Drengin broken?

Sounds like bad luck.

Also, they'll eat your skin just for suggesting they're broken.

Actually, it's been known for a long time that the AI personality 7 (which the Drengin use) is bugged in regards to colonization. The Drengin seem to get the worst of it, in fact.

Yes, it's been that way since at least v1.96, if I remember correctly.

Still, if the AIP 7 races start out with several habitable worlds within their influence, and there are no other races too close by, then they can work.

So part of the issue could be my map settings? I like stars with habitable planets spread out.. Playing larger, less populated maps..

I have seen people talk about separate AI's does each race have a unique AI?

any suggestions about map settings? Perhaps only play with a few AI's on smaller maps? Or fewer AI's on larger maps? My thoughts were playing with 6-9 on Huge maps, making things more populated for action, but that does not seem to be working well

I find that the Drengin do great with AIP 8.  Hyper-militant and expansive suits them just fine.

  TA or DA?  Drengin?  Drengin are usually one of the most powerful races (DA metaverse games,  9 AI races) against my Altarian Resistance.

There are 4 basic AI personalities: 7 (used by the Drengin, Yor, and Korath), 8 (Terrans, Drath, Thalan, and Krynn), 10 (Torians and Iconians), and 11 (Altarians, Arceans, and Korx). Each race has its own variant on the basic personality, but no one seems entirely certainly what the precise differences are - the big ones are between the 4 top-level personalities.

In TA (and only in TA), AIs 7 and 10 are bugged. 7 won't colonize beyond its own sphere of influence, and 10 randomly stops building improvements on its planets after a while. There's nothing that can be done about AI 10, but playing on a map with a high habitable planets to total planets ratio can make AI 7 competitive. It's also possible to mod the AIs to use a different AI personality.

I personally set the Drengin to AI 8, the Yor to AI 11, and leave the Korath on AI 7 because it's the only personality that knows how to use spore ships.

There are six in total: 5 is used by the minor races, and 3 is used by the Dread Lords.

It will, but only if there is no threat from foreign influence. There are also some other exceptions to this, but I haven't figured out their cause.

Playing on a map with a very low habitable planet count works surprisingly well, too. In my last game on a Immense map, every race had only two to three planets, and the Drengin (along with the Arceans) were the galactic leaders. Well, at least until the Drath began their manipulations and several random events happened.

I can understand changing the Drengin to AIP 8, but the Yor on AIP 11 is just cruel. AIP 11 is pretty bad at handling deficits and using morale improvements. AIP 7, on the other hand, is the best AI at using morale improvements, building up to four of them per planet. This, ironically, is exactly the right strategy for the Yor economy, because the game treats Charging Stalks primarily as morale improvements.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't bring the other two up because it's not really relevant to this issue.

And I set the Yor to AI 11 primarily because it's 1) much less of a bully than AI 8 (the Yor are Super Isolationists, so I don't think they should be as conquest-happy as the Drengin) and 2) apparently a better researcher (which I try and optimize my Yor for).

Ok.. so how do i change the AI's that they use?

I have the ultimate version of the game, with the latest patch from steam..

Open up the file in your data folder with a raceconfigxml extension (e.g. Terran Alliance.raceconfigxml) with a text editor, look for the <AIPersonality> tag and change the number next to it.

Bear in mind that if you're using a mod which changes these values, when you clear that race in game it will be set to the defaults from the mod's raceconfig.xml, which means you would need to set the personality to your preference again.  If you like, you can change the default setting in that file.

i did some searching but the only file i can find is one called  raceconfig.xlm  But it does not have <AIpersonality>  I must not be in the right spot..

what is the file tree location?  there are a bunch of Data folders, but i can't seem to find the one i need..

My Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor is where you should look.

It definitely has. You need to capitalise the P of Personality.

User Name\My Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor for the .raceconfigxml files. Those files only appear for the races you have played (or edited within the game). So don't be surprised, if you can't find the one your looking for.

Galactic Civilizations II - Ultimate Edition\Twilight\Data\English for the RaceConfig.xml file. Unless you play a mod which changes this file. In that case, you can find it within the Data folder of the mod.

ok,.,  here is where i found a file..  C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Galactic Civilizations II - Ultimate Edition\Twilight\MetaverseData\English\RaceConfig.xml

is this the correct file?  i did find the AI personality thing, 9 down.   <RaceID>0</RaceID> <DisplayName>Terran Alliance</DisplayName> <Alignment>50</Alignment> <Description>The humans recently joined the interstellar club with the invention of Hyperdrive. They are the diplomats and traders of the galaxy. Though a bit impulsive, they are tougher than they look.</Description> <Homeworld>Earth</Homeworld> <Homestar>Sol</Homestar> <RaceLeader>Jenna Casey</RaceLeader> <ShortEmpireName>Terran</ShortEmpireName> <AIPersonality>8</AIPersonality> <DialogueTag>Human</DialogueTag>

so just change that number?   You mentioned something about a file being in the documents too, Do i have to delete that one, and then change the one in the program files slot?

No, that's the one for the Metaverse. Go to the folder with just Data in its name.

Yes, but you need to do so for the right race. You're currently looking at the Terrans. There are several entries in that file, each for an individual race. Still,... 

...it's probably better if you go for the .raceconfigxml files in the My Documents folder I posted above. If you make an error in the RaceConfig.xml, you could mess up the game (though that wouldn't matter much, because Steam would just replace the broken file).

As I mentioned before, the game only creates a .raceconfigxml for races you have played. So start a game with the races whose AI you want to change, and then go to the My Documents folder to edit the files.

Ok.. i will give that a try the documents folder but  I guess i will have to at least start a game with someone else other than alterians

another thing,  TA,  Is that the latest version?  I have the ultimate addition from steam. So does that mean those AI's are bugged in mine?   AI 10, the torians, and iconians, so far have been some of the biggest expander's and have had the most ships that i have seen. In fact, they really seem like one of the more powerfull races, and AI's   Maybe i am just missing something.

If those are bugged, what would you recommend doing?  I see there are many mods, but many focus on techs, and things like that. does that also effect how the AI's use them?  I am kind of treading lightly as, i still am someone new to this game, and i don't want to go crazy changing things with out really understanding them/

I guess one of my worries is, if 7 and 10 are bugged, that really only leaves 2 left, wouldn't that kinda take the uniqueness out of the game by changing them?

btw, thank you folks for taking the time to explain all this stuff to me

i am tempted to try the mods, But they often look like the scare me, because they change so many things. though i suppose if i don't like it i could just uninstall it right?

though at the same time, the idea of making my own mod does sound appealing, yet a bit daunting. 

TA is Twilight of the Arnor, the second expansion of the game. I usually abbreviate it as TotA, because TA stands for Total Annihilation in my mind.

Yes, when you play the Ultimate Edition, you're playing TotA.

AIP 10 is a great expansionist, no doubt. However, once it has a certain amount of colonies, it stops building anything on newly acquired worlds. So, early on, it's quite strong, but the longer the game takes, the weaker AIP 10 becomes, because it falls more and more behind in production, research, and economy.

Either increase the difficulty of the bugged AIs (you can set the difficulty of each race individually) or switch them out with ones that work.

Yes. To be frank, there are still quite a lot of bugs in the game. Most of them are within the racial tech trees (which were newly added in TotA), the planetary improvements, and the starbase modules. Some of those bugs, especially in the ones in the tech trees, prevent the AI from playing as good as it can.
For example, in the Altarian tech tree, the Space Weapons tech is categorised as Point Defense. This means, that the AI will only ever researched this tech, if somebody is using Missile weapons. So, unless that is the case or the AI managed to buy/steal weapons from somebody else, it is a sitting duck.

AIP 7 has some problems, but it can work with the right settings. Only AIP 10 is beyond hope.

You're welcome.

You could try APT 1. It is primarily a bug fix and doesn't change too many things. Once you're more comfortable with the game, you could try out APT 2 or one of the other fix mods. In any case, if you have questions about any of the mods, just ask.

Of course.

It sure is. I began working on my mod in April 2008. If somebody had told me back then how much work it would be, I probably would never have started in the first place. But then, it's probably my own damn fault for constantly expanding the scope of the mod.

The Ultimate Edition defaults to launching with the Twilight of the Arnor expansion.

Yes, the tech tree mods alter how the AI players approach their research.  Usually this is for the better, allowing them to better prioritise projects that can improve their overall position.  Of course this means that they may be more challenging than before.

As long as you remember to backup and/or clear the raceconfigxml files when switching between mods and unmodded, you shouldn't have any problem.

Aaaand, ninja'd.

Ok you guys...  I will try that polish fix mod..    If you guys are right about somethings being pretty borked, I think i should try the polish mod..  The APT1, does sound more like fixes vrs real big changes, so i hope i like

I will start a new game today and see how it goes!   

Btw, i have read about both your mod's and they both have things i like, even if it is just peices of them for the time being.  One had some pretty interesting life-support changes, and the other had Minor races, with some pretty big boosts.  I wonder if it would be possible to pick out the pieces i like, and manually use those particular items to mix and match?

Yes, modding the mods of mods...  Oh boy... It sounds like an episode of the twilight Zone...

I'm currently making some changes to the life support techs and modules too, but it's going to be a while before I'll release a new version. Not to mention, that my changes go in a slightly different direction. Especially in case of the Yor.

It depends on the pieces. Some are easy to add to another mod, some require more work, and some are incompatible. Most of my changes to the Minor races fall into the first category. Only my changes to the Minor tech tree will probably fall into one of the last two categories.

Cool, well i just installed the fix one, and we will see how that goes..  Does my fun go up?  or down...  Maybe i will back off the difficulty back to tough for my first try.

I must say after playing that fix mod you recommended for the evening, seems like it does a pretty good job.  I found trading to be a bit better. It also seems like the AI's techs make a bit more sense.   It is still fairly early and not much war has broken out, Most AI's are still on there first teir military techs, aka, just hitting Lasers IV, ect..

I am playing on a Huge, or giant map,, i forget which. 6 or 7 races, and 6 minors, so a pretty busy galaxy. the drengin, and Korath are both much stronger this time around. infact most seam to be doing well.  all but the poor terrans. It's not really their fault though, they got stuck in a very bad spot with only 3 planets even remotely near by.

I just did some mad trading.. and got military techs and a lot of other random techs, as i am getting nervous with out a fleet..   Not a single person had trade, or advanced trade. while it is a pretty powerful tech the cost is fairly low so if they wanted it, they could tech it quick, and you know how trade goes. After teching you must take forever to build trade ships, and not build the valuable constructors at the early phase.

I ended up trading, (trade+adv trade) with every race for at least 4-5 techs each..  I ended up gaining at least 30 techs, though many were low end. but i definatly ended up with the better end of the deal.  the plus, side, no one can trade it with anyone else to make a good deal .

Not sure if anyone else has used this technique. Honestly it is the first time i really tried it. early in the game i was ran outta cash,  and i had been pushing colony ships, so i was a bit behind on tech, and sensors was the only one i was willing to trade. So i sold it to every race and made like 600 credits to get back in the (green) and get researching again.  It got me into the green just long enough to get my markets/trade centers all built to stay that way.   

So thanks again for being helpful  All your good advice, you might make a decent GCII player outta me yet!

It's a standard technique. Pretty much everyone uses it. Well, except for those, who consider it an exploit. They usually either limit it by disabling tech brokering (the ability to sell techs you haven't researched yourself), or deactivate tech trading completely.

Should you ever try out my mod, expect the amount of techs available for trading to be much more limited. I've changed all racial-specific techs (with the exception of weapons and a few others) so that they cannot by traded (and stolen).

"standard technique"?   way to burst my bubble of being a genius!

I not sure i understand how trading tech you researched with everyone is and exploit, even tech's you did not research..  Get a very good tech, that someone just researched, before they can spread it to the galaxy, you do, or maybe they did not wan't to spread it in the first place..  Unleashing the tech on the galaxy. Perhaps the AI can't use higher Logic on what to trade, or what not to, with taking into account every empires position as well as a human can? 

I will have to try that option about trading a tech you did not research, though that would make things harder..  Being a tech broker really is fun!

BTW, did you see in the new PC gamer interview where Modder's Head's are going to explode by the tool system they are releasing?  I thought i would warn you, if your head explodes who will marvin have to compete with for best mod?  :)

Btw, If i wan't to try your mod, or marvin's, Do i just install it like i did that APT1?  then go to the options/mods and click on Default, or APT1, or what ever your mods called?   then just back up/remove any race XLM that i played, that is in my documents folder and i'm good to go?  (i'm only playing alterians to this point in time so there will be only one anyway)

Though i am wondering i naybe i could make my own version of the APT1 mod?   Would it be possible for me to  Change how range and life support work in that mod, Along with changing the minors..   I would really like to use that script i read about that  Minor's can work like powered up single planet races, Or act like Normal races. And is that random by default?  Can you set minors to the AI scripts you want?  Like say set one to use AI 11?

Range i would like to decrease the range of all ships, I think i would like to try 65% to start,  I also wan't to cut the range of life support in half.   and keep size and build time the same.  I really wan't to try to increase the importants of Life support..