Note that devs have the right to moderate their own games. Some do. Others don't. Stardock doesn't and assumes most people go here. Other devs aren't on thei r respective discussion hubs for whatever reason. That's a developer community support problem. Not a Steam one.

1) likely yes but this depends on how they code the API calls. But it's about 99% a sure thing given how FE LE works. You'll have to convince Frogboy to remove that restriction. Its "possible" but again this depends on Stardock. Offline mode is another option.

2) depends on how the modding structure works in Galciv3, more than about Steam

3) updating the game works fine. But if you want "granular" patch management thats a different question

One more time: Steam does not affect modding in anyway what so ever.

As to updates the only "problem" is an inability to revert to a former version. Updates themselves are still handled by Stardock, and if I'm not mistaken no longer even needs to folks at Valve to "flip the switch" on a patch.

Also look into whether Charon is truly an ass or just just a drooling pod person.

Ah, valid point.

Perhaps we could petition Valve for manual control of updates? Or "Downdating"? If this is as bad as you have made it out to be, you should take it up with Valve, since Steam is otherwise an excellent platform to have your games on.

My experience with Steam has been very positive.  When I first heard about Steam before HL2 came out, I was vehemently against it.  That changed quick once I starting using it.  It's simply, unbelievably convenient to have all of my games in one neat list that auto updates.  I will only buy a game (if possible) if I can add it to my steam library.  I had problems with two games not running right (bioshock 1 and geometry wars) but that was just a small con drop in an ocean of pros.  And the sales are amazing!  I have zero problem with steam running in the background on my PC.  I own the retail GC2, but bought it again on steam just for the convenience.  Very happy customer here.

Given what exists now with SteamPipe, the 'beta' tracks are likely the best way to allow previous versions to be available to users who opt-in to them. While leaving the 'main' line to be auto-updated.

Preventing updates is likely never goign to happen. Especially when Steam itself was, at it's core, designed specifically to solve the problem of 'how the hell do we ensure all the CS1.6 players are on the same patch version as quickly as possible.'

Exactly the same reaction to Steam. Initially against it, but came to realise that was a knee-jerk reaction on my part, and I was wrong.

I can see the limitations for anyone who wants to modify the game in particular ways etc etc, and its certainly true that some aspects of Steam don't give total freedom in that regard. However for the overwhelming majority of people that's not an issue. Steam will never be all things to all people, cant happen, but pitched at the vast majority of those who play Games as it is, it works, and meets the need of that group well.

Its a commercial enterprise, its not going to cater for minority groups - pretty much by definition - and I doubt that will change, certainly not in the near term.

Maybe in a Commercial sense, once it has nailed the commercial "low hanging fruit" - they will focus more on the more niche groups of whatever nature. Its a commercial Enterprise, they will go for maximum return they can for what they have invested. I cant see that changing what they do for a while yet, certainly not until they have finished moving into areas that give a better return on Capital invested.

The latter is reality. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is the real world however much we would like it to be otherwise. I can see this easing somewhat in a few years time when they are forced to move into other areas to increase - or at the very least maintain - revenue Streams. Maybe then the more High End Gamer needs will be met, but its not going to be before then - that's Commercial reality.

Even Sid "sold out" to Steam ..... its todays Commercial reality, like it, love it or hate it .... it will be some time before it changes as such..

Functionally you have to understand that for a dev, steamworks is more or less a no-brainer in terms of cost benefit.

Cost is ZERO.

Benefit is you get

1) Patch automation

2) Match making (remember how all those gamespy games got scrweed when gamespy decided to charge 100x more than before?)

3) workshop

4) VAC

5) Market, where if anyone anywhere buys/sells a card for your game YOU MAKE MONEY FOR DOING LITERALLY NOTHING

6) real-time sales tracking

7) Getting paid regularly and on time with trackable verifiable data (you'd be shocked how hard geting paid for a game you made actually is)

Reemmber steam isnt the trojan. Steamworks was. And it tricked developer into 'becoming Valve' by virtue of offering all that for free. In a world where Scaleform can make a small fortune just by offering middleware for 3D UI elements, you can imagine how a suite of desireable middleware for free is extremely appealing.

Also in the "hated it until used it" camp. I do still worry about a couple things but the benefits outweigh any "concern" I have.

Well from what I can guess about Steam Workshop and how it integrates subscribed mods with the game launcher, there are still going to be mods that will not be compatible with each other.

If I come up with a whole new tech tree mod for GC3 (and being honest, when I get a look at the tech tree I'm likely to say 'aw, hell no') and someone else comes up with a tech tree mod, then it's possible to subscribe to both of them, but only the one which comes last in the loading order will actually be used.

Yes, but incompatible mods are nothing new and it often depends on how the developer sets the game up for modding, not steam.

Again this really really depends on how mods actually 'work' in Galciv3. You can easily have mods that are compatible with eachother, but it ultimately depends on how/what mods are created and available to users.

As an example, the recent thread about "Galactic Events". These events in Galciv2 were hard coded. Now they'll be in XML format. You can easily have a mod that like "Super Galactic Events!" that would be entirely compatible with other mods as well.

In terms of overlap again this is really dependent on the engine and th way mods work in each game. Skyrim's mod launcher has an 'order' to load mods to somewhat minimize and at least understand how overlaps would be handled in different mods. This may or may not be an issue but it's really far to early to tell.

Steam workshop really only solves 2 problems

1) Centralized location for mods that are 'safe'

2) Easy of installation and updating

So it's really more about streamlining the process of getting and installing mods. That's really it. It doesn't intend to solve the issues like mod conflicts and such, which are more of a mod creation and tools problem.

One more thing, does Stardock build in a switch that disables the need to have Steam running to launch GalCiv 3, in the unlikely event that Steam ceases to exist?

Brad made a commitment many moons ago to provide a fallback - quickly - if Steam ever went under, so Stardock software could be changed very quickly to run his customers PC software licences etc etc. Whilst the word "overnight" was not used, I strongly suspect it will be very rapid, he knows his Company will depend on that fallback if it came to it. If it was longer than 48hrs to engineer the switchover I would be very surprised.

My concern is that there are still thinking people who probably claim to be sane that don't like Steam.

I used to hate Steam but I got over it.  It's ok to stop hating Steam and instead embrace the best way to buy and manage PC games.

All of the arguments against Steam are completely silly compared to all the positives of the platform for both developers and gamers.

The DRM argument is the most comical of all.  Steam is harmless.  I buy my games, I have no reason to object to a harmless app that's doing so much for managing my games wanting me to do a simple internet login (assuming I haven't left Steam running).  I don't like the idea of DRM but since so many losers STEAL games, music, movies, etc, it's no surprise the rest of us have to suffer.

There are no true negatives to Steam - it's all positives - for 99.9% of gamers, and since you can't please everyone, you do your best and please the vast majority (like the reported 65 million registered Steam users).

My only complaint about Steam is that sometimes some games AREN'T for sale thru it and I have to buy them thru some other mechanism, and that's a pain in my backside.

You enjoy insulting me?

Now we have to make a LOT of assumptions

1) Steam goes bankrupt or something

2) For some unknown reason, neither EA/Gamestop/Activision/etcc decide to swoop in and buy Steam even if its JUST to get a 60 million account user base. Note THIS assumption is really really unlikely. Companies buy other companies to buy 'customers' all the time. If someone could buy up the #1 PC user base for a fire sale, they'd be stupid not to.

3) As a result the plug is pulled on Steam (again highly unlikely given that any company with money is probably going to buy up Steam, or Valve would sell Steam off if they were actually in financial trouble)

So lets given the above that all happens. Do we have a precedent for a mass migration of older games on a DRM platform that is going away in like a year?

Yes. GFWL.

SOme companies are spending resources to migrate games off of GFWL and onto Steamworks. Right now examples are Bioshock2 and th Batman series. Others are 'considering' options. And that's not even looking at what options Microsoft is offering as well to it's customers/developers as taht's not public.

So assuming Stardock is still around when this event happens. They'll likely be ripping out steamworks for whatever 'new' platform exists.

I think Brad said GameStop is already gone.

? Gamestop uses Impluse which they bought from Stardock. When you buy a digital game you have to use the "Gamestop App" to get the Steam serial number or to download the game. I use it every one and awhile when Gamestop has a sale. It's basically the old Impulse 'reskinned' with Gamestop graphics everywhere.

Brad said they haven't DONE anything with the platform. Aka that it's basically 'frozen in time' at the point when they bought it off Stardock. No improvments or steps forward as a platform. But it still exists. And you'd be damn sure that if Steam was in trouble, Gamestop would eat them up faster than a Weight Watchers conga line in front of a buffet table.

I could swear I saw a comment from Brad about GameStop throwing in the towel. Not that the web site was gone, but that the company that bought Impulse simply caved in and died. Now I can't find it. A search on "gamestop" gives 3 pages of hits, but none of them are recognizable as what I thought I had read.

My apologies to everyone.

This is not true. If you get a sudden internet outage, you can switch to offline mode, though admittedly this is somewhat spotty at times, as previously mentioned. Once it is in offline mode however, you don't have to worry about ever putting it back online; you can reboot your computer while Steam is set to offline mode and on reboot can tell it to stay offline if you so desire.

In addition, if Steam is in offline mode and you're connected to the internet (something I do on my netbook), it still manages to update the client itself itself from time to time, even if it does not touch my games. Something I find intriguing.