Flipping planets via influence is too... easy? risk free?

After a planet flips there should be a band of rebels/sabatours that destroy buildings and people while at the same time reduce moral for X turns after a flip.

The whole politics/ideology/influence layer of the game is extremely over-streamlined and lightweight at the moment. It needs to be seriously beefed up to fit a grand strategy title, therefore I am curious what they have in sleeve for us!

So, you're saying, when you peace someone to death, not only should they get angry about it, they should be violent, particularly when it makes no sense to do so?

If you are diplomatically happy with me, and my culture is having a positive impact on yours, you should get angry at me, and enrage, when your citizens love my culture so much they abandon yours?

Xenophobia, historically, doesn't work out so well.

Squeezing sand, is another way to put it.

The influence mechanic does not work in the same fashion as the other mechanics, and shouldn't require anything more than a decent defense, which, as your diplomatic abilities get stronger, won't be required nearly as much.

"The pen has not only defeated the sword, it has humiliated it".

Violence is counterproductive.

For reference, I LOVE influence, and rarely go military, and have been doing so since Gal Civ Ultimate Edition.

It's been awhile since i've played apologies if this is already in

Some races should generate unrest when flipped, remember not everyone is human in this game, so human logic does not need to apply so readily, and saying that not everyone that is human is in the majority view of the planet, in fact most have their own opinion when it comes to other countries, places or locations, let alone entire races.

As an example of how I would do it:

Method 1: The yor should be harder to flip, as you are going against literally programmed behavior, but not generate any unrest when flipped, as their program has been adapted.

Or

Method 2: The Krynn and Altarian are somewhat similar in that they are both religiously orientated, so flipping between the two should be easier. 

1 is easier to implement, 2 allows for more freedom, but you need to take into account modded or custom races. So I would set general types and that races attitude or resistance toward that type. Synthetic, Religious, Militaristic, Xenophobic etc, etc. This does lead to you having to surmise some races however that are more complicated than merely one type of race, in fictional terms more rounded characters.

I played for the first time today. I dont like influence. It is from civilization when you couldnt take over city because in next turn was already back in oponent hands.

Returning to gc3 I took over by influence all enemie planets b4 reserching transportation module. It is way to easy. Also there should be option to shich off takieng over planets by influence.

Not quite.  I think it should depend on the race.  A more aggressive race might be more inclined to do something more drastic.  But there are "non-violent" ways for AI to respond.  For example, cancel a trade route, if they can find a similarly profitable one elsewhere.  They should at least have a "minus 1" in the diplomatic ratings... not so pleased that you they lost an entire planet to your civilization.  It may not cause any violence.  But it should have some impact.

As it stands now... there is no noticeable effect, military or diplomatic.  The AI also doesn't seem to see it coming.  They use their planet next to my planet like a normal thing.  But it is a complete waste for them since, if they don't do anything to counter my influence, they are just building up a planet for me to use.  Having the threat of take over by culture should illicit some response, unless a civ is just too weak to do anything about it - though they might still not be pleased.  Maybe they vote for you a bit less in UP.

I dunno.  I guess I'm just looking for the AI to have any kind of response.

Why not just turn off influence victory. I don't think it is a popular way to win anyway so why include it if you don't like it? Do they still flip if influence is not a victory option? If so that should be fixed.

I doubt an influence victory would be easy with smarter level AI and a big map. I can see that it might be easy on a small map if you can hold off a smart, aggressive AI. Dumb it all down and any victory is easy.

Maybe the improvements should be destroyed and the population gutted say 50%, but other than that...???

Cultural influence is pretty much the way the Roman Empire rose and fell, without a whimper.

I love influence games and victories, but I want it to be balanced and work properly.

If, lets say, a very amicable race is involved with which you have good ties.  One of a few things might happen.

1. If you annex a planet or are about to, a deal might be in place to offer compensation for their loss of resources.  
2. If the other civ is not xenophobic it doesn't mean that just because they like your culture and are massively influenced by it, that they want to be a part of your civ.  I don't see any Canadians wanting to join the US.  Why not also have a way for there to be peaceful and synergistic coexistence without planetary flip?  I dunno how that works practically, but maybe someone else has a better idea.
3. Maybe a civ starts to try to make a diplomatic agreement for no further culture flipping of planets.

I'm sure that are many possibilities of what could happen, not just military or even xenophobic or angry.  I just don't expect the AI to do nothing that would at least make the player think about the possible range of repercussions or reactions.

That's true enough.  In the Roman Empire's case, it seems to me that one problem they faced was the decline of the central power and the lack of logistical ability to hold together so large a civilization with fading loyalty to the imperial myth.  Though, I would suspect that with technology, space-faring civilizations' ability to communicate broadly and quickly, would cause them to be a bit more aware of the boiling water in which they are sitting.  Now, sure, maybe there is a civilization that just won't care.  I suppose that is possibility.  But surely some would care.

At present, yes, they still flip if the influence victory is turned off.

[quote who="charon2112"]

I love influence games and victories, but I want it to be balanced and work properly.

[/quote]

I think this is mainly my concern.  I like influence as a part of a game.  But I suppose it seems that just like all roads to victory, there should be some challenge along the way.  If I flight my to victory, of course, there is resistance.  But I guess the AI issue relates to other victory paths as well.  The use of ascension crystals, for instance.  (Maybe a question is, is the AI trying to "win the game"? If I pursue a non-military road to victory, I want some resistence of some kind, still. In Diplomatic victories, I was allied with different civs which were at war with each other... (it would seem that if you become an ally with one, you can't become an ally with another, even if your relations are still okay).

Why? They are flipping because the people of the planet want to change sides. This makes no sense at all under that context. It is not a hostile takeover. You're approach would make since if they were "forced" to join another civ, but this does not represent that.

Again, this is something that could be fiddled with to be very diplomatic, very "A: This thing happens B: This result occurs unless C: this diplomatic state pre-exists the thing happening x D: Random chance of race who's planet flipped to yours not caring/noticing" or left so the Alterians just merrily whistle and look the other way as planet after planet twerks to your race's Miley/grooves to your race's Lorde/whatever ...

I think the reaction of the Planet's previous owner should be determined by any pre-existing diplomatic state and whatever the state is, your relation should take some kind of hit. Even if all that race does is "We notice ZenithIV has flipped to your culture. Well, we always suspected they were a touch simple. This means you've got something that was ours. We'll ignore this diplomatic slap for 2000BC/some technology..." or something similar.

The US acquired Texas when a bunch of settlers headed over there, then decided they didn't want to be part of Mexico.  Mexico wasn't exactly happy about this - in fact they sent in soldiers to try and quash the revolt.

There need to be some resistances too on the defending factions side.

I think the Yor for example should be more or less immune, which was supposed to be how the GC2 version worked, but it didn't turn out as expected.

The response being somehow tied to the races involved and the diplomatic state seems to make sense.  I'm sure in some places, part of a country splitting of to join another could be done completely peacefully.  In others, not so much.  Just look at Crimea.  

BTW, there is one wild card in the deck. The UPC has the Cultural Preservation Council proposal, by which planets are no longer affected by the influence of another civilization.

If you are President, propose it and it will likely be adopted since the AI doesn't care for influence over their planets. If you are not President and you have been flipping planets there is a good chance it will be adopted if you don't have the votes to stop it. This happened to me in a game and I was forced to go to war instead of finishing a culture win.

In GalCiv 2, culture flipping required that you not only needed over power a planets influence, but do so by a factor of 4x. Once that happened, there would be a random chance that the planet would flip. I hated the last part because the culture flip could happen in 10 turns, a 100 turns, or even 300 turns.

In GalCiv 3, at this time, culture flipping requires you to over power a planet's influence, and then wait 10 turns. It will even tell you how many turns is left before the flip happens. Overall, I prefer this method because I can count on it happening now. You can nerf it and I would still prefer it. Just don't nerf it to the point where no one would bother using it (because I would be one of them).

I also don't like the idea of having to compensate other civs for culture flipping their worlds. If you made the mistake for colonizing a planet where my influence is strong, its your own damn fault for losing it. If I'm aggressively trying to amp up my culture pressure around your worlds, that probably means I'm ready to do so by using aggressive diplomacy (war).

They just need to tweak a few things.  Like DivineWrath said, make it to where you really need to overpower the opposing planet's influence.  Also, there should be buildings and technologies that reduce opposing influence.  And of course, like GalCivII, the AI should eventually go to war with you if you start flipping too many of their planets (especially if you drop a few space stations next to a few of their planets), so long as ships have a chance to flip while in your territory as well.

I would like to say that I dislike the Cultural Preservation Council, since it can block off an entire victory path.  That's like having a Peace Preservation Council that prevents war.  On the other hand, if it just increases the difficulty of flipping planets via culture, from say 4x to 6x or 8x, then I'd be OK with that.

I think about how I would react as a player.

I know I would be upset if you took one of my planets, by any means, but we are talking about influence.

The first time, I would complain at you.  If we are friends, I would forgive you, but I would get resentful.

The second time, I would chew you out with emphasis.  I might respond diplomatically or economically if I can.

The third time, I would flat out warn you of military consequences.

Fourth time, war is declared.  I'm not putting up with it anymore.  For one thing, you are probably starting to win the game and I have do something about that.

I figure the AI should follow some behavior like that with variations according to flavor.  For some, step three is optional.  I hope that diplomatic/economic alternatives will be available.  I hope that some sort of cultural response will be available as well, so that flipping isn't completely inevitable.  As a mostly peaceful player, I find it fun to play with influence effects.  Having the AI competently compete in that field should be great fun.

target erischild for cultural conquest when they have <= 4 worlds 

Flipping planets should have diplomatic consequences, threats and such...but shouldn't cause an AI to immediately attack you.  If I'm playing a influence conquest game, I probably have minimal military anyway, so that would make playing an influence game very difficult if not impossible.

One consequence that has not been mentioned is the fact that when a planet is flipped the shipyard does not flip. This provides a defensible base right next to your planet.

More than half my games are culture victories. Except for small maps very few are won without war. Culture flip is the perfect solution for the mop-up phase, which I hate. It becomes much like surrender at the end of a war when you are overrunning an enemy.