You are straying offtopic. And you are ing.

1. Advent are not my favourite faction.
2. NOWHERE it is stated that Advent are about culture. I made the effort and copied their faction description below.
   
   
   The Advent Unity
   The origins of the Advent began well before the recorded history of the Trade Order. Legend tells that
   their civilization began as one of many broken peoples who sought spiritual escape on the periphery
   of known space following great wars of antiquity.
   The Advent, whose society is known collectively as “The Unity,” are a highly advanced civilization
   that relies heavily on spiritual, psychic, and cybernetic technologies. A sense of elitism permeates the
   Unity, and is most strongly expressed with the high value they place on psionic ability. Silent Ones,
   those who are unable to participate in the Unity‘s group mind, are exceptionally rare and universally
   shunned.
   At an early age, Advent children are taught to seek enlightenment in whichever way naturally
   suits them and it is common to see even the very young using neurochemicals or artificial
   implants to augment their mental abilities. This advanced level of integration with their
   technology – known as PsiTech – is largely responsible for the Advent‘s strange sense of
   collectivism, and allows them to share their thoughts and feelings on an almost innate level.
   Navigating, interpreting and shaping this sea of ideas are highly prized skills in Advent culture
   and one’s mastery in these areas forms the basis of the Unity‘s social hierarchy. Females in
   particular demonstrate a natural prowess and have come to dominate the higher castes, called
   Coalescences.
   When the Trade Order forced the ancestors of the Advent from their homeworld, it created an
   indelible scar upon their psyche. An etching was created upon every Advent citizen in all the
   following centuries to exact retribution upon their enemy and assume their rightful place in
   the galaxy. This powerful drive for revenge pushed the Advent even further in their practices,
   advancing their technology far beyond anything the Traders could have imagined. Over the
   next 1,000 years the Advent would use all the resources at their disposal to create frightening
   new weapons and abilities powered by their PsiTech. With their resources exhausted and an
   arsenal to wield, the highest Coalescence synthesized the will of the Unity and determined
   that now is the time to return to their original homeworld to fulfill their prophecies of
   dominion.
   
   The Advent Loyalists
   In many ways, the Advent Loyalist faction has not changed - their goal is still to seek revenge
   against the Trade Order worlds and to assimilate all others into the Unity’s influence. To this
   end, the Loyalists have begun to employ advanced forms of PsiTech in order to subjugate
   their enemies.
   
   The Advent Rebels
   Suspecting that a corruptive influence within the Unity is the reason behind the Advent’s
   original retaliation against the Trade Order, the Rebel faction seeks to purge this sickness.
   This desire has sparked an all-out civil war within the Advent between the Loyalist and Rebel
   factions, but the Rebels see this as the only way to restore the Unity to their true destiny.
   
   
   
   They are on a roaring rampage of revenge.... as highlighted in bold above. Pure military superiority..... and it works the way intended against TEC. But not against Vasari.... where it should too, if the game is ever meant to be balanced and fun for all factions.
   
   THE ADVENT PREPARED 1000 YEARS FOR TOTAL WAR....... and now you are telling me that refugees from a ONCE powerful empire who maybe have a slight technology advantage CAN CRUSH THEM EFFORTLESSLY? I dont think so.
   
   
3. As it has been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES NOW if you would make Advent culture powerful enough to be a match for Vasari in their current state, said culture/other Advent improvement would UTTERLY CRUSH TEC.
   
   
4. ADVENT VS TEC IS BALANCED.
   
   VASARI VS ADVENT IS NOT. Nor is Vasari VS TEC, although on a lesser scale.
   
   
   And there is
   
   ONLY
   
   ONE
   
   SINGLE
   
   REASON
   
   FOR
   
   THIS:
   
   VASARI ARE OWERPOWERED. SECOND BEST ECONOMY, BEST MILITARY AND BEST OF DIRTY TRICKS AND DISADVANTAGES  ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT AND HAVE A BALANCED GAME.
   
   
5. It has been stated several times in the past, that for an 4 X Game (Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate) Sins has quite a heavy focus on the Exterminate part, which doubtless is influenced by it being an RTS (Real Time Strategy) Game.
   
   And as such, military power is indeed the most important thing in this game:
   
   
   And before you now come with TEC being eco focused.... yes they are..... but it is part and reason for their military power.
   
   TEC military isnt particularly strong... but what their units lack in power, they make up in numerical superiority..... the Zerg of Sins of a Solar Empire, if you want so.
   
   So in total that makes it something like this: (HOW IT SHOULD BE)
   
   TEC: Economy --> superior numbers - GOAL ACHIEVED
   Advent: BRUTE FORCE with low numbers (due to poor economy) and synergy - GOAL ACHIEVED
   Vasari: Gurrelia force with not enough staying power for sustained fighting, but dirty tricks to compensate for it. - GOAL NOT ACHIEVED, Vasari have even more BRUTE FORCE than Advent + said dirty tricks.
   
   
   SIMPLIFIED: (Sins is a far more complex game than Starcraft after all)
   
   TEC is like Starcraft Zerg..... Numbers above all
   Advent is like Starcraft Protoss: Lower numbers but powerful with those.
   Vasari is like Starcraft Terrans: Weaker in many ways, but their dirty tricks more than make up for it.
   
   For example:
   
   The terran Siege Tank looks like a terrible weak unit on paper...... only 150 HP.... a Protoss Zealot has 160 HP counting shields and is cheaper. And yet no player who knows the game would trade 2 Zealots for a single siege tank. Why? Because the siege tank has soft stats and abilities that compensate for its pathetic armor and HP values. Not only it is fast, but it siege mode gives it enormous range and devastating firepower. Vasari should be like this...... of course in the context of the Sins of a Solar Empire Game.
   
   Currently Vasari are like a 4000 HP Siege Tank with double range, Anti Air and close range point defense. Not fair... not fair at all.
   
   

 Aresiv...You are starting to go childish here. First you accuse me of trolling, then you reiterate your mantra about the factional "power rankings", as a dozen time before, completely ignoring my point about culture. Then as a proverbial cherry on top, you try to deny undeniable. Congratulations.

Its very cool you made the effort to copy-paste part of the lore. Whats not so cool, how you try to support your view by ignoring the implications of what is written in that lore in terms of gameplay.

I am talking about the whole Unity, Psi-tech, Psintegrat thing. Its obvious all this stuff is related to CULTURE ingame. In other words, Advent´s most characteristic traits are meant to be represented by means of culture as a gameplay element. The same way TEC´s economical superiority as per lore is reflected in "trade" and Vasari´s superior mobility (given by the fact, they are constantly on the run for god knows how long) is mirrored in their "phase mastery".

That is why the Advent have the highest ratio of culture related techs, thats why they have things like Global Unity or Deliverance Engine... culture is indeed their thing, and that´s what that paragraph you posted implies. Their apparent superior military is just your conjencture and wishful thinking based on the "revenge" references in that paragraph.

So no, i am not trolling, i asked you serious question, which you refused to answer. We dont have to discuss any further, if you wish to continue in this manner.

And BTW, your opinion on culture being worthless, cause it cant win you a game? So you can win now just building tradeports? Or the Vasari military are so OP, that it can win you a game, even if you have no economy at all, while your opponent does? 

Clearly none of these things was designed to win you a game by itself.

Finally, tell me now, what is your fav faction then. I find it hard to believe its not Advent. I am not asking, what faction you play the most on ICO.

If you compare it to trade or the Vasari toys, if you are not absolutely blind or stupid you will see there is a huge difference..

Trade ports can win you the game, if you get 100-200 credit income from your superior trade network while your opponent cannot even hope to achieve something similar.. Against AI, only trade ports give you advantage in economy (decreases the inherent income difference) so you can build ships.. and starbases.. AI only builds some trade ports, and never get a huge credit income only in the very late game.. You should know this, you only play against AI..

Look, you have to invest in economy no matter the race, you have to invest in military, no matter the race. Culture?? Well there is your answer.. Even for Advent culture is a weak addition, only bothers opponents and helps you SLIGHTLY, nowhere even near as trade or Vasari military.. And it cannot ever be near without breaking the so-so TEC-Advent balance.. Give Advent 20000% PM block in culture and you will get a race that is good in the defensive against Vasari, nothing changed against TEC, but on the offensive the situation will be the same. Do anything useful to culture and TEC will have no chance against Advent.. So what can be the solution? Noone knows.

worse, aresiv is starting to want balance and the other aspects -explore, expand and exploit- to be developed fully.  Best try Stardrive.

You seem to have some reading comprehension issues. Or you did not read what i wrote at all.

I did not say that culture is as powerful or important or whatever you want to call it as trade or movement. Read this line again please. I did not say that.

What i said is, that the culture was meant to be to Advent akin to what trade is to TEC or the "toys" are to Vasari. Just because the culture advantage is not as obvious and strong to Advent as economy/movement advantages are to the remaining factions, does not make that statement invalid.  

I actually agreed that culture might not be as viable for Advent as it should be. If you actually read my posts entirely instead of skimming through them, before calling me stupid, you would know that. That´s why i asked Aresiv why he wants Vasari nerfed instead of Advent culture buffed in the first place.

No, you need military to win, tradeports cant win you the game without military.

 

And this is my point, ffs, thanks for repeating it. And now why there has to be Vasari nerfs instead of Advent culture buff? Actually lets call it Advent culture fix. Cause it would break TEC - Advent balance? So the Advent can not win again TEC only so-so being overrun 2:1 every time? And anyway, care to explain, why and how would Advent culture buff break that balance? Can you actually prove that, when you dont even know what those buffs might include? I pretty much doubt that,

I didnt call you stupid, as you are aware of the thing I mentioned.. And I read all the posts you wrote before..

Brutal trade income = f*ckton of ships in no time, ready to be replaced immediately after destruction... I would call it a winning phase.. And it is because you have huge trade income..

Try to defeat an Advent synergy as TEC, try to break the battle ball yourself, try to defeat the Coronata-lead fleet of guardians and other ships, and you will understand the balance is fragile.. Advent relies on strong shields so their ships are meant to last longer, while TEC only can destroy Advent ships with huge losses (it actually happens online in skilled matches). But if you give Advent an advantage in any field to be able to fight Vasari (and not an actual phase missile block) and BOOM you will get an Advent that is invincible for the TEC..

How can you buff culture and not change the TEC situation? An Advent with good economy or even more stronger ships would be impossible for a TEC player to handle.. I would say very difficult without having to change everything in the game, changing TEC to have a chance against Advent, changing Vasari to have a chance against TEC, etc etc, would need another expansion I guess..

Culture is not really good for anything right now, it only gives a slight economic bonus, offensive capabilities are zero, you can counter with your own culture and a capital ship, and the Advent need like 5-7 culture centers to actually break the frontline with culture broadcasted from 1 broadcast center and a capital ship....), and if you get your culture on the opponent planet, what will you have? 1% more mitigation and a minor change of opponent income (due to allegiance). As long as culture can be so easily stopped it is not worth much to try to find out how culture can be better,

In my opinion the only solution could be to change the base numbers for Advent, let them broadcast their culture at 4-5x speed (or even faster like 10x) and let them decrease enemy allegiance 300-400% faster, if you break the enemy planet from his culture, let it fall fast.. Maybe give Advent culture some side effects, so even if it reaches the enemy planet on one phase lane give some nasty debuffs to the enemy gravity well, like economic decreases or cripple of some military stuff to increase the chance of success for an Advent assault? Maybe if Advent culture reaches the gravity well somewhere, decrease trade income by 30-50% or so, would make the Deliverance Engine stronger too (along with the increased culture spread rate of its signal)

GENERAL NOTICE:

Text in CAPS is merely formatted so for ease of formatting.... please dont take it as shouting.

EDIT: And I swear, one day I will kill that quoting system....

I rather not comment about who is the childish one here.....

"Noooooooooo..... dont touch the Vasari... I need their overpowered stuff so I can imagine I am great player when in fact I am not."

I will say this for the last time..... you play against the AI.

Now... that is fine..... I do too, when ICQ is mostly empty.

But with the natural limitations any AI has, comes the price that many things work against it, that will not work against a human enemy with even remote understanding of the game.

Or to make it short and simple..... playing against the AI in most cases offers NO INSIGHT or UNDERSTANDING about balancing issues.

So with all due respect to you.... unless you go on ICQ and make a record of at least 100 games against human enemies..... you simple lack the deeper understanding of the game to reasonable discuss about game balancing.

Your point of culture was hardly ignored... merely disproven.

What about you ignoring the - far more notable - implications about them wanting to DESTROY the TEC... not assimilating... that a nice limited bonus they sometimes enjoy.... but their primary goal is to exterminate the TEC. And then assimilate the few survivors into the unity.

It should be noted that Vasari economy is a lot closer to TEC economy than the Advent economy is to the Vasari economy. The difference between 2. and 3. in economy is larger than between 1. and 2.

I am challening your viewpoint of Vasari being the military superior faction. Here is the lore taken from the manual:

As you seem to have difficulty reading bold text, I gave the dediciding parts of the Vasari lore a different colour...

THE VASARI EMPIRE

The ancient Vasari Empire once ruled over countless worlds. Beginning at the galactic core,
the empire expanded uniformly, and brought hundreds of alien races under its control. While
most of the species the Vasari encountered were primitive and peacefully subjugated, more
advanced civilizations were harshly enslaved. Once conquered, these species were integrated
into Vasari society as “valued citizens,” giving them minimal standing in the Empire. Each
world was then locked down and ruled from vast orbital structures in order to minimize the
chance of rebellion.As with all empires, the Vasari civilization‘s fall began from within. Ten thousand years ago
the inner worlds of the empire fell suddenly silent. Expecting nothing more than rebellion
by the local species, a local wing of the Dark Fleet was sent to restore order, but no status
reports were ever received. Soon three more planets fell silent off the communications grid,
and while Internal Intelligence deliberated on the response of what could only be the work of
traitors, several more worlds went dark – including the ancient Vasari homeworld.
The rate of expansion of this unknown enemy was astonishing, far exceeding even that of the
entire Dark Fleet! As a last resort, the Dark Fleet Veerr brought the bulk of their forces back
from the expansionary frontier for a blind assault on whatever was eating its way out of the
empire‘s core worlds. When a single, heavily damaged warship from the Dark Fleet appeared
out of phase space in orbit of a planet on the empire‘s perimeter, the inhabitants decided
to board the ship. What they found were the remains of a once battle-hardened crew driven
mad with fear.

Yes.. the Vasari were once a military conquering faction..... but that is the past. If the Vasari Empire... and not the refugee fleet...  had met the TEC or the Advent it would have utterly crushed them by numbers alone. But that is a theoretical value, as it did not happen.

Now to the present, shall we? This is where Sins of a Solar Empire begins. The Vasari Empire is GONE ..... FOR 10  MILLENNIA....  all that is left is a comparable small fleet of refugees. This fleet of refugees is on the run..... and now according to the lore they meet the TEC that after intial struggles brought their advance to a grinding stop.  A few years later the Advent show up and put additional pressure on the TEC.... soon a 3 front war erupts as systems switch owner on a regular base. After initial sucesses for both the Vasari and the Advent the sleeping giant TEC is awakening and now throws its enormous industrial might into the battle, turning the war into a murderous slugfest with the main front lines being nearly unmovable on a large scale.

Again... the Vasari Empire... would have crushed both TEC and Advent together... no doubt about that. But as you can see the Vasari Refugee fleet was  - according to the lore - incapable of even taking down the TEC..... and so there is no way it will be capable of taking down both Advent and TEC. Which is actually not a problem for them, because they are running for their lives and have no wish to hold any territory on a permanent base.

In a rare act of autonomy, the colony made the decision to evacuate to a system far from
the Empire. It would prove to be the last time they would ever see Vasari space. For the next
10,000 years the Vasari refugee fleet travelled from system to system, dropping warning
beacons on their way, spending only enough time to replenish their resources before moving
on. No matter how far the Vasari travel, their warning beacons fall silent; their unknown
adversary continues its march toward their extermination.

Now if this ALL is not Hit and Run, nothing is. The Vasari played Hit and Run for 10000 years...... until the TEC was capable of mounting meaningful resistance stopping their advance. The TEC now throws their entire industrial might against the Vasari.... fielding vessels in numbers that the Vasari cannot hope to defeat. Before the arrival of the Advent, TEC launched a counter offensive against Vasari..... even putting the Refugee fleet on the defensive. Now with TECs power being divided between Advent and Vasari.... smaller territory gains are possible.... but not enough to feed the hunger of the Vasari refugee fleet and not fast enough to outrun their dreaded Nemesis. The Vasari are desperate.... besides being thousands of year ahead in technology compared to the TEC and still having a slight advantage above Advent, they cannot defeat their enemies with brute force. The days of the Empire are long gone, after all and so they have a LIMITED amount of ships and resources to spare.

And so the new doctrine of the Vasari has become the Guerilla War..... Hit and Run in combination with dirty tricks only possible for them due to having a edge above TEC or Advent in certain areas.

The Vasari cannot afford a full scale "fair" war anymore.... they are running out of time and resources. If they could, they would no doubt enjoy conquering and subjugating both TEC and Advent... but fact is.... they cannot. They are refugees fighting for survival, not an Empire on conquest.

So they now Hit hard..... with dirty tricks... take everything the can "carry" and then

RUN LIKE HELL... away from their Nemesis. 

So I agree about mobility as a theme for them.

Military superiority however, is a thing of the past, 10 millennia ago. A thing of the Empire... but not the remaining refugee fleet.

If it was not for a technological advantage ( for dirty tricks), the Vasari would stand no change according to the Lore. Remember... TEC alone hold the line against them and even launched a counter offensive against their refugee fleet, until the Advent arrived and caused TEC renewed worries and forced them to divide their forces.

The Vasari Loyalists
Desperate to continue on their journey with the resources they need, the Vasari Loyalists have
returned to the Empire’s tried and true methods of taking what they want. However, the
Loyalists are not interested in subjugation, only in moving on as quickly as possible. To this
end the Vasari Loyalists deploy the most powerful weapons in their arsenal to begin a war of
attrition.

They are desperatly running.... they dont even have time to conquer.... just to temporarly hold systems... exploit them.... and then run like hell. 

As both TEC and Advent (only in Lore ) mount heavy resistance, the Loyalist now for the first time in 10 millennia have thought about improving their weapons...... you see.... both Vasari Titans have been built in the past..... as you can see at their Titan Foundry who is nothing but a huge phase gate. The Vasari could have used their Titans for the last 10000 years..... they just had no reason for it as all resistance they meet so far didnt required advanced weapons or Titan Class Warships. Only TEC and Advent (only in Lore ) offered so heavy resistance that they were forced to reconsider their options.

The Vasari Rebels
As with their Loyalist cousins, the Vasari Rebels are also frantic to move on from this region
of the galaxy. Rather than risk becoming mired in more long years of war, the Rebels seek
to cooperate with the Traders and Advent. They believe that only by working together can
everyone escape their unknown adversary successfully.

They too want to run like hell, but unlike their Loyalist Brethren, they realized by now that taking the resources they need to escape by force

is at best a lenghty process, for which they have no time (Nemesis still approaching from behind)

and at worst impossible alltogether. (They tried for 30 years already).

So that makes the goals of all 6 factions something like this:

TEC Loyalists:

1. Hold the line... at any cost
2. Retake enslaved systems IF the opportunity arrises.
3. Novalith the shit out of all opposing factions, cooling their lust for conquest. 

TEC Rebels:

1. Exterminate the alien scum, the witches and the fools who are hiding behind their defenses.
2. Expand and conquer ANY system you come across.
3. Exterminate the surviving alien scum, the surviving witches and the surviving fools who are hiding behind their defenses... yes in that order. 
   
   

Advent Loyalist:

1. Take bloody revenge on the TEC.
2. Conquer the entire galaxy. (TEC + Vasari held territory) (Prophecies of dominion according to Lore)
3. Assimilate any - lucky? - survivors into the unity. (Those we have not enslaved.... ermm converted by force yet)

Advent Rebels:

1. Primary Goal: Cleanse the unity from its corruptive influence.... if necessary by eradicating the Advent Loyalists.
2. Handle annoying distractions (TEC, Vasari) along the way.
3. Restore the Unity to its true destiny. (Whatever that is, but since exterminating TEC and conquering the Galaxy is what the Loyalist want to do, it likely wont be the plan of the Advent Rebels. Maybe peace?
   
   

Vasari Loyalists:

1. Bring the fleet into movement again, search old databases for anything useful to help us temporarly breaking enemy resistance until said enemy moves in heavy reinforcements.
2. Exploit the planets as fast a possible and all other resources too. (Justification for superior Vasari extractor upgrades and similar stuff)
3. Run like hell before the enemy is back in full force or worse, our Nemesis arrives.

Vasari Rebels:

1. Somehow convince our new valued allies that it is in their best interest to help us grab resources as fast as possible and then to  run away like hell together from the Nemesis, that likely wont spare TEC or Advent, too.
2. Hit Vasari Loyalist and all others who stand against us atleast so hard that they wont delay OUR escape plans.
3. Possible... find some dumb fools empire to put between you and the Nemesis, in the hope of slowing it down.

The Advent are about revenge and military strenght first.... their - slighty - superior culture is as I would guess merely an ingame representation of their collective like mind.

BTW, this is taken from the Sins Wiki:

Advent Faction:

Advantages: .....

Disadvantages: If it's not about pounding your enemy with sheer brute force, it isn't Advent's strong suit. Although it comes earlier in the technology tree, Advent culture is no more dangerous than any other kind of culture...

Last Edit of this page and especially the Advent part, is quite some time ago. So, no... I did not make that up.

The Advent build an empire for 1000 years with the sole intention to wage war against the TEC... and to conquer the Galaxy afterwards.  If that is not militaristic idk what you understand under that term. The Advents thirst for revenge (by military force, or what do you think? That they send preachers with flowers?) is so large that they NEGLECTED any development not immediatly concerned with pounding the shit out of TEC. The result is a poor economy. Vasari economy is better, because their history teached them the value of trade and because they are on the run, the developed advantages in the fields of resource extraction and keeping.

So by any means, the Advent are more military oriented than the Vasari..... here the ones who want to take revenge and to dominate the Galaxy..... and here the ones who are running away from an unknown terror that decimated their once proud empire down a puny refugee fleet.

I hope that this does finally settle the Lore argument.

But now again to the matter at hand.

The balancing of the game.

We discussed above that culture is only a secondary trait of the Advent faction, they are firstly about military. Their culture is merely a ingame representation of their collective like mind.

Culture has been always quite weak.... ever since the very first Sins game back in February 2008.

The reality is, you cannot win a game with culture. By the time, you are owerpowering enemy worlds with your culture, you have already won. Culture is to slow and to easy countered to achieve you anything and so even Advent usually only build one culture center at a good spot and that it... unless hostile culture should make it necessary to construct a second one.

Now.... Advents only slighty better = still weak culture is not an issue for the game balancing wise. Because their military power advantage over TEC does perfectly compensate for their poor economy. TEC having the best economy can afford the losses Advent cost them and so those 2 factions are nearly perfectly balanced. Least because Advent culture is no more dangerous than TEC culture.

Now.... if you buff TEC or Advent.... this delicate balance will shatter.... buff Advent culture in any meaningfull way (had to be tremendous increase).... TEC dies.... buff TEC military in any meaningfull way... Advent dies

The solution for the Vasari problem is not to make TWO factions OP.... the easier and BTW more fair solution is to make the ONE faction that is the cause of 95 % of all balancing headaches weaker. And that faction is Vasari. Bad news for a Vasari whore, I know.

Of course one could change the entire way of the Advent culture... but this would without any doubt result in the need to rebalance the game FROM SCRATCH again.

And I somehow dont think that the developers are ready for that.... not if there are far easier and more comfortable solutions to the problem (Vasari nerf).

I sense the fear of a Vasari Fanatic that further discussion about the Vasari might bring in some long overdue nerfs to that faction.

Your attempt to derail from topic has failed.

You are not seriously considering that 3 v1 should leave the 1 any chances?

3v1 on a remotly similar skill level ends with the SWIFT death of the 1 . True for Advent and TEC.

Now... there is nothing to say against that the full mobile VL can run away for a while...... I have no problem with that.

I however have a problem when the Vasari player is not running for his life as he should in 3v1..... damm... as he should in 2 v1 on a similar skill level.... but is making a fight to the death that nearly brings the 3 players into defeat.... that is clearly a sign of a unbalanced game.

Turchany is right... you can ignore culture.... although most people build 1 center or so to have the 10 % allegiance boost.

No.... that is a not so good idea.... as Advent military is considerable superior to TEC military..... giving them a good economy will spell end for TEC quite permanently.

 Sitting back hiding behind defenses is usually a bad idea in general.... unless you really cant take any planets from your enemies anymore or are facing unhealthy odds.

And nobody wants all races to be the same.... but I think most people want all races to have equal chances of victory.

Exactly one of the issues.....

In culture (only own territory): Lously 20 % phase missile block.... so your ships die within 18 seconds instead of 16... great.

Outside of culture - enemy territory:

Orky

Disruptor Nanites (5 minutes no Shield Regeneration, No Antimatter Regeneration, no Hull Regeneration)

Hangar Defense (lock strikecraft in phasic trap and more phase missible bombers)

Likely a phase gate (Entire Vasari fleet there within 1 minute max.... 20 seconds if he paid attention (Vasari sensors detect ALL phase space jumps)

And of course a nice and hefty damage increase for the Vasari because they are now in their own culture.... even more damage to phase missiles..... Advent taking a heavy fortified Vasari system? Maybe with 8 times numerical superiority and severe losses.

You were the one who begun to argue about Advent being all culture.... an argument disproven in every detail by now.

Besides, TEC vs Advent balancing is fine....

but Vasari vs TEC is not

and Vasari Vs Advent is terrible.

So now..... what faction is in need of a nerf.... hmmm?

Resource focus does not pay itself of compared to normal trade operating mode.

Vasari ships dont need more fleet supply on a remotly deciding scale. Sure, 1 here, 1 there.... but we speak about minor details here.

Now you speak nonsense... capitalships cost the same for all factions.

And SOA Mod Team stated several times in the past that the Borg are not meant to be played by humans, and that only an combined alliance of several other factions can stop them.

In any case, the way of SOA balancing is not relevant for the standard game, which only has 3/6 faction that need to have equal chances of victory.

Allow me: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/438860/page/1/#3303550

Quoted from above topic:

BTW: Total Durability of 280 fleet supply worth of carriers:

TEC: 20 Percheron Carriers = 44600

Advent: 14 Aeria Drone Hosts = 39480

Vasari: 20 Lasurak Transporters = 44800

Vasari are cheapest in anything but crystal... and have the most durability in total. Not to mention Phase Missile bombers.

The Advent Aeria Drone host may be more durable per ship, but in total a fleet of aerias cannot take as much punishment as other carriers can do. Add research and the problem increases.

Generally, the strengh per wing is nearly equal..... so for the same amount of fleet supply Advent gain a grand total of 2 additional wings..... hardly impressive.

Nobody wants to harm their dirty tricks (as long as they are not incredible OP). The problem is that they can streamroll anything without those tricks.... with them... they become unstoppable.

I really think that a 10 % increase to fleet supply.... the only thing that does really hurt economically in the long term, would do wonders in combination with the already mentioned other nerfs.

Nope, however having many tradeports or increased mobility, not to mention phase missiles that are capable of entirely nullifying shields upgrades (Tech 5 Vasari Research makes the entire shield tree of Advent worthless) just happens to be arround 100 times more usefull than some minor buffs culture can give.

But even if you make culture extremely powerful for the Advent.... it still wont win you a game.

Advent: I will make half your planets go into rebellion within 5 minutes.

TEC/Vasari: And I will bomb ALL of your planets into dust in 5 minutes.....

Guess who wins?

Did I mention that capitalships and Titans reject enemy culture, too?

And that they are quite capable to easily destroy said culture centers?

I suggest you reread my posts... nowhere did I state that I want more explore, expand and exploit in the game!

I merely mentioned that Sins as an RTS game focuses more heavy on the Exterminate part of the 4X.

My primary concern is balancing of the game so that all 3 races and all 6 factions have an equal change to win.

See the very nice and long lore explanation at the beginning of my post.

And in case you happen to forgot above things again by the time you arrive here again:

Culture is the soft skill of the Advent... as is Gravity Tolerance to the Vasari. A nice bonus, but nothing that will decide anything. The main idea of Advent is military superiority, as is reflected by them having worst economy. It is called competive balancing for a reason, you know?

Buffing Advents culture would

A) break balancing with TEC, as mentioned in full length later.

still not help them (see above... 20 culture centers against 20 warships... who does likely win?)

So the faction either has a "1 Win by culture button" after 5 minutes of gameplay or is not played at all. As watching fleet battles is indeed more fun than playing a game of "Who is first to reach the "I Win button", I dont see this happening.

a) can be solved in theory... but that would require an entire rebalancing of the game from scratch..... if Advent become more powerful TEC needs to become more powerful, too (HOW BTW?) To make Advent equal to current state Vasari.... I cannot think of any culture buff short of an instant "I win button" that could achieve that.  And of course all this needs to be balanced in context with 3 races and 6 factions. Very funny, what do you think the developers have been doing since the release?, leaving bugfixing aside? They did a hell of balancing and they did a great job so far.

I really dont think that the developers are in the mood to start balancing from scratch just because you - wrongly - believe that Advent are only about culture.

If the developers wanted to make the Advent truely dominating in culture, they so far missed this opportunity..... over the course of over 5 years and four Expansions.

The developers only made the error - by the way a quite often happening one in RTS balancing   - to give the Hit and Run/Dirty Tricks faction more and more staying power in main line combat scenarios. Which sooner or later breaks balancing, because if you have a powerhouse faction with and a powerhouse faction without dirty tricks, the powerhouse faction with the dirty tricks naturally wins.

Example for this include:

Earth 2150 The Moon Project : LC

C&C Tiberian Sun: NOD

C&C Generals Zero Hour: GLA

C&C Tiberium Wars - NOD

That are nice ideas, I just dont see how they would balance against TEC without major changes to TEC too.

And I really dont think that the developers are willing to start balancing from scratch again.... and honestly... I cannot blame them.

As currently the TEC VS Advent matchup is mostly balanced, it is my humble opinion we should focus on the Vasari. They are the largest remaining source of major balancing issues.

After the Vasari are balanced against TEC and Advent I really think that there will be only very minor balancing trouble remaining.

IDK how often I have to repeat it for you... but if you ask..... here you go again:

WHY FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN?

Advent VS TEC is mostly fine.

TEC VS Advent is mostly fine.

Looks like those 2 factions are mostly balanced? Right?

On the other hand:

Vasari vs TEC is not fine.

Vasari vs Advent is terrible.

So that makes:

TEC: Fine

Advent: Fine

Vasari: Broken

2 Fine... 1 Broken.

And you are really suggesting that we should mess with the 2 without even trying to fix the 3rd?

If Advent were supposed to stand a fighting chance against Vasari in their current owerpowered state, we would speak about some insane culture powers.

Now... since it is YOU who claim that Advent are all about culture..... why dont YOU make a few suggestions of what those powers should be like? But remember.....

1. It has to be enough to stop a late game Vasari fleet consisting off 1 Titan, 6 Capitalships, 150 bomber wings and additional support cruisers. The same fleet that is currenty capable of taking out an Advent fleet 3 times the size... without more than marginal losses.

2. None of this awesome power of course may affect TEC in any way.... because you see.... TEC eco is much better than Advent eco..... but I think that once the loss ratio (btw, should the Advent need ships at all? Culture spreads from temples of communion after all). does exceed 2.5 to 1 against TEC, even TEC economy cannot replace that anymore.

So the new balancing would be: Vasari VS Tec: TEC clearly inferior

Vasari VS Advent: MAYBE.... and that is a big maybe.... balanced.

Advent vs TEC: TEC is steamrolled.

3. And of course it somehow has to fit the Advent theme of culture... because.... military is out of the question. At least according to you.

Can YOU actually prove that all your talking about the Advent, who according to YOU are about culture, is not just an attempt to distract from the Vasari balancing issues? So that your beloved faction may not face the necessary changes to it? BTW, most of those changes wont even affect you as a single player.

My iPhone's battery died after trying to load this page...

I hear the game is great fun....until you play it for a few hours, then it gets repetitive and superficial...is this the case?

A true Necro!

Seriously ARESIV are you really expecting  *ANYONE* to read through that monstrosity? I wouldnt do that that for $10!

......

....Soooo, when is the official update coming out? It's supposed to be today right? Was hoping they'd release this and the DLC (bleh...apparently that's tomorrow...) by now.

Nope, it's releasing tomorrow.

Bleh, I'm bored now. lol

Thought they were both coming out now. T.T

   Just bring it on! Cant wait for tomorrow. 

Anyway, we are back! so>

@Aresiv> You can post as much lore you want, but you are still just assuming things, there is no evidence in the lore supporting your claim, that Advent are meant to be a "military" side, the same way TEC are the economy faction. I accept they want revenge, retribution and whatnot, more than a subjugation. The thing is, you automatically associate culture with subjugation, when this does not need to be the case. 

For example, Wail of Sacrificed. Clearly the purpose of this tech/ability is to kill, not subjugate. Yet its not really a traditional military tech, its way more connected to culture. Case in point, as you surely know, its in the Harmony tree, not Hostility tree.

Then Crescendo of the Unity. Advents ultimate research topic to achieve a Research Victory. The description says something about dominating galaxy with CULTURE, establishing supremacy.

...or Coronata Titan. Its ultimate ability takes over worlds, does not kill or destroy them. Surely this says something about the background and character of Advent faction.

These are some of the ingame clues supporting my claim that Advent are meant to be a culture based faction, regardless of your or mine opinion, how useful that culture is. Advent may want revenge, but there is no proof that they want this revenge to achieve via means of military strength - you just cant prove that, its just your own conclusion.

This conclusion is clearly based on 2 things:

- your own ideas how Advent should look like

- your own perception of culture as worthless. As you consider it worthless, you dont ever include it into those faction rankings, only rank them in terms of economy and military strength. Not for a moment would you take into consideration, that culture is not worthless by design, its just the devs did never really came with ideas to make it work so well, it would be on par with economy and military aspects of the game. Does not mean they did not intend to in the beginning and does not mean they cant anymore. This is my whole point, which you just keep ignoring.

As far as my motives go, i can only laugh at that. At least i am absolutely honest and open here. I stated from the beginning i like Vasari (Loyalists), i admitted not be an ICO a player. I have nothing to hide, nor anything to lose. Obviously i dont want to see them to be nerfed without proper discussion first.

It is you actually who denied to be a closet Advent player, but never replying to my question who is the faction of your heart then and why (if it was part of that megapost and i missed it somehow, my apology, its 1 AM). Or you think you dont have to as you are objective here unlike me? Dont be silly.

Additionally, if i recall correctly, i actually agreed to phase missile nerf and other Vasari related nerfs before (and Jingly Goo would vote me for president cause of that). So perhaps there are other reasons, why i keep discussing this. Lets say for example the PM nerfs happen, Advent become your fabled military faction. Balance seems to be OK now in your opinion. Culture does not change though, that means it remains "worthless". Now i ask you again, ARE YOU FINE WITH THAT? Given the fact, it concerns the Advent most, as its their area of expertise. I know, the balance is OK now... but Advent being shit at culture is like TEC being shit at trade. Should not be that way.

Personally, i dont like pointless, redundant gameplay mechanics. If its ingame, if one faction is basically built around that, with ton of their tech, it should serve a purpose. Fixing it IMHO should be of higher priority than immediate balance.

12:30 Am, would be nice to see that DLC right about now

Agreed! it is the 5th, open the floodgates!

Keep in mind that midnight of your time zone is not what is important.

Blasphemy! My timezone is the most important because I live in it, thus, my midnight is the only REAL midnight!

and it is 7PM on th 5th of june in MY timezone, so WHERE is the DLC?

harpo

btw there is STILL no sign of the DLC on the sins store (https://www.sinsofasolarempire.com/store)

It was due to be released on the 4th, give it to us If I calculated right 1 hours till whole planet will leave June4th...

Quote those clues or just simply list them please.

From the very beginning it is obvious for me that Advent is supposed to be a strong military faction who has culture as a secondary thing (maybe used as active weapon), but stronger than other races culture, though both other races have better culture I think.. They are not meant to be sole culture as no race is meant to be pure something, like pure eco will not save TEC, pure mobility will never save Vasari (though giving them superior military was a crap idea..) so why would Advent be pure culture? They should be military and secondary, culture, but it needed culture to be completely changed because the current way Advent culture is nowhere a dangerous thing.. TEC culture is as "powerful", or Vasari..

And i said they are meant to be sole culture exactly where? 

Your comments show you want them to be the culture race, not the military race who is strong in culture too..

I always remember it being the 5th.

Already answered on the steam forums.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/204880/discussions/0/864969482089743217/

Mmmmm, no. I am saying their main characteristic trait is culture, not military. Does not mean they should not have any military at all. Obviously all the factions need military, its a game about warfare after all. 

And its not what i WANT. 

EDIT> 1.50 downloaded, bring on the DLC

EDIT 2> The game says its 1.50 BETA 4742 now, am i missing something?