Frogboy Frogboy

16 Engineering hours for LH v1.7

16 Engineering hours for LH v1.7

Greetings!

v1.6 of Legendary Heroes seems to have gone well and we’re now moving on to v1.7.  I’m not sure what the rest of the team has in store for that (it’s Kael’s team, I’m just a floater).  But I’ve got 16 engineer hours of my own time for v1.7 and want to make sure every hour is spent well.  I don’t know how many of you are interested in the sausage factory side of game development but if you are, this is a good chance to see it in action.

These are what I’m spending those hours on:

 

Est Hours Feature Description Status
1 Stamp fix Fix stamp creation for modders, add some new stamps. Done (1)
1 BattleRank overhaul Redo battlerank so that the AI can more intelligently make decisions. Done (1)
1 Leader Update Updated text and specific conversations per player  Done (1)
1 New Spells Add new tactical battle spells/abilities  Done (2)
2 AI tactical Update AI tactical perf  Done (1)
1 Squad size Increase squad size and test  Done (1)
1 Unrest penalties Unrest causes bandits to spawn  Done and then undone (was not fun)
1 Eco balance Update mana/maintcosts/research balance/hero generation  Done (0.5)
1 Wild land menace Wild lands spawn monsters who go after players, get much worse over time.  Done (0.5)
1 AI updates Have AI upgrade outposts, Better army management, Pariden use Arcane monoliths.  Done (1)
1 Gameplay Master Quest harder, Heroes spawn at capital, Nerf consulate, bigger maps  Done (2)
1 Monsters vs. AI Look again to see why AI and monsters aren’t attacking each other (likely a threading issue)  Looked at, hoping new combat rating system might help. (0.5)
1 Pathing Fix the river pathing issue  Done (0.5)
1 Update stamps World less flat, more interesting  Done (1)
 1  Misc.  (bug fixing, fix lockups, lost device, other annoying things I encounter etc.)  Ongoing

 

Watch this thread for updates. I’m going through this thread here for ideas.

As I finish these, I’ll update the chart to let people know. I don’t really get started on this until next week between meetings, accounting, legal, design, software work, etc. Smile

 

Update 1: Friday, May 30

Finished the first half day working on this. Some of this isn't taking as long as I expected (marked at 0.5 hours in the status).

Update 2: End of day

Okay, I've got 9.5 hours into this.  The AI is definitely nastier now with the outpost upgrades. The pathfinding is less annoying for me.  I had a hard lock today that I want to put some time into.  I don't want this to just be new goodies, I'd like to fix some bugs that people have reported.

574,333 views 211 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 25
I would love to see this but I don't think it will happen. The spells are just way to different, they really haven nothing in common. Arcane Monolith, Corruption, and Bloom of Twilight all target very different things.

Yeah fair point, but doesn't hurt to push the case..  ;)

 

Still I don't think some of them are that unachievable.  For me the ideal scenario would be that the AI "considers" casting all spells, specifically in this case the ones that target terrain... and for the ones that are deemed too complicated for the AI, just set the priority to zero.

That way, we can mod extra stuff in.  For example if the AI would cast spells on empty terrain, we can create a spell "Find Gold", which would create a Gold resource in friendly territory on an empty tile.  That sort of thing (not a great example but you get the idea).  There are some cases where it would be super handy... a spell like that can be easily used by the AI.

 

Even something like Corruption is not a big stretch, just an extra option or two in the ValueCalcWrapper for the AIPriority.  For Corruption it might be something that equates roughly to "If NumDeathShards < (NumAirShards + NumEarthShards + NumFireShards + NumWaterShards)" then cast it.

 

Bloom of Twilight, yeah sure fair enough getting complicated... though it would really help the AI if it would try it as someone suggested  :-"

Raise/Lower land.... yep ok that'd be tricky, but just set AIPriority to 0.

 

I'd give up one or two of those other things on the list if it meant we got more of these spells working.  Just my view though (and someone other than GFireflyE has to throw their 2c in  :O )

 

 

Reply #28 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 25

Update mana/maintcosts/research balance/hero generation


On this topic I think Meditation is too good. I always get all my mana from it and never bother upgrading my shards. Once you have a few cities with 2-3 essence you get all the mana you need. Putting it down to +1 mana instead of +1 per essence would work.

If you go this route, there should probably be a 'greater meditation' spell...

OR....add a mana cost to the casting of the spell...so it's an investment.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Leo, reply 9

Super excited to see this list. Those ALL look like great and well needed upgrades. 

 

Any chance we could see something like Heavenfall's needed unitstats (think that is correct term/name, on iPad now, so going from memory, if I was on a PC I'd look it up) added permanently?

I'm not familiar with that mod.  Could you let me know more detail on that?

Reply #30 Top

BTW, forgot about Memorial Day so I won't get to do the next 3 hours (I did 1 hour already) until Wednesday.

Reply #32 Top

I'll have to check it out.

 

BTW, since my earlier comment I went ahead fixed the flat land look:

 

 

 

Reply #33 Top

:smitten:

That is awesome!

 

Ok now im excited.

Reply #34 Top

Sooo, they gave you stuff to do because you begged or because you asked to help? Lol.

 

;)

Reply #35 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 29


Quoting Leo in WI, reply 9
Super excited to see this list. Those ALL look like great and well needed upgrades. 

 

Any chance we could see something like Heavenfall's needed unitstats (think that is correct term/name, on iPad now, so going from memory, if I was on a PC I'd look it up) added permanently?

I'm not familiar with that mod.  Could you let me know more detail on that?

Thanks to halmal for providing a link already, and more specifically... this comment from heavenfall https://forums.elementalgame.com/444737/get;3465598 HF (and many others as well) does a great job of modding this game and Kael has been good about helping out where he can. Mostly wondering if some small change can be done to make it so Kael won't have to update after releases rather than just putting something permanently in the code to ease the use of this great mod.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 34

Sooo, they gave you stuff to do because you begged or because you asked to help? Lol.

 

 

heh.  I am sent where I'm needed but elemental has a special place For me.  They also have me working on software to replace Start8 eventually. There's always cool stuff to do.

We live in amazing times. Thanks to you guys, I can make cool stuff for LH! I really appreciate your support.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 36

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 34
Sooo, they gave you stuff to do because you begged or because you asked to help? Lol.

 



 

heh.  I am sent where I'm needed but elemental has a special place For me.  They also have me working on software to replace Start8 eventually. There's always cool stuff to do.

We live in amazing times. Thanks to you guys, I can make cool stuff for LH! I really appreciate your support.

and we appreciate your hours. ;)

Reply #38 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 36


Quoting DARCA1213, reply 34
  They also have me working on software to replace Start8 eventually. There's always cool stuff to do.

Does that mean that MS is planning on releasing Windows 9 in the near future?

I'm looking forward to the updated stamps! Any chance of tactical map terrain effects being implemented in the future? (e.g. not being able to shoot an arrow/spell through an obstacle)

Reply #39 Top

Please leave xp for bandits, it will give a needed boost to my governor heroes and make it all the more important to have them to defend the homeland.

Also a Bandit Lord sov would naturally pick Rebels as a positive Negative trait to boost his recruiting ability, might make for a fun play style.

And farming in a SP game should be left to player preference.

Agree with GFireflyE on a greater meditation spell but +1 mana per essence is ok for starters.  Especially if there are few shards near your starting location.  

As far as Tarthan guerrilla tactics:  Could their units get a fade into the forest ability that can only be activated when they are reduced to one figure in a stack and lets them leave the battle to fight another day (like the trait Cautious for a sov but applied to individual units).

Also Tarth could have a spell that lets their territory gradually become forested to deter intruders (abob101 has a Nature spell that does this in his Demons and Wizards mod)

 

Frogboy, you are a busy guy, but do you ever play FE:LH with any mods?  Or can you not say as you don't want people to say you stole ideas?

 

Reply #40 Top

saw nerf consulate- the question is how to nerf it.

I think the Dead should get a special consulate as a tech- that might help their AI issues.

 

As for players- my suggestion would be to have consulates reduce global unrest instead of increasing growth.  Consulates should increase in cost for each one you build though.


Right now the occupation penalties and multiple city penalties are so high I always raze. 

 

One crazier idea I had in ghd pzxg, though it might not be doable in 1 man-hour- would be to ditch individual upgrades, and have levels of fort like what AOW3 has, with each level of fort getting bonuses.   The AI I believe would have an easier time with this.  Make consulates a high-level unrest reducer building in the Civics tree if you do this.  Probably too radical of a change though.

 

 Also- Squad Size, I don't think that needs to be buffed at all.   I already think it's often better to increase the size of units than to upgrade weaponry, and it would nerf melee heros more (which is a problem currently).   You'd also need to fix the exploit where increasing the size of units can be done without resources.

 

Reply #41 Top

Alstein:

"One crazier idea I had in ghd pzxg, though it might not be doable in 1 man-hour- would be to ditch individual upgrades, and have levels of fort like what AOW3 has, with each level of fort getting bonuses.   The AI I believe would have an easier time with this.  Make consulates a high-level unrest reducer building in the Civics tree if you do this.  Probably too radical of a change though."


This is a good idea on the AI side, you could make it where the AI just gets certain bonuses at each level while the player still gets to choose theirs.


I would also like to see this for many buildings/shards.  Rebuilding shards to increase mana output is lame, annoying micromanaging.  I could see the argument for study to school, but even that is yawn-inducing.  I especially cringe when I am trying to get my fortress up and running and I have to build 3 different buildings after I research War Colleges to get my troops up to snuff.

Reply #42 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 40
Also- Squad Size, I don't think that needs to be buffed at all.   I already think it's often better to increase the size of units than to upgrade weaponry, and it would nerf melee heros more (which is a problem currently).   You'd also need to fix the exploit where increasing the size of units can be done without resources.

My thoughts also.  Will be interesting to see what Frogboy has on mind on this one.

Reply #43 Top

What would be more interesting is if attack strength didn't scale 1 to 1 with squad size.  Essentially, not everyone can get into the front rank to fight in larger units, so there should be a scalar on attack strength at least.

Essentailly 1-3 in unit = 100% attack strength (attack *1-3).

4 or more in unit = +.5 to attack multiple per additional member, i.e. 5 members in unit adds 3 + .5 +.5 = 4x to attack.

Or some fancy scalar (Example: 4th member +.5, 5th member +.4, 6th member + .3 7th member +.2, 8th member +.1, additional members over 8 adding no additional bonus to attack)

A simpler 'scalar' might be + .5 per member over 3 (to 6), +.25 per member over 6.  So a 9 member unit would deliver x5.25 attack (3 + 1.5 + .75), and a 12 member unit would deliver x6 damage [3 + 1.5 (3x.5) + 1.5 (6x.25)], using this progression.

Larger units will (as usual) take more damage to kill (more guys to kill), but will also no longer deliver overly massive attacks in one shot, using this mechanic.  Larger units will last a bit longer in this environment, than they did before when facing each other, but I don't see that as a bad thing...

This would make a 9 man unit under the +.5/unit rule over 3 equivalent to a 6 man unit r.e. attack strength, with more guys available for damage purposes.

 

This becomes important because, as more members are added to units, Sovereigns and Champions get further outclassed.  They simply can't compete as effectively in a damage x9 environment, if say 9 member units are allowed..

 

This could also be varied by weapon type (i.e. spears lend themselves better to 2nd rank attacks than swords do), but that would be hard to accomplish with just an hour or so of coding... this would be a goal for one of the next DLCs I think...

Reply #44 Top

Some great stuff here!

Larger squads (= at least a bit more epical battles?), bandits spawning, wildlads changes...can´t wait!

And BTW, I will buy the Leader pack DLC once 1.7 is out. To support such improvement, its a fair deal I think :)

Reply #45 Top

Quoting abob101, reply 42
My thoughts also. Will be interesting to see what Frogboy has on mind on this one.

For me, the increased size of the squads is mainly an immersion issue. I think that we for sure need to keep the units - monsters - champions balance, on the other hand giving the player feeling that he fields an epic army.

Reply #46 Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 43

What would be more interesting is if attack strength didn't scale 1 to 1 with squad size.  Essentially, not everyone can get into the front rank to fight in larger units, so there should be a scalar on attack strength at least.

Essentailly 1-3 in unit = 100% attack strength (attack *1-3).

4 or more in unit = +.5 to attack multiple per additional member, i.e. 5 members in unit adds 3 + .5 +.5 = 4x to attack.

Or some fancy scalar (Example: 4th member +.5, 5th member +.4, 6th member + .3 7th member +.2, 8th member +.1, additional members over 8 adding no additional bonus to attack)

A simpler 'scalar' might be + .5 per member over 3 (to 6), +.25 per member over 6.  So a 9 member unit would deliver x5.25 attack (3 + 1.5 + .75), and a 12 member unit would deliver x6 damage [3 + 1.5 (3x.5) + 1.5 (6x.25)], using this progression.

Larger units will (as usual) take more damage to kill (more guys to kill), but will also no longer deliver overly massive attacks in one shot, using this mechanic.  Larger units will last a bit longer in this environment, than they did before when facing each other, but I don't see that as a bad thing...

 

I like the concept, it also ensures that as a larger squad takes damage their damage output doesn't drop as significantly, so while you don't get the same blast output, you get a steadier damage output for more of the battle.

Reply #47 Top

Maybe make it so that cities that don't have enough food for their population gain increased unrest? Always found it kind of odd that if all the farms get destroyed nobody seems to care that they starve.

Maybe also make monsters/lairs near cities increase unrest. Might be complicated though.

Hmm and unrest could reduce city growth (if it doesn't already, never checked).

 

 

 

 

Reply #48 Top

No replacement for the random name generator? Nothing to make the new DLC leaders and factions have correct names when used in the game?

Really?  o_O

 

Cheers,

Sword

Reply #49 Top

Quoting SwordOfJustice1, reply 48

No replacement for the random name generator? Nothing to make the new DLC leaders and factions have correct names when used in the game?

Really? 

 

Cheers,

Sword

 

The The Dead approve this message  :grin:

Reply #50 Top

Quoting BeelzebossErik, reply 47
Maybe also make monsters/lairs near cities increase unrest. Might be complicated though.

Interesting idea. :)