Technically fun, Playably boring

Why GA3 is uninspiried

I have spent decades playing strategy games, and playing turn based strategy games in particular. Some get the balance right between pacing, tension, story, and pretty, and others don't. Ironically some which are remakes of originals lose something and their predecessors rate as a better game. What is lost is - in my opinion - what GA3 has lost. I've been waiting for a good sci-fi strategy so when GA3 popped up on the radar I thought - yes! Then I played it, and I was left feeling like I'd wasted my time. I of course understand that this is Beta, but if this is where Beta is then I'm afraid it's failed. 

Do I have advice on how to fix it? Maybe, I'm no game developer, I'm a scriptwriter for film and TV. But I want to work, so here goes: 

 

The focus of this game seems to be on the coding technology behind the game, and on areas that are of no significance whilst the elements that will help create an experience outside of mathematical calculus has been forgotten. That's the basis of my review here. If you disagree you can stop reading. 

 

1 - Interface

The interface is crude, and far to text driven. (I know the roll over windows are a work in progress). Why do I need to go to Govern to see my next income when a + or - or green or red value over the total I have would tell me the same information at a glance? Although I really enjoy the build column, that information isn't as important to me as recent galactic events. But more on that later. There are other points to the interface that could be displayed in smaller, visual holders rather than be hidden behind tabs. Only accountants like tabs. Players like instant response. 

 

2 - It's a race

Unless I missed it, GA3 like almost all other turn based games turns into a race. Technology is key here, as once the AI had a fleet bigger then mine, they camped my shipyards and politely prevented me from playing any game other than diplomacy. But diplomacy didn't offer a solution to the campers. When I heard about the idea of a council who would allow you to vote on galactic events I thought - finally a sci-fi game that actually realized governments know a lot of junk about one another, and here now, is a chance to politically dominate a game, rather than race to get lasers and rail-guns. This for me is where the Galactic Events comes into play. Asking me to vote on whether trade should get a boost, without me knowing how much trade the OTHER races is currently engaged in, is really just another math calculation on how much trade I want, blinding serving my own interests rather than the galaxies. To me a diplomatic solution should have a step before the vote is cast - the REAL diplomacy. Today's vote is on preventing integalactic tech exchange - OK... where are the Yor and their bribe to my civilization to vote against it? If I don't know how the vote will affect my other players, and only myself, it's not diplomacy. Furthermore - it might have been a hidden math equation - but each time I voted I got no sense of how my vote was influencing the other powers. Was I voting positively - and did it have an effect on the races it favoured? If so, did they show some kind of begrudging respect over time? If they did, then I wasn't able to find it on the various screens. To me - if I vote on something, I want to get feedback from my opponents, and have it mean something. 

Polling is another option that could be a credit sink for the players economy but also provide a tension point, and be a great way to get some idea of galactic standing. A poll could be launched to get a sense of what the other powers think of you. Not in terms of 'they are preparing for war' but in terms of reception. They are cold towards you, they are warm and welcoming. In other words a pseudo-psychological response (using buckets of maths I'm sure to work out). But the response will let me gauge how I am doing within the game from that perspective. Having a race that I vote with almost all the time suddenly declare war does not inspire my vengeance, if makes me wonder what the point is of the whole diplomatic link is. And this is a problem that a lot of strategy games have. 

To alter the diplomacy of the game to take the above into account, or an idea of the above, would seem to me to work within the program. But what it would do is give me hope that if I'm not winning the race technologically, or in a land-grab scramble - I might still work my way into the diplomatic ranks. 

 

3 - Scientific fact...

Science is another area where I feel consequences to my actions would make for a more thrilling game. Here I have to say that the vast array of tech available is great. The tech itself isn't. I didn't find a quick display of the advantage some tech would give me versus others. Kinetic weapons work better against... shields? I understand that I'm an idiot when it comes to games that require me to put 1+1 together, but if I mouse over a tech, at a glance I should know it's full purpose for being in the game. It was interesting that there was no tech-tree. Just hidden tech after tech after tech with no end in sight. The Age progress bar means nothing, and I passed into new ages not knowing why or how, or of the benefit or consequence thereof. It was just a bar that filled up. This again comes back to interface - if it doesn't enhance my experience of tension, excitement, anticipation, or revelation what is the point? It's just another text box of math. So the science stuff is cool, and I like that you have an element of unknown but again - it's a race for weapons, for hull size, and then for other stuff. In my last game I ignored planetary development research and only focused on weapons and engineering. I won without breaking a sweat. 

Now science is not an isolated arena. If a government on Earth today were to begin working on weapons of mass destruction - the rest of the world would politely point theirs at them and tell them to stop. On the other hand, a government who develops new agricultural methods is hailed as a green peace loving nation. My own government can't rule a country but globally are seen as the greatest architects for peace and reconciliation ever. In other words - science should influence Diplomacy. And I should be warned as a player - if the other nations discover you're building improved kinetic weapons - this will have a negative impact on your next vote when asking for tech sharing, or for something where having an arsenal of weapons might be useful. 

 

4 - Ship designer or galactic overlord, but not both

What an awesome idea, for a great waste of time. This is a turn based strategy game, but the micromanagement of starships is now a thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm an artist so I loved the idea of custom designing my own ships... but then realized that I'm not playing starship simulator 2015. And once I'd researched the massive array of ships - which need to be categorized please guys - support, assault, exploration or whatever to prevent me having to scroll through endless text to find the ship I want - I realized that my own little custom ships didn't prove me with any real advantage outside of the micro environment which space combat isn't about. This leads me to consistency - why can I micromanage my ship design but then nothing else? 

 

5 - Consistent graphics

In script-writing we have a golden rule - be consistent. Don't change a character half way through. What GA3 has done is given me a mix of graphics. This could be because it's beta, but I somehow suspect it isn't. The planet graphics remind me of a 1990's game called SW: Rebellion. The galactic map has beautiful glowing nebula, tiny swirling motes of light on strat resources (which I don't see a point to except to make me build useless starbases) and the map looks good (PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE NOODLE GOD ALLOW FOR ASWD NAVIGATION ON THE MAP). But the planet renderings for building location are beyond basic, cartoonish, and dull. 

The rendering of the aliens is inconsistent too. Here are the Yor you look like amazing killer robots, here are the whatever, who look amazingly photo-realistic, here are the Drengen - who are space orks, and look like they've been designed by them, and here are the humans, caricatures of real humans. This doesn't make sense. I'd admit graphics are a thing for me. But keep them consistent. 

 

6 - Musical flavour

How beautiful and wonderful it is. For a game that cost me $50 I expect in the future to have music for each of the races. And although there has been a great attempt to make the ships, bases, and aliens look different, the style of writing chosen for them, for their diplomatic responses is not. It's a weak attempt to make the orks sound brutish, but really I didn't get a sense of difference. When playing a race, apart from the skin, I didn't get a sense of this is different. It is possible, there are countless games, going all the way back to ST: Birth of the Federation who got racial distinction and atmosphere perfectly. 

 

7 - The written worden

There are times where the text is formal, grand, and scientific. There are times when I feel as if I've stumbled into a coffee shop and met a bunch of 15 year olds. Formal and informal text proliferate. It doesn't make sense. The 'Huh' response before the universal translator is developed (WHICH PLAYS NO PART IN THE DIPLOMACY COUNCIL VOTING) seems foolish.

The robot helper who is the same for all races, informs us of fairly useless information when we finish researching something, and does so in a laxidasical fashion. It would be better, it would help me anticipate the game turns more if it promised of future tech, in a meaningful way.

There are spelling issues, or missing words, but hey, that's to be expected. But again, it feels like there is no plan, no desire to make it feel personal, to create atmosphere, or push tension. It's just text because we need to fill in the math boxes with something. 

 

8 - WTF Opening

What does the opening, apart from pretty graphics have to do with anything? There is a crusade coming? It doesn't speak about diplomacy, it doesn't talk to science revolutions, and it doesn't give me as a player a sense of what it's all about. It's a mechanical opening. Strategy games very seldom have a narrative, but they does provide for one. TW:Rome has very little narrative except you are trying to turn everyone Roman, or Gaulish etc. You have a sense of purpose. And you see your family grow and die, and flourish and fail. Other games have similiar things, or micro-stories about a research arm that could lead to greater things. There is a sense of progression. GA3 is a sense of race to the end, with zero narrative. This is fixed simply with small narrative texts that have a clear link and progression. But it does require someone to plan out those stories, and to focus on bringing tension and story to the game, and I'm not sure I get a sense that that is what is happening.

 

In conclusion I think that GA3 has all the making of a really awesome, truly inspiring galactic game, but falls short when it comes to player experience because the focus has been on technical wizardry that only a few will appreciate and not on player expectation and emotional investment. In my opinion if something isn't done to create a sense of emotional connection between me the player and the game then this is just another bland strategy game that pales in comparison to it's present day competition, and falls very short of the classic benchmarks set by games in the early 2000's. 

 

If any of the above already exists in the game and I haven't seen it, or it's hidden behind some text box tab, then it simple means it isn't obvious enough to the casual player, which is ultimately where the money comes from. 

13,447 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top

"GA3" = "GC3" ?

 

Otherwise, having read your post - I really like it.  Not because I necessarily agree with most of what you said (which isn't to say I specifically disagree, I'm just not that opinionated about most things), but because it's an excellent summation of what needs still needs work for it to be presentable to non-GC2-veterans (which most of the people on this forum are).

 

A lot of what you mentioned are known issues (and are in various stages of completion), but it's good to have a refresh of 1st impressions, and a reminder that there's still work and polish to be done. 

 

This is still a beta and things are coming along - it's always helpful to see what people's honest impressions of things are.

 

cheers,

Reply #2 Top

Very good post, here are my thoughts on some of your points:

2) Couldn't agree more. UP is really underdeveloped and few turns between an issue being proposed and the vote in which you can influence people's vote through diplomacy would be a HUGE improvement.

3) There is a tech tree (get to it through a button on the default research screen), and if you found it, it would have answered your question about tech ages. Basically tech ages are a hard lock on certain techs that cannot be researched until you reach the appropriate age.

4) You shouldn't have to micromanage your ship design. It is purely optional and you can be very successful using only the computer-generated ships, and you can be optimal simply refitting the pre-made hulls.

5) I do not see the same inconsistency in graphics that you do.

7) lots of misprints in the beta, but in terms of tone, maybe I'm just used to it, but I like the humor that appears and don't mind that it isn't everywhere. This was very much the tone of GalCiv II as well.

8) opening is an intro to the campaign which we will probably not see until release.

Reply #3 Top

Some get the balance right between pacing, tension, story, and pretty, and others don't. ... Then I played it, and I was left feeling like I'd wasted my time. I of course understand that this is Beta, but if this is where Beta is then I'm afraid it's failed.

Not really; it's right on schedule.  Stardock is wrapping up the phase in which they pour 100% of effort into implementing new game mechanisms, which means 1-5% toward playable game balance.  Many placeholders still exist, and you've found most of them.

Progress from here will be highly non-linear, compared to what came before.

Unless I missed it, GA3 like almost all other turn based games turns into a race. Technology is key here, as once the AI had a fleet bigger then mine, they camped my shipyards and politely prevented me from playing any game other than diplomacy.

You're judging two placeholders, whack-a-shipyard and diplomacy :)  Once they're replaced with the actual production algorithms, that will invalidate your review.

GC3 will still be a race of some kind, but after the balancing is fully in place, hopefully it will be less sensitive to expansion and tech leads.

I didn't find a quick display of the advantage some tech would give me versus others ... It was interesting that there was no tech-tree ... The Age progress bar means nothing, and I passed into new ages not knowing why or how, or of the benefit or consequence thereof. It was just a bar that filled up. This again comes back to interface - if it doesn't enhance my experience of tension, excitement, anticipation, or revelation what is the point?

This GC3 Beta is notorious for having little-to-no documentation.  Recall that the GC2 boxed edition came with a thick little booklet of ~150 pp of info.  GC3 will have at least that much, maybe 250 pp.  But not yet.  Anyways, Stardock's in-game UI was never meant to be stand-alone self-explanatory, and it -- succeeds at that :)  Some critical game concepts will require that you just read some off-line docs, either a PDF or a printed booklet.

There is a tech tree, but you must (gasp) click twice to drill down to it.  If you remember the GC2 wall poster that came in the box, the GC3 tech tree still looks like that.

  1. From the main map, click Technology in the upper left.
  2. In the tech robot screen, click Tech Tree in the lower left.

Ages are a new mechanism in GC3, which you can learn about by browsing these Forums, or waiting for that booklet.

In my last game I ignored planetary development research and only focused on weapons and engineering. I won without breaking a sweat.

Placeholder AIs just sit there and do nothing :)  Once they get replaced with more mature iterations of the actual AI, their economies should improve until they surpass such a naive strategy.

... why can I micromanage my ship design but then nothing else?

That's Stardock's chosen niche.  GC3's premise is a 64-bit DX11(?) graphics engine that looks lovely, with player-customized ship designs, and (here's the kicker) it actually renders your ship designs on the map.  That's how they've chosen to differentiate from other games.  You are correct in noting that ship design is purely a vanity feature, with zero effect on game play or combat.  Hence, you have the choice of spending as much or as little time on it as you like.  Some players will choose to spend hours creating ship art.  Me, I just slap components on in 1 minute.

... [GC3] falls short when it comes to player experience because the focus has been on technical wizardry that only a few will appreciate and not on player expectation and emotional investment.

Well, in a way you're exactly right :)  The GC3 schedule has always been that they will go to Public Beta with many major game engine features Not Yet Done, and then deliver them gradually throughout the Beta.  They've done that, with only a couple of slips.  Pacing, balancing, flavor, and the production AI are all still in the queue, and always have been.

Come back for Beta 4 (Jan end of Jan or sooner) and Beta 5 (Feb/Mar?), and re-assess.  I'll think you'll find that most of your review no longer applies.

Reply #4 Top

Completely disagree with 4 and, semi-agree with 5 and 3, and pretty much agree with everything else that was said. I should also say that I often find Early Access titles are NOT fun... and I don't find myself putting that much time into GC3, simply because it is still rather bare in terms of features and balance, among other stuff. So to say that GC3 playability is 'boring' is a tad unfair as really that is what you get for Early Access. You've not got the full product and many things are still WIP.

 

Regarding ship design: Having being a big fan of the ship designer of GalCiv 2, if the devs ever decided to scrap that feature, replace it with something less grandiose or just butchered it, well, that's me done. I'm sorry but the ship designer is fantastic, and yes, as someone else already said, it's mainly a vanity thing. But it's something that for those who like to dabble in ship design, and it is purely optional. In no way shape or form are you ever forced to actually go and micromanage your ships. If you choose to do so, then that is your prerogative. Ship designer is a big feature of GalCiv that makes it stand out amongst other games, purely from a vanity point rather than say, a technical aspect when compared to the likes of Distant Worlds or Stardrive.

 

Regarding Scientific Fact: Paul has said before on streams that the tech tree is still being developed, so some leeway should be given, but I do essentially agree that more information needs to be provided on what the techs do and more feedback on them is needed. The idea that science should influence diplomacy is a good one too, but would need to be a bit more carefully balanced. A race that devotes their time to say 80% warfare research should be looked at very closely and possibly tied to events. A race that just happens to be pumping small amounts of research in military techs shouldn't really get noticed as much, but essentially yes, it would be nice to have science influence diplomacy to some regard, as long as it doesn't punish the player for choosing specific paths, but instead makes it interesting.

 

I see where your coming from in regards to graphics - But rendered leaders and planetary buildings are a completely different ballgame and if your asking for the same sort of quality to be used for the planetary buildings, etc, then that's going to increase development time significantly, I'd imagine. And Stardock seems to operate a risk vs reward when it comes to choosing what goes in and what doesn't, and I really do not see them making much improvement in this area for the sake of consistency, which to be perfectly honest, isn't noticed by all. If anything it can be improved but wouldn't expect the same quality to that of the leaders. I don't know if the placeholder assets are entirely gone yet, as it has been mentioned several in-game art assets are placeholders so there's that too.

 

Interface - Yes, this does need improvement. Whether or not they got that apparent 'interface expert' to work with them yet is another thing, but this is something that I expect will be improved as development continues.

 

Intro - Not mad about the GC3 intro. It's sorta, well, 'meh'. But then again I've never played the GC2 campaign. It just never interested me, so I'd go straight into the sandbox mode. I do agree however that the intro should also play into the hands of players who do sandbox. As in, demonstrate that the game isn't just about narrative in a TBS game, and show the other side to it. This is one area that could be improved upon. But it's mainly for new players, as I could care little about it, so it is probably more of a marketing decision to showcase the game in a different light.

 

Writing - This is one aspect of the game that I've brought up before in a thread. I'm simply not a fan of the comical but not funny commentary or the 'cute' evil squirrels that were present in GC2. Writing in GC2 wasn't great. It was simple, blunt and got to the point. I feel that's the approach the devs are taking with GC3 as well. Which I don't mind, it just be a shame if they didn't up their game and increased the quality in writing to be more current and in with the times rather than the old 80's style of sci-fi comical goofyness that GC2 employed. It doesn't need to be dark, depressing and mature. It just needs to be sensible and immersive.

 

Reply #5 Top

2. Its a race. Your point? If you are not looking to play a game where you compete against AIs or other players, then maybe you should look for a different game. Your opponents will seek to dominate the map and exploit whatever they can, and even act to deny you an advantage if they can't exploit it. Racing to collect planets and resources is one way to get an advantage. Playing smartly (like not spreading yourself too thin) is another way to get an advantage. In GalCiv 2, there wasn't only 1 way to win, there were several. Depending on the situation, some options might be more valid than others.

4. Ship Designer. The game can and does design ships for you. They use the latest technology. You get warships for every hull size you can build (except cargo), and you get several warships for each level. Ships for lasers, railguns and missiles. The game may design additional combat ships beyond that. It will also design a few non-combat ships. At no point do you actually need to design your own ships as the game has you well covered. If you have a problem with a design, you have the option to fix it yourself. For me, I've long stopped bothering to design my own ships (well most of the time anyways).

That said, I would like to be able to tell the game how I would like my ships designed, or be able to ask for new classes (like a sensor ship). I might decide for instance, that I need sensor range and ship range more than I need a lot of weapons. In another instance, I might decide that I need ships for local defense so I need to max out combat ability.

8. WTF opening. The game has been following a story since the first game. That opening was another page in that story. This story has influenced the game in regards to what civs and techs are available, and which sides people and civs are on. In this game, it has a big impact on which civs made it to this game. The previous title has lead to some civs being wiped out while others have been conquered. If you haven't played the previous games or the campaigns, then the opening is probably meaningless. Not a big deal since the real appeal of this kind of game is the sandbox mode. You generate a random map with certain options set and you pick your competition. You then try to figure out how to win (or lose without embarrassing yourself).

Reply #6 Top

Quote: "GO AWAY, YOU MAKE NO SENSE!"

 

'_;

Reply #7 Top

I think this was a great write-up and appreciate the OP's input. I have no idea what to think about it because most of the time I have no idea what I was thinking.

Reply #8 Top

Feedback is always appreciated. :)

Reply #9 Top

The game has been sitting on my desktop unplayed since the first couple days of Beta 3, and I've not been sure why. I think the OP's general point, the lack of narrative and emotion in favor of a bunch of number crunching, might be the reason. I can't play a match and create a story to make my and my opponents' actions believable. Maybe by appending my match to the end of the lore I can come up with a reason for the Drengin to go to war with me. But that's lazy.

I want to make a story. I want the Drengin to declare war on me because for the last two years I've been sponsoring an underground railroad to free their slaves, but the tipping point happened when I made a research treaty with the Iconians and gave them advanced missle weapon technology, which the galaxy knows the Drengin are weak to, in exchange for them voting in favor of sanctions against malevolent races in the next UP, a resolution that didn't have enough votes until this late minute back-room deal. Yes, I suppose I could fabricate such a story based upon what's going on, but I'd rather the gameplay drive the story, not the other way around.

Yes, I know it's beta and there is a lot of work in diplomacy, AI, and balance to be done. I will wait patiently for the game to release. Here's hoping for significant replayability improvements to come.

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Reply #10 Top


While there is a lot in the op's post that I either disagree with, might not agree with, feel that he's expecting a google style"beta" or something else, his diplomacy & UP point makes me nod a bit at a few points and wonder about some things
• I wonder if more of the upr's should have short/victor targeted cease fire addendums included
• up has a definite tendency to be owned by one faction given time. I think that the instant leader chooses upr>everyone votes cycle contributes to that  and that a period of wheeling and dealing to buy/sell votes between choice of resolution & vote on it would be a grew addition.
•not having a way for the non-up heads to push for a vote on a upr reduces the value for the other n-1 races not leading the up :(

Reply #11 Top

I totally share your oppinions about GC3 at the current state. '+' for it!

 

Have the game now for a couple of months and testing it. Till last patch 0.70 it was a rock of stability and turned now into the opposite with unexpected CTD's.

 

#1, if you watch how far Stardock is advanced to offer programs to organize Windows...why they aren't grabbing some of those ideas to use it for GC3? A different UI color for each alien race...well that's kind of 80's, isn't it?

 

#2, is the part I really got upset the most. Game is just a catch-as-catch-can instead of calculating your resources and think about a expansion strategy. You simply rush out and never stop.

 

#3, I can't find anything surprising. I mean...if you research something...let's say engines. While testing your scientists might get the idea of something complete different. Something which is not allready layed out in the tech tree. This game deeply needs some inspiration, something what makes players think 'ah' and 'oh' and 'how wonderful'.

 

#4, first of all I was impressed by creating my own shipset, my own 'branding' of ships. Second I realized, that my concepts couldn't be restored all the time...what a wast of time. Then I realized, that the computer is building a complete set of new designs every single tech you research about ships...so... It is a cool feature to have the designer, but it has to get more use in the game...probably multiplayer may bring some, who knows.

 

#5, I deeply miss different creatable alien races...together with changable graphic sets to have more customization.

 

#6, the sound is allways like a space opera...calms me down, not matter if I'm just one step away from galaxy wars. Not that the music is bad, of course not, I like it, but it may show up with some connection to the current game changes.

 

#7,  I totaly agree...you just can't speak to your neighbours, but you get member of the council and most times you get chairman...with votes from empires at war with you? First council should start, not unlike Civ5, when all empires have met and establish diplomatic contact.

 

#8, haha...yes. Lot's of interesting text, but mostly without any binding to the current game. Ok, beta, sure it'll get polished before release...but the game needs some flavor, some inspiration...something which makes it really unique. 

 

All in all, are the devs maybe too much focused on the add-ons, so the basic game is somewhat cutted down till no one likes to play it? Just a thought...

Reply #12 Top

The cinematic intro represents stupid cliché thinking. There is no originality. It is embarrassing to watch and utterly simplistic. Waste of development time and money and not exactly a show of confidence in Stardocks progress in game design.

Reply #13 Top

Really? I found the intro to be intriguing, particularly since it is filled with tidbits and hints of lore. Really makes me want to play the campaign.

Reply #14 Top

I love the intro.  It's beautiful. I mean, you must realize that GalCiv has a continuing story line, and the intro is giving you a quick rundown of the current state of things - Earth is blockaded, the Arnor are decimated, and the Thalan are still giving cryptic warnings.  Then we get some nice explosions. What more could you ask for?