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Obama and Freedom of Religion

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Obama and Freedom of Religion

from JoeUser Forums
In my blog entitled, For Greater Glory, https://forums.joeuser.com/426259, I wrote that I think the release of this film is very timely and may help us gain a better understanding of the seriousness of the current Obama administration's attack on our freedom of religion in the form of his HHS mandate.
 
 
 
Denver archbishop: HHS mandate an attempt to remove religion from society
By Hillary Senour

Denver, Colo., Jun 1, 2012 / 04:02 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Denver's newly-appointed archbishop says the federal contraception mandate is the result of a larger push to remove religion from the public sphere.

“Essentially what people are saying to us is, 'We want you to pretend you're agnostic or atheist like us, and that is the way society should be,'” Archbishop Samuel J. Aquila explained to CNA on May 28, as he assessed the thinking that made the mandate possible.

“Today what is happening is that those who do not want faith in the public square are really saying, 'It's our lack of faith, our unbelief that we want you to follow,'” he said.

Archbishop Aquila, who was announced as the new Archbishop of Denver on May 29, called the federal mandate a direct infringement on the First Amendment that is simply another example of  “the erosion of religious liberties” which has been occurring for some time.

“It's the violation of our consciences and it is the violation of religious liberty,” he said. 

In its current form, the federal contraception mandate would force employers to purchase health insurance to cover birth control, sterilizations and abortion-inducing drugs even if doing so violates their religious beliefs.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, announced a narrow “exemption” from the mandate for religious organizations that serve and employ only members of their own faith on Feb. 10.

Since then, 43 Catholic organizations across the country, including dioceses, charities, hospitals and universities, have filed lawsuits against the Obama administration on the grounds of religious liberty.

Bishops from every diocese in the U.S. have spoken out against the mandate, warning that it poses a serious threat to religious liberty and could force such organizations to shut down.

Archbishop Aquila said that he would “continue to speak out” against the mandate and will “ help people to recognize the violation that is taking place.”

Christians, he said, should do the same, even if doing so is unpopular.

“If we become martyrs, so be it,” he said. “It is for the Lord that we do it.”

Although such comments may sound pessimistic, the archbishop said that history has already proved that the Catholic Church is able to withstand such opposition.

Throughout the 2,000 year history of Christianity, “there have been the rise and fall of many governments,” Archbishop Aquila said, “but the Church is still here.”

 

51,053 views 99 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top

‘This is the end of America’: Bestselling author takes on the HHS mandate

BY BEN JOHNSON

  

GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN, June 22, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) – If he were alive today, Dietrich Bonhoeffer would tell Americans to oppose the HHS mandate and regard the measure as an infringement on religious freedom, according to his biographer.

Bestselling author Eric Metaxas said the ObamaCare mandate stood as “a horrific example” of state overreach. 

Metaxas, the author of Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy, made his remarks last Thursday before a crowd of more than 800 attendees of Acton University, a four-day seminar held near theActon Institute‘s headquarters in Grand Rapids.

A student with the Fellowship of Catholic University Students asked Metaxas, “What advice do you think Bonhoeffer would say to us, specifically thinking about the U.S. situation?”

“Read and sign the Manhattan Declaration, and be aware what is happening,” Metaxas began.

After an hour-long talk featuring the details of the Nazi-era Lutheran pastor’s life, Metaxas said Bonhoeffer’s message is that Christians “have to be able to read the times.”

“You have to know when to merely pray for your leaders or when to take action,” he said.

The requirement that religious institutions violate their consciences proves “the government, with all its power, can bully people,” he said. “This is the end of America.”

“Every Protestant needs to know and every American needs to know, that this is a threat to the United States of America,” Metaxas, who is an evangelical Christian, told the crowd. “It has nothing to do with your view of contraception… It’s the principle of religious freedom. This is the very heart of who we are as a people.”

The task of fighting for religious liberty will fall to clergy and concerned activists, because it “is difficult in this media to talk about this, even on Fox News,” he stated, adding that most Fox News commentators don’t “get” the issue.

However, Metaxas addresses the issue in a new video released by the Acton Institute, with Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse of The Ruth Institute, who also taught at Acton University.

“This is an absolutely vital principle,” Metaxas said following his speech. “We’ve got to fight.”

Although he said emphatically that the violation of the First Amendment represented by the HHS mandate in no way compares with Adolf Hitler’s anti-Christian actions, the decision to subordinate the church’s role to the state “is exactly what happened with Bonhoeffer.”

Bonhoeffer’s message to modern American Christians is that “we must see what’s happening, and together we can fight, and we can win.”

His remarks came following a well-received speech sprinkled liberally with humor, including a brief autobiographical remark about his role as narrator in the Veggie Tales video Esther, the Girl Who Became Queen. “I’m a non-pictured vegetable,” he joked.

A copy of his speech may be purchased here. 

http://youtu.be/P31UflWhyBc

This is the end of AMerica Youtube....

Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top

OBAMACARE RULING AND CATHOLIC RIGHTS

 

June 28, 2012 by admin   

 

Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the U.S. Supreme Court decision upholding ObamaCare:

The only way Catholic non-profits could have survived the encroachment of the federal government on their right not to buy insurance for services they deem immoral was if the entire ObamaCare legislation had been struck down. That did not happen.

The Supreme Court did not rule today on the constitutionality of the right of the Obama administration to force Catholic non-profits to pay for abortion-inducing drugs, contraception, and sterilization in their insurance plans; this Health and Human Services (HHS) edict was issued after the high court accepted the ObamaCare bill. Eventually, this particular issue will reach the Supreme Court.

If the Supreme Court decision lacks clarity, the Catholic response will be anything but ambiguous: the battle lines between the bishops and the Obama administration are now brighter than ever. Fortunately, not only do practicing Catholics overwhelmingly support the bishops, tens of millions of non-Catholics also do.

ObamaCare may have survived, but it is by no means a lock that the HHS mandate will. It is one thing to levy a tax, quite another to level the First Amendment.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top

First Amendment ; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” How do you get from this to … here … and here ... and here???

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 41
Attacking our freedom of conscience to practice the Christian Faith

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 41
Forcing Catholic institutions and agencies to act against their conscience and provide and pay for these evils is also a violation of the religious liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 41
Knock, knock, have you read the US Constitution? What is the one core constitutional principle concerning freedom of religion? Is not freedom of religion our most basic and fundamental liberty?
Lula you are a gas: You are complaining about people who are trying to protect and divorce themselves from your (and others) dogmatic beliefs ... which is just what you are trying to do under the guise of YOUR freedom of religion??? The constitution provides no protection whatsoever for your religious practices because there is a higher power in effect (see first paragraph). You guys wouldn’t have these kinds of problems if you kept your religion in your Homes, schools and churches … and out of politics. Your conscience or lack of one has no legal standing at all. If you want to claim ‘nonprofit’ status, then there are rules to adhere to above your particular virtues. I don’t see anyone trying to force anyone else into doing whatever against their ‘will’ … besides you folk??? You are the only ones that allow for no other options or compromises, only steadfast RCC style dogmatism.

Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top

We're no longer legally allowed to keep our religion in our homes, schools... just churches.  Remember?  New law?

Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Jythier, reply 55
Reply #55  Jythier
What new law would that be (???) that denies you this freedom … or is this just more wailing about your self-perceived religious persecutions? If there were some law to this effect as if, I would call you a fool to pay it any mind in your homes or private schools. Life is too short for self-flagellation like this. I don’t think you can back up even this simple statement of yours … at least not with facts.

Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top

GFTESS, 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 54
How do you get from this to … here … and here ... and here???

First, I get the unalienable (can't be given away, taken away or abridged) right to practice my religion from God. According to the Declaration of Independence this truth is self-evident. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness."

 

I get the First Amendment freedom to practice my religion according to the dictates of my conscience from the clause (in blue). 

First Amendment ; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” 

America allows the free exercise of other religions too. 

Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 57
First, I get the unalienable (can't be given away, taken away or abridged) right to practice my religion from God. According to the Declaration of Independence this truth is self-evident. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness."
What in the world does “Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness” have to do with YOUR perceived idea of 'freedom of religion' anyway??? Does everyone have the same option, but of course not? What does this have to do with inflicting your peculiar ‘beliefs’ on society … just because? When you are done with your pity party, try facing reality for a change instead of excusing your way through it on a pipe dream. What rights are you even complaining about, the right to be fair surely not?

Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top

HAPPY FOURTH EVERYBODY! 

GFTess, 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 54
I don’t see anyone trying to force anyone else into doing whatever against their ‘will’..

That's exactly what this is all about ....exactly what is going on. The US government, the Obama Administration, via its HHS mandate forces Catholic institutions hospitals, colleges, charities, organizations, universities, dioceses, etc. to pay for abortion-inducing drugs, contraception, and sterilization in their insurance plans.

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 58
What rights are you even complaining about, the right to be fair surely not?

The right, the free exercise, to practice Christian religion.

The Christian religion teaches and will ever teach that birth control and abortion, the deliberate and direct destruction of human life, is forbidden by the Commandment of Almighty God, "Thou shall not kill" and therefore is morally wrong, a mortal sin. 

Catholics right and freedom to practice religion is being attacked by the Obama administration via the HHS mandate would force us to violate our Faith.  That's WRONG. VERY WRONG. 

Here's an article that came out today that addresses this as well as some other areas where religious freedom is under attack. 

..........................................................................................................................

Without religious freedom ...

Charlie Butts - OneNewsNow - 7/4/2012 3:45:00 AM

 


With today being the 236th anniversary of the nation's Declaration of Independence, in which America declared its freedom, one legal expert warns that Americans' first freedom is "under attack like we have never seen."

 

 

Kelly Shackelford of Liberty Institute  says the Founding Fathers listed religious freedom first in the Constitution because without it, all the other freedoms would fall away.


"The fact that our religious freedoms are under attack like we have never seen in this country is really a wake-up call as we enter Fourth of July for Americans who really want to focus on the future of this country in making sure that this country remains free," Shackelford comments.


He asserts that some attacks currently afoot were most likely unforeseen by the founders.

"We're living in a time right now where the federal government, through the HHS [Department of Health and Human Services] mandates, for instance, is literally ordering hundreds and thousands of religious institutions across the country to violate their faith," the constitutional scholar notes. "We've never had the federal government order religious institutions to violate their religious consciences and their faith. And that's just one of many examples -- whether it's the VA [Veterans Affairs) banning the mention of God at the military funerals; whether it's valedictorians being threatened with jail if they mention God," or churches forced to go to court to expand their sanctuaries or set up a church at a new location.


Shackelford says, "It's like the red light that comes on that tells you there's something wrong in the engine." So the fight to restore religious freedom is in full force.

 

 

 

Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 57
First, I get the unalienable (can't be given away, taken away or abridged) right to practice my religion from God. According to the Declaration of Independence this truth is self-evident. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness."

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 58
What in the world does “Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness” have to do with YOUR perceived idea of 'freedom of religion' anyway???

Here's something from the Heritage foundation...

Does the Declaration of Independence Still Matter?


But in fact the Declaration is more than a litany of complaints. Its greater meaning is as a statement of the conditions of legitimate political authority and the proper ends of government. It proclaimed that political rule would, from then on, reside in the sovereignty of the people. "If the American Revolution had produced nothing but the Declaration of Independence," wrote the great historian Samuel Eliot Morrison, "it would have been worthwhile."

Because all are endowed with these rights, the rights are unalienable, which means that they cannot be given up or taken away. And because individuals equally possess these rights, governments derive their just powers from the consent of those governed. Government's purpose is to secure these fundamental rights and, although prudence tells us that governments should not be changed for trivial reasons, the people retain the right to alter or abolish government when it becomes destructive of these ends.

The Declaration also insists we have the right to "the pursuit of happiness." A higher component of that pursuit, of course, is being able to worship as we please. What right is more fundamental than religious liberty? Yet as Heritage's Sarah Torre  wrote recently, that right seems to be under attack.

Obamacare's anti-conscience mandate has a narrow religious exemption that applies only to formal houses of worship. Countless other religious employers, like Catholic schools, hospitals, and crisis pregnancy centers, are forced to provide coverage for the mandated services despite moral or religious objections—simply because they step outside the four walls of a church to serve others.


Insinuating that faith should remain behind closed doors, not influencing or inspiring care for others, the government's narrow view of religion has created what some have called a "religious caste system." Only those considered "religious enough" by government bureaucrats are awarded religious freedom under the mandate.


Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 59
Reply #59  lulapilgrim
Lula, if you were really interested in religious freedom you would fight for other religious causes too, but it seems that the RCC-C is all you want a free pass for. When you figure out why you fight to deny others their religious freedom, you may begin to see why I will continue to argue against yours … too.

PS - I turned 60 today but as my avatar shows I age well, hahaha.

Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top

 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 62
Lula, if you were really interested in religious freedom you would fight for other religious causes too,

What other religious causes do you have in mind?

There is but one God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost and one religion of His making...this is true Christianity. So therefore I'm not a respector of other religions, so why would I fight for their religious causes if they are different from or contradict those of true Christianity? 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 62
When you figure out why you fight to deny others their religious freedoms,

In my #57, I acknowledged that America's founding documents particularly the First AMendment allows the "free exercise" of other religions. I haven't fought to deny that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top

Obamacare's anti-Religious Freedom mandate started yesterday, August 1st. 

The details from Heritage.org ......

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/08/01/morning-bell-obamacares-anti-religious-freedom-mandate-starts-today/?roi=echo3-12727246023-9303407-39696f11105dc33633fc9af3319c3650&utm_so

 

Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 59
Reply #59 lulapilgrim
Sorry babe but you are a liar. There is nothing in Obama Care that you have to comply with. If you don't want healthcare then don't get it. If you don't like some of the things covered then don't use them and join the club. If you choose to violate the laws then you must prepare yourself for the consequences. You are not being forced to do anything at all. It is all in your mind and your desire to inflict you unsubstantiated opinions on the rest of us … not the other way around.

Here is the difference. I don’t GaS how you want to live your life, what arcane nonsense you want to believe or practice. I have no desire whatsoever to change your opinions or views. I don’t care how you want to live your life. None of this will have any influence whatsoever on my values, beliefs or my life. YOU on the other hand would force me and so many others to submit ourselves to the carnality you inflict upon yourselves.  All with a complete disregard for anything we believe or hold precious and meaningful. I will not be forced to violate myself for your selfish satisfaction. Queers just want to be gay, atheist just want to be free while you and your Christian lot lust to control everyone else’s life. Get a real life.

Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 59
That's exactly what this is all about ....exactly what is going on. The US government, the Obama Administration, via its HHS mandate forces Catholic institutions hospitals, colleges, charities, organizations, universities, dioceses, etc. to pay for abortion-inducing drugs, contraception, and sterilization in their insurance plans.
Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 59
The right, the free exercise, to practice Christian religion.

The Christian religion teaches and will ever teach that birth control and abortion, the deliberate and direct destruction of human life, is forbidden by the Commandment of Almighty God, "Thou shall not kill" and therefore is morally wrong, a mortal sin. 

Catholics right and freedom to practice religion is being attacked by the Obama administration via the HHS mandate would force us to violate our Faith.  That's WRONG. VERY WRONG. 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 65
Sorry babe but you are a liar. There is nothing in Obama Care that you have to comply with. If you don't want healthcare then don't get it.

You really need to inform yourself about what the Obamacare HHS mandate does and means. 

#1---"Obamacare" mandates health insurance that covers contraception, sterilization, or abortion-inducing drugs, or we will have to go on the "Obamacare" plan that does. 

#2---As a result, more than 100 lawsuits, Catholic and non-Catholic, have been filed because the mandate infringes upon our constitutional right to free exercise of religion. 

 

Reply #67 from JoeUser Forums Top

Lula, you are  just crazy. Freedom of religion means only one thing to you: no freedom FROM religion for the rest of us. Nothing is stopping you or your masters from opting out. But if you do, then you have made a choice and must live with the consequences. There was a time when Christians mattered themselves in order to adhere to their god's words. Today, they just pick and choose, try to circumvent laws and statutes and want nothing short of a complete takeover of our humanity with NO options ... just isn't going to happen without much bloodshed. It should be difficult to be a pacifist and a bully at the same time, but you are well accomplished at it. You folks don't even try to make a case (because you cannot), so you spend most of your time badmouthing everyone else and all their accomplishments (most having nothing at all to do with you, your absent god or your corrupt church), all without even a basic working idea what it is all about. Like Jythier, you couldn't explain what evolution even is besides something to lobby against.

Reply #68 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 58
What in the world does “Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness” have to do with YOUR perceived idea of 'freedom of religion' anyway??? Does everyone have the same option, but of course not?

Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are rights based on the innate dignity of the person for we are made in the image and likeness of God. These rights are antecedent and independent of the State, and the measure of the State is the extent by which it respects and vindicates these antecedent rights.

Religious freedom is a fundamental human right because the most fundamental goal of mankind is to seek the meaning of life and the path to perfect happiness which can be only achieved in the next life, only in eternity.

Man's final goal is the vision of God and human life is a journey from earth to eternity in Heaven or in Hell.  It's up to man's use of his free will where he will spend eternity.

 

Reply #69 from JoeUser Forums Top

That right, you just keep at that slippery slope of defying the State and telling them how superior you are. There is a reason why there is no 'god' excuse allowed in a court of law, they don't appreciate hearsay either. You guys are going to get what you deserve out of this mess, and it isn't going to be to your liking as if anything ever is. Why don't you explain it to us then ... your idea of what freedoms you think you deserve just because you are a member of one the thousands of cults (and that is just Christian cults) … there are many thousands more. Making an insurance payment is like a church offering, you never know where the $$$'s go ... you assume. Well you just keep up your nonsense and there will be some laws enacted to protect me from the likes of you. Abortion as beastly as it is is not going away and the gays are going to beat your asses (pun intended).  Me, I am just going to sit here on my behind and watch it all transpire.

Reply #70 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 69
Why don't you explain it to us then ... your idea of what freedoms you think you deserve just because you are a member of one the thousands of cults (and that is just Christian cults)

I've explained it this entire discussion....the US Constitution guarantees the fundamental right of free exercise of religion ....including Christianity and the State via "Obamacare" and particularly its HHS Mandate is infringing upon our Constitutional right. 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 69
Me, I am just going to sit here on my behind and watch it all transpire.

You, as well as all Americans, especially senior citizens, ought to be very concerned because "Obamacare" isn't just a vehicle for birth control and abortion, it's also a vehicle for rationing, euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Socialized healthcare around the world has a track record...they squeeze the provider by cutting reimbursements and denying or limiting care to patients. In 2008, Obama answered a question saying, maybe you're better off, not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller. 

 

Reply #71 from JoeUser Forums Top

LULA LET ME BE CLEAR - I will do everything I can (not much) to see that Obama Care is reversed, but I have my own reasons which have NOTHING to do with you and your cronies in the RCC. If you want to talk religion then do so without me, if you want to discuss health care then do so with our religion and I will be happy to engage. But if you are going to whine about how health care is anti-religious then you are just another loon out of touch with reality as stated. There are plenty of reasons to replace Obama Care but none of them have anything to do with religion. Just wait till they start taxing church holdings (it is coming) for the political cesspools that they are. And the IRS is going to have a field day when they finally get the go ahead to get into the church books and records. Then you will really have something to whine and cry about.

Reply #72 from JoeUser Forums Top

GFT, why do you oppose Obamacare?

Reply #73 from JoeUser Forums Top

Because it is ridiculously expensive but still way underpriced, is too burdensome on the healthcare system they are actively trying to completely brake and because it forces people to buy something the government doesn’t have the moral or constitutional right to sell. Doesn’t mean they can't or won’t though because they are giving it their all.

Reply #74 from JoeUser Forums Top

Obamacare will be great.... if only the drafters can get the doctors to work for minimum wage 60 or 70 hours a week. Should encourage loads of future doctors too. I'm so glad we passed it to find out what's in it.

Reply #75 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Nitro, reply 74
Reply #74 Nitro Cruiser
Seems like they are making it common practice, this pass before you see nonsense. How in the world do they get away with it and why in the world is such a lack of transparency repeatedly tolerated. My guess is that both sides like the down-and-dirty enough to tolerate the other side when they are in power. Politics as usual it seems.