouldn't have anything to do with each other.

I'm sorry but in both of these cases it seems like you guys are making mountains out of mole hills.  I like bashing Microsoft as much as the next person.  I'm still pissed about the shrink and then elimination of Technet software licenses.  But do you realize the sheer quantity of Windows updates that get released and you guys are making a fuss about a couple of unneeded but harmless updates and one update that caused a conflict with an application that shouldn't have been related in the first place?  I've got Louis CK stuck in my head right now.  Everything is amazing and nobody's happy.  I don't recall the last time I recall a Windows Update that caused a major issue at the home level?  What if we were talking about a car instead of a computer...

You bought a new car and the dealer tells you that it includes free maintenance for the next 10 years.  Even better, you don't even have to bring it in, they do it in your driveway while it's not in use.  They change the oil, put air in the tires, check all the belts, and make sure the alarm works.  But one time, years down the road, they left the oil cap off and put some air in your spare even though you don't use it.  So you call the dealer and angrily tell them you don't want them to ever come out and maintain your car again.  So you're going to throw out years of hassle free maintenance because ONE time out of literally hundreds or even thousands caused you a slight inconvenience.  That doesn't sound like overkill to you?

Before you burn me at the stake for being a Microsoft white knight/apologist, let me say for the record that I've got more FreeBSD based systems at home right now than Windows based.  Updates on them are a far bigger hassle than any of my Windows boxes.  Linux isn't a magical OS where everything just works, you never have to update, and angels greet you every time you turn on your computer.

Then there's also the fact this is largely how Apple has been doing OSX for a while now and frankly I don't recall hearing of any fire and brimstone resulting from it.

I'm sorry, I just don't see where the problem is.

 

 

Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top

XavierMace....I really don't know where to start with regards to all the tripe you posted.

Reality is fact.  IE updates broke my system. End of.

Cars?  You want cars?  Now, exactly how many are currently being recalled because a 'life saver' has actually killed people?  If you have no idea google 'air-bag recall'.

Apple 'doing it'? Like perchance installing catch nets to solve the worker suicide issue?

And yes....I, too am conversant with computers and also lament the watering down of TechNet.

'years of hassle free' is quite wrong. Any time you like....google for update issues....you'll find tomes.  For me the FSX issue was not the first problem with an MS update...and definitely not the first time with updates in general.

They [updates] break things with monotonous regularity.  Anyone conversant with computers disables 'auto update' just so the computer can be sure to be still on and functioning in the morning.  Leave it to MS [and others] entirely and I can absolutely guarantee that sooner or later you will be booting into safe mode to find out what they screwed with THIS TIME.

Meanwhile....enjoy your new [uninvited] icon in your systray that says "Get Windows 10" ...;)

 

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #28 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

So I just woke up this morning to my Windows offering me a "Free Upgrade" from Win 7 64 Pro to Windows 10. This seems fishy to me? Is this something I should do or not?

Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting RavenX, reply 28

So I just woke up this morning to my Windows offering me a "Free Upgrade" from Win 7 64 Pro to Windows 10. This seems fishy to me? Is this something I should do or not?
End of RavenX's quote

No...it's not 'fishy'...it's a genuine MS adware .... go for it if you want to [though it isn't available yet anyway].

The issue is whether it denotes the beginning of the end for 'normal' OS purchase and use....;p

Reply #30 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 29

No...it's not 'fishy'...it's a genuine MS adware .... go for it if you want to [though it isn't available yet anyway].
The issue is whether it denotes the beginning of the end for 'normal' OS purchase and use....;P
End of Jafo's quote


It's Microsoft, it's always "fishy" :P hehe

I did some digging to make sure it's legit, you're right it is, and it is free :) . I went ahead and signed up for the upgrade.

Thing I'm wondering when the time comes is what will happen after it comes out. What if I need to re-install Windows for whatever reason after I've upgraded to 10 Pro, but won't have a disk? Will my OEM from my store bought Win 7 Pro 64 still be good or will it be marked as dead and moved to Win 10, and will I have to buy a re-install disk?

I'm wary of doing a whole OS install this way. I don't have hundreds of dollars on hand if something goes wrong or they try to milk me with this and I can't afford to screw my-self out of my very expensive (when I got it) Win 7 Pro 64.

Good to see you again, Jafo :)

Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting RavenX, reply 30

Will my OEM from my store bought Win 7 Pro 64 still be good or will it be marked as dead and moved to Win 10, and will I have to buy a re-install disk?
End of RavenX's quote

It'll still be good.  Consumer protection rights will see to that.

As to how they manage a roll-out of 'free' 10 keys with which to register....who knows...but with whatever method I'd expect you'll 'own' the right to continue its use.

What we don't know is how [or rather when] the freebie gets paid for.  I'd expect it will be a commercialized pay for everything you might 'want' to add......and all of it from the MS 'store'.

Let's face it. An OS is [in theory] a one-off purchase.  There's no money in that [MS is 'only' really rich].  What is needed [by MS] is a way to have you always paying......forever and a day. [then they'll be really really rich]...;)

Reply #32 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I wondered why they're giving it away for "free". When I bought my copy of Win7 Pro 64 it was like $300. I looked up which one I'd get and according to the article since I have 7 Pro 64 then I should get 10 Pro 64. I just don't want it to "downgrade" anything I'm running especially since it was so expensive. I'd also rather not have to install the new OS, find out I've been downgraded in some say, then have to revert.

I figured they were giving away 10 because they want people off of 7 and 8. Didn't expect it to be "free" though. Thought I'd at least have to pay $100 for the 7 to 10 upgrade or something like that. I went from XP Pro 64 to 7 Pro 64 and there was no "upgrade" option so I had to buy a whole fresh install disk. With all the other bills I'm piling up right now when Win 10 comes out if this free version gimps me I can't afford to fix it.

Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top

Paid $39 each for two Win8 licenses.  Haven't used either one.  As for Win10, free sounds too expensive to me.

Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It will all come down to each individual making a choice as to if they will want to upgrade to Windows 10 and when they upgrade.  As has been mentioned in serveral threads here and other sites it would seem the smart or intelligent course of action if you intended to upgrade is wait a bit, 30 to 90 days, to let the bugs be identified and fixed. 

I didn't upgrade to 8/8.1 but like some other folks have voiced Windows 7 works fine for me so I wouldn't want to screw up my current computing experience by upgrading to Windows 10.

Change will always happen in our life, it's up to us as individuals to make those changes as non-distruptive as possible.   :sun:

Reply #35 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Philly0381, reply 34

It will all come down to each individual making a choice as to if they will want to upgrade to Windows 10 and when they upgrade.  As has been mentioned in serveral threads here and other sites it would seem the smart or intelligent course of action if you intended to upgrade is wait a bit, 30 to 90 days, to let the bugs be identified and fixed. 

I didn't upgrade to 8/8.1 but like some other folks have voiced Windows 7 works fine for me so I wouldn't want to screw up my current computing experience by upgrading to Windows 10.

Change will always happen in our life, it's up to us as individuals to make those changes as non-distruptive as possible.   :sun:
End of Philly0381's quote


Indeed. With me it's a money issue. I stayed with XP Pro 64 for so long that I couldn't just buy the "upgrade" from XP to Win 7 because there wasn't a "upgrade" version. After XP they stopped the upgrade versions from it and you had to have Vista or later to buy a "upgrade" copy. If I had been running Vista or after a "upgrade" would have only cost me a $100 bucks or so. Because XP was so old there was no upgrade and you had to buy a full install $300 and up when it launched.

I just can't afford to drop $300-$400-$500 on a OS or much anything for that matter. Usually upgrades in that price range have to wait for income tax returns before I can drop money like that all at once. If I can I'd like to avoid having to drop that kind of cash all at once on a new OS in the future. I hated Vista though so I'm glad I skipped over it.

Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top

W10 will go subscription only, you won't be able to purchase it any other way. For your subscription you will get continuous updates, forever, and MS will have you by the short and curlies - no subscription = non functioning o/s.

Reply #37 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Fuzzy, reply 36

W10 will go subscription only, you won't be able to purchase it any other way. For your subscription you will get continuous updates, forever, and MS will have you by the short and curlies - no subscription = non functioning o/s.
End of Fuzzy's quote


I just read some stuff that says the "Free Upgrade" is only free for the first year. What does that mean? If I take the free upgrade from my paid Win 7 Pro 64 to Win 10 when it comes out does that mean that my Windows 10 will it stop working after a year and brick my PC?

Edit: Ahh never mind. It seems the "upgrade offer" is only good for a year, not the version of Win 10. Still, the more I'm reading about Win 10 the more I'm finding out about it that I don't think I'll like.

Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting RavenX, reply 37

I just read some stuff that says the "Free Upgrade" is only free for the first year. What does that mean?
End of RavenX's quote

I believe that means once Windows 10 is released the update will only be available free to those that qualify for one year from initial Windows 10 release date.

If you qualified for the free update and waited beyond the 1 year from the original Windows 10 release date to get the update then you would have to purchase it.

Say Windows 10 is released July 1, 2015 and you qualify for the "free update" you would need to update before June 30, 2016 to get it for free. After that you would need to buy it.

Just IMO.

Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top

From what I have read on different sites Hankers is correct.  You have 365 days to decided if you want Windows 10 for free, after that you pay for it.  :sun:

Reply #40 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Thanks guys, yeah that's the way it is. The wording on the site I read that on just threw me off. That and knowing Microsploodge the way I do I almost thought they'd deactivate everyone's Windows a year later and then demand money to turn it back on.

Looking at this Win 10 it looks like it's chalked full of backdoor corporate spyware. They're even attaching biometric identifiers to it...WTF. This is getting WAY too intrusive for my tastes. I already know most of the corporate tricks they use to track you and what you do and How to turn them off. This shiz is getting ridiculous though.

Reply #41 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 27
Anyone conversant with computers disables 'auto update' just so the computer can be sure to be still on and functioning in the morning.
End of Jafo's quote

Ok, I can't even take you seriously any more.

Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 27

They [updates] break things with monotonous regularity. Anyone conversant with computers disables 'auto update' just so the computer can be sure to be still on and functioning in the morning. Leave it to MS [and others] entirely and I can absolutely guarantee that sooner or later you will be booting into safe mode to find out what they screwed with THIS TIME
End of Jafo's quote

Truer words have not been spoken..... ;)

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Fuzzy, reply 36

W10 will go subscription only, you won't be able to purchase it any other way. For your subscription you will get continuous updates, forever, and MS will have you by the short and curlies - no subscription = non functioning o/s.
End of Fuzzy's quote

 

nonsense. it's ~$120 for win 10 home at retail. it looks like buy once and it'll be updated for that machine until they do something else different with their model i guess (definition of machine/device is unknown... no word on reinstall, etc). i don't think they'll be pushing sub model for home user any time soon (home/pro)

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-goes-public-with-retail-pricing-for-windows-10-home-pro/

Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I keep getting popups asking me to register for my free update to W10. I have W7 at the moment.

They even appear on the Windows update in control panel.

I ran a program compatibility check with the Microsoft app and it tells me that I will have to uninstall Deskscapes and Logon studio.

I am using Deskscapes 3.5 and logon studio 1.7.

Any advice appreciated

Cheers

Macca

Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top

Aussie007 -

Take a look at this post/thread for what you need to do to get rid of the nags.

Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting RavenX, reply 28

So I just woke up this morning to my Windows offering me a "Free Upgrade" from Win 7 64 Pro to Windows 10. This seems fishy to me? Is this something I should do or not?
End of RavenX's quote

RavenX! Yo!

Good to see you! Hope you're feeling better. :)

Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Daiwa, reply 45

Aussie007 -

Take a look at this post/thread for what you need to do to get rid of the nags.
End of Daiwa's quote

Thanks for that

My main concern is if I install windows 10 will I lose Deskscapes and Logon studio

Macca

Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Fuzzy, reply 36

W10 will go subscription only, you won't be able to purchase it any other way. For your subscription you will get continuous updates, forever, and MS will have you by the short and curlies - no subscription = non functioning o/s.
End of Fuzzy's quote

 

Reply #49 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I don't think W10 will go to an annual fee model- that would generate a revolt/mass piracy.

I do think MS is going to use W10 to market other Microsoft product.

 

The automatic updates- as long as you can set the machine up to not reboot until you wish it, that's ok as well.   That's the real problem with Windows Update- the nagging to reboot can kill work that needs to be done.

 

I suspect Stardock's W10 wishlist from customers is going to be disabling the nagging, and allowing for non-instant reboots/controlling when you reboot in terms of updates.

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

at least that's one thing sort of answered....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9334/microsoft-confirms-you-can-clean-install-windows-10-after-upgrading

 

 http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/06/yes-youll-be-able-to-do-clean-installs-of-the-free-windows-10-upgrade/