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Obama and Freedom of Religion

In my blog entitled, For Greater Gloryhttps://forums.joeuser.com/426259, I wrote that I think the release of this film is very timely and may help us gain a better understanding of the seriousness of the current Obama administration's attack on our freedom of religion in the form of his HHS mandate.
 
 
 
Denver archbishop: HHS mandate an attempt to remove religion from society
By Hillary Senour

.- Denver's newly-appointed archbishop says the federal contraception mandate is the result of a larger push to remove religion from the public sphere.

“Essentially what people are saying to us is, 'We want you to pretend you're agnostic or atheist like us, and that is the way society should be,'” Archbishop Samuel J. Aquila explained to CNA on May 28, as he assessed the thinking that made the mandate possible.

“Today what is happening is that those who do not want faith in the public square are really saying, 'It's our lack of faith, our unbelief that we want you to follow,'” he said.

Archbishop Aquila, who was announced as the new Archbishop of Denver on May 29, called the federal mandate a direct infringement on the First Amendment that is simply another example of  “the erosion of religious liberties” which has been occurring for some time.

“It's the violation of our consciences and it is the violation of religious liberty,” he said. 

In its current form, the federal contraception mandate would force employers to purchase health insurance to cover birth control, sterilizations and abortion-inducing drugs even if doing so violates their religious beliefs.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, announced a narrow “exemption” from the mandate for religious organizations that serve and employ only members of their own faith on Feb. 10.

Since then, 43 Catholic organizations across the country, including dioceses, charities, hospitals and universities, have filed lawsuits against the Obama administration on the grounds of religious liberty.

Bishops from every diocese in the U.S. have spoken out against the mandate, warning that it poses a serious threat to religious liberty and could force such organizations to shut down.

Archbishop Aquila said that he would “continue to speak out” against the mandate and will “ help people to recognize the violation that is taking place.”

Christians, he said, should do the same, even if doing so is unpopular.

“If we become martyrs, so be it,” he said. “It is for the Lord that we do it.”

Although such comments may sound pessimistic, the archbishop said that history has already proved that the Catholic Church is able to withstand such opposition.

Throughout the 2,000 year history of Christianity, “there have been the rise and fall of many governments,” Archbishop Aquila said, “but the Church is still here.”

 

51,053 views 99 replies
Reply #1 Top

Since then, 43 Catholic organizations across the country, including dioceses, charities, hospitals and universities, have filed lawsuits against the Obama administration on the grounds of religious liberty.

This fact has gone unreported by the mainstream media, Obama's lapdogs. 

Reply #2 Top

So, do you believe that faith trumps negligence?

I don't see the difference between denying someone basic healthcare vs sending your kid to a faith healer instead of a hospital.

I'm not being facetious, please explain the difference because I can't find a view on this dilemna.

Reply #3 Top

Killing babies - now basic healthcare.

 

Got it.

Reply #4 Top

Jythier nailed it. 

Exterminating humanity is the objective of the HHS mandate and of all the attacks against God, the Church and Christian morality.

 

To accomplish this they must dissolve religious liberty and force any doctor, company, institution to participate in abortion, contraception, euthanasia.

 

Reply #5 Top

I'm not even against some contraception, but most birth control has two-fold protection - it prevents ovulation, but if that fails, it makes the womb an unwelcoming environment in the case of fertilization.  Basically aborting the baby.  It's unclear enough whether a fertilized egg 'counts' that I err on the side of caution.  In my house, fertilized eggs should always have a welcoming environment, but I'll do what I can to keep them unfertilized.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Jythier, reply 5
In my house, fertilized eggs should always have a welcoming environment, but I'll do what I can to keep them unfertilized.

OoooKay! 

...........................................................................................................

See what you think of this article....

What’s behind the HHS mandate?

Gerard Bradley

June 13, 2012 (thePublicDiscourse.com) - What do the University of Notre Dame, EWTN, and the Archdiocese of New York have in common?

More than you probably think. Each is a Catholic institution, of course. Each is also suing the Obama Administration over the HHS “contraception” mandate. Each is going to be spared the Hobson’s choice between complying with the mandate and betraying its mission if any one of four possible scenarios comes to pass. Each nonetheless continues to stand in grave peril of institutional martyrdom.

The first scenario will play out by June 29, the last day of the current Supreme Court term. If the Court throws out the whole Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), the mandate will go with it. The reason is not that the pending decision is about contraception or religious liberty. It is that the mandate depends entirely for its force upon the survival of PPACA.

The second scenario will go down on November 6. If Mitt Romney is then elected our next president, you can be sure that he will soon thereafter announce his intention to rescind the mandate.

The chances that one of these two scenarios will occur are pretty high. The chances that the Obama administration will fare poorly in the pending lawsuits (by Cardinal Dolan, et al.) are pretty high, too. When those dim prospects become apparent to the administration, it is likely—and this is the third scenario—to invite the complaining Catholic institutions to the bargaining table, to significantly expand the current wafer-thin exemption from the mandate. But if the administration imprudently digs in its heels, some time in 2014 the Supreme Court is likely to rule that the exemption must be expanded in order to comply with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. That would be scenario number four.

Because it is almost certain that at least one of these possibilities will come to be, the day of reckoning for Notre Dame, Mother Angelica, and Cardinal Dolan will be postponed.

I say “postponed,” and not “canceled,” advisedly. The ideological commitments that have emboldened the Obama administration about contraception are deeply held. They are held to be very important. They are resilient. They are not limited to the reproductive rights supposedly protected by access to contraception, even when contraception is broadly defined to include abortifacient drugs. These deep convictions about liberty and equality and religion entail trouble for religious liberty, no matter which exit route the present mandate takes.

I say “entail” advisedly, too. Religious liberty in the new dispensation is derivative of these deeper moral and (as we shall see) epistemological commitments. Religious liberty is, from this point of view, an afterthought, a residue which is unfortunately too vaporous to protect Catholic institutions from existential crises.

What are these ideological commitments? There are three of special note.

The first is dedication to advancing the ideology of “equal sexual liberty.” This powerful complex of ideas comes in both straight and “gay” versions.

When President Obama announced his phony “compromise” about the mandate on February 10, he plainly stated what the mandate was for: “Every woman should be in control of the decisions which affect her health. Period.” Given the context of these remarks, Obama meant, specifically, what is usually called “reproductive health.” His overriding commitment to this reproductive health—evidenced by, for example, the “contraception” mandate—presupposes that women will and should have lots more sexual intercourse than they have interest in conceiving children. According to this widespread view, sexual license should never impede a woman’s lifestyle, at least no more than it does a man’s. Marking the most recent anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the President said that “our daughters must have the same opportunities as our sons.” Obama’s notion of equal opportunity extends to the bedroom as well as to the boardroom.

Catholic Charities in Boston and Washington, D.C., already have been martyred by the “gay” version of “equal sexual liberty.” They were obliged to abandon their adoption charities when public authority refused to accommodate their objections to same-sex “marriage.” Right now, Catholic schools in Ontario are being bullied by an “anti-bullying” law that compels parochial schools to set up “Gay-Straight Alliances.” These clubs would contradict the sexual morality that every Catholic institution is obliged before God and the Church to teach, by word and by deed. Were they to comply with this “bullying” law, Ontario’s Catholic schools could not give the perspicuous witness to the faith that is their raison d’etre, just as America’s Catholic schools could not, were they to comply with the Obama Administration’s “contraception” mandate.

This far into the Age of Aquarius, no more needs to be said about the meaning and seductive appeal of “equal sexual liberty.” It is the emerging public orthodoxy about where sexual satisfaction, expression, and identity fit into the good life, and about the government’s responsibilities to establish conditions that make this life achievable for all with ease. This orthodoxy commands the cultural heights and has achieved ascendancy in the academy. We are in the midst of a high-stakes fight over its grip on our law. The outcome of this battle is in doubt.

It is easy to see already that “equal sexual liberty” is a natural predator of Catholic institutions, which are standing contradictions of almost all that the new orthodoxy proposes. What is not so apparent, however, is why the new orthodoxy has so totally eclipsed considerations of conscience, tolerance, and liberty in the thinking of self-identifying liberals such as Barack Obama. It is scarcely surprising that he and other like-minded officials are beguiled by “equal sexual liberty.” It is nonetheless curious that they should so remorselessly subordinate religious liberty to the new ideological colossus. One would think that our cherished “first freedom” would have a bit more staying power.

Looking at what Obama and like-minded folks think about religion dispels the curiosity. I do not mean here to consider their opinion about the value of religion, which value Obama (for example) affirms to be very high. I refer instead to their understanding of religion’s relationship to certain strategic moral propositions, and to the truth-value of religious claims as such.

Hence, the second ideological commitment is to treat the moral propositions that undergird the conservative alternative to “equal sexual liberty” as subjective religious beliefs incapable of rational defense. These include the propositions that people begin at fertilization; that marriage is strictly limited to the union of man and woman; and that the norms of sexual morality are many and that they are rooted in the marital relation. These propositions combine to refute the emerging orthodoxy of “equal sexual liberty.” Being propositions about morality, moreover, they are asserted by their adherents as truths of reason, albeit truths that are confirmed by religious authorities and by revelation.

Promoters of the new orthodoxy nonetheless boldly declare these claims to be “religious beliefs,” tout court. They just as boldly declare that, because they are “religious beliefs,” these claims are rationally indefensible. They may be held by the faithful as if they are genuine truths. But in reality these putative truths are subjective projections, verbal formulae which may function as the ligaments of a community, as so many fallible and revisable expressions of the ineffable depths of spiritual experience. They are badges of individual or religious communal identity. Because they are rationally indefensible, they are to be perceived and to be treated by outsiders as prejudice. Religious “doctrine” is thus a species of bias. So, the Church’s moral condemnation of sodomy and opposition to same-sex “marriage” amount to hallowed homophobia.

The third commitment is to identify the public value of institutional ministries, such as Catholic Charities and Saint-Somebody Hospital, entirely with the “secular” services they offer. Adherents of the new orthodoxy can and often do recognize the value of these organizations’ religious identity—to the religious people who staff them. Anyone can see that religion supplies added motivation, enthusiasm, and meaning to many of those working in these ministries. But these peculiar satisfactions are construed by the new orthodox to be private; they are personal delights that do not register as any sort of public good. The public value of these ministries is comprised of just so many hot lunches prepared, heart bypasses performed, and reading competency tests passed. Viewed from the public square, then, these organizations’ religious character is invisible. Being invisible, it cannot have measurable value. Having no detectable value, it cannot serve to justify any allowance that would impair the government’s provision of conditions conducive to “equal sexual liberty.” So, exempting Catholic Charities from placing kids with a “gay” couple is a concession to private bias that is productive only of public mischief, insult, net loss.

An English Law Lord recently expressed this sum of the three orthodox commitments, in a case where he denied relief to a relationship counselor who could not in good conscience endorse the sexual activities of same-sex couples. Lord Justice Laws declared that any exemption would be “unprincipled,” for it would not “advance the general good on objective grounds, but … give effect to the force of subjective opinion.” How so? Laws asserted that it “must be so, since in the eye of everyone save the believer religious faith is necessarily subjective, being incommunicable by any kind of proof or evidence. It may of course be true; but the ascertainment of such a truth lies beyond the means by which laws are made in a reasonable society.” Against the demands of “equal sexual liberty” for homosexuals and lesbians, solicitude for the opaque commitments of the religious subject count for nothing.

It is natural, and right, to say that the HHS mandate undermines religious liberty. But it is important to add that this argument about religious liberty is more about the adjective than it is the noun. It is chiefly an argument about whether religion is about reality, truth, the way the cosmos is really structured, or whether it is about the byways of an individual’s psyche.

Gerard Bradley is Professor of Law at Notre Dame Law School and a senior fellow of the Witherspoon Institute. This article reprinted with permission from thepublicdiscourse.com.

Reply #7 Top

I think governments have lost their everloving mind and God will come to give it back to them soon, I hope.

Reply #8 Top

Cell clusters are not babies. (I think I can agree that there must be a "universal" point in which abortion should not be allowed. eg: I can agree that partial birth abortions are far over the line, but this doesn't seem to be the place where you are picking your fight)

The rhythm method of birth control produced more dead "cells" then birth control, so once again there is an all around wrongness in understanding the reality of the situation by a certain demographic of people.

This comes down to money, which is why conservatives are whipping up the bible thumpers into a frenzy. They don't want to pay for an economically efficient solution to problems with the human condition. The few of them pulling the strings would rather suck up a higher score in their bank accounts and leave society to burn.

This is pretty sad actually, because the value of money is dynamic. A strong and stable society, but smaller bank account "number" has far more value then a larger "number" in a bank account while productivity, happiness and prosperity dwindles.

Talk about a return to the dark ages.

Reply #9 Top

You want me to be legally obligated pay for a woman to be allowed to, for a small copay, legally kill something that I consider human.  Think about that for a minute.  Never mind how you feel about when life begins, or any universal standard, just think of what that means to me for a second.  Consider it. 

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Jythier, reply 9
You want me to be legally obligated pay for a woman to be allowed to, for a small copay, legally kill something that I consider human.
Pay your taxes as you see fit and good luck figuring out where the $$$ actually goes. Your opinion of human life is not germane to a discussion on “Freedom of Religion" (neither is mine). We have laws to regulate such things and the idiots who make those decisions don't care either because money is the biggest motivator by far ... for both sides of the debate.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting LORD-ORION, reply 8
Cell clusters are not babies.

Yes, they are. Science has confirmed that new human life is complete at fertilization. You and I were at that stage of our life's development. 

http://www.theospark.net/2011/11/video-alexander-tsiaras-conception-to.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheoSpark+%28Theo+Spark%29

 or 

 

This is a link to an amazing video on human life from conception to birth using the
newest x-ray scanning technology that won its two inventors the Nobel Peace Prize. 

This is a remarkable color video every  person should see. 

The man voice was a little distorted, but the video is amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=fKyljukBE70

Reply #12 Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=fKyljukBE70
Most TedTalks are worth watching and this one is no exception ... but there are explanations, natural ones. If you do not understand evolution or science, then this must seem like magic, but it isn't. You can take whatever you want (and you do, often) and just say 'it is too complex' and fooy on science ... just doesn't work for me. If you really 'believe' cell clusters are babies, I guess you didn't pay enough attention to the clip. I just thought this post was about the 'freedom of religion' ... not the freedom to decide what the world has to believe in.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 10
Quoting Jythier, reply 9You want me to be legally obligated pay for a woman to be allowed to, for a small copay, legally kill something that I consider human.Pay your taxes as you see fit and good luck figuring out where the $$$ actually goes. Your opinion of human life is not germane to a discussion on “Freedom of Religion" (neither is mine). We have laws to regulate such things and the idiots who make those decisions don't care either because money is the biggest motivator by far ... for both sides of the debate.

This just in - your beliefs have nothing to do with Freedom of Religion!  Also, the law tells us when we've destroyed human lives - it's only after they're born, so since the law says it, that should be good enough for me, regardless of what reality is.  Yay law.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 12
I just thought this post was about the 'freedom of religion' ..

It is, however, these topics or issues are all connected with freedom of religion.  

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 12
If you really 'believe' cell clusters are babies, I guess you didn't pay enough attention to the clip.

THIS SHOULD ANSWER IT. 

When Does Human Life Begin? The Final Answer
A human embryologist speaks out about socio-legal issues involving the human embryo.

C. Ward Kischer
2003
Reproduced with Permission

Since 1973, when Roe v. Wade was adjudicated, there have been many socio-legal issues involving the human embryo. Abortion, partial-birth abortion, in-vitro fertilization, fetal tissue research, human embryo research, stem cell research, cloning and genetic engineering are core issues of Human Embryology. Every one of these issues has been reduced to a question of when human life begins. And, that question is as prominent in the public media today as it was first posed in 1973.

For example: Bill O'Reilly, host of Fox News Cable channel program, The O'Reilly Factor, three times between July, 2001 and March, 2002, stated on his program: "No one knows when human life begins".

Two years ago, when the public debate centered around culturing early human embryos in a petri dish, Senator Orrin Hatch and former Senator Connie Mack both said: "it's not a human life until it is in the uterus" 1.

The lead editorial in the Arizona Daily Star of 26 January, 2003 states: A bill affirmed by the State Judiciary Committee requiring the gestational age of the unborn child be given to a woman before an abortion, was an "attempt to answer the emotionally charged question of when life begins". It also said "the bill is yet another attempt to convert a private medical issue into a moral and religious one".

USA Today reported on 24 January, 2003 that Amy White, who writes monthy commentaries for the St. Louis Post Dispatch, stated in an article about the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade: ". . .how can we navigate our way through the moral minefields . . . when we're still unsure when life begins?"

Duncan Hunter, California Congressman, is set to introduce a bill that declares "life begins at conception". Although such a bill has been introduced before, the issue has never come up for a vote.

Some state legislatures are considering similar action, e.g. New Hampshire. State Representative Barbara Hagan introduced her bill stating: "life begins at fertilization". Yet, opposing that bill, Representative Peter Allen, Democrat, declared it is still a matter of semantics as to when life begins. Another opponent, Democrat Representative Frances D. Potter, claimed the bill was "grounded in religion".

On 27 February, 2003, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a ban on human cloning. USA Today reported the next day on the vote and stated: "Some scientists . . . argue that tiny cloned embryos . . . are not the same as a human being. But opponents [to cloning] argue that the tiny cells are an individual life".

Thus, it is very clear that in the past 30 years the question as to when human life begins has not been resolved for much of the general public. It is also very clear that there are legions of pols and pundits who are totally refractive to scientific fact.

Further, it is unfortunate, but true, that much of the lay public has little background in basic reproductive biology, and even less in Human Embryology. As a consequence, this basic information has been rather easily corrupted within the public discourse.

The Science of Human Embryology

Hippocrates (460-377 B.C.) wrote about the development of the chick embryo. Later, Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) wrote a treatise on his observations of development of the chick embryo and other embryos. He is generally regarded as the "founder" of embryology. Subsequently, there were many published observations of embryonic and fetal development, including drawings of a dissected pregnant uterus by Leonardo da Vinci (15th century, A.D.), albeit with certain errors.

The invention of hand lenses and the microscope facilitated studies of the chick embryo by Marcello Malpighi (1628-1694), but also gave rise to one of the most profound errors in describing human development, that of the homunculus. This was a miniature human believed to have been seen within the head of a human spermatozoon and which presumed to enlarge when deposited in the female. This was the basis of the preformation theory and was believed by many well into the 18th century.

Eventually, this theory gave way to that of epigenesis, that is, the individual arose incrementally during development by way of "globules" or tissues developing and growing upon a preexisting "globule" or tissue. The cell theory developed by Schleiden and Schwann in 1839 hastened our knowledge of embryology and provided for the realization that a spermatozoon fuses with an oocyte ("egg") and forms a zygote, the single celled embryo, which then divides and adds more cells and tissues in defining the developing body.

Wilhelm Roux, Hans Spemann, winner of the Nobel prize in 1935, and others continued many experiments on invertebrates and lesser vertebrates and formed the basis for the science of experimental embryology, or, today recognized as developmental biology.

However, paraphrasing Pierre Charron (1541-1603), the proper study of mankind is man. The father of human embryology is generally regarded as Wilhelm His (1831-1904). He developed the method of reconstruction, that is, putting together descriptive drawings from sectioned human embryos to show a three dimensional structure.

Although the case for fertilization of the human oocyte by the human spermatozoon was made intuitively by observing the process in mammals more than 100 years ago, direct observation of the process in the human was made in about 1968. The significance of this was resolved experimentally with subsequent growth of the new individual and successful implantation with completion of development to birth. This was accomplished with the birth of baby Louise Brown in England in July, 1978. Other successes soon followed.

The Continuum of Life

The facts above, along with the constancy of the time of gestation, approximately 38 weeks, reasonably declare that the life of the new individual human being begins with fertilization. Virtually every human embryologist and every major textbook of Human Embryology states that fertilization marks the beginning of the life of the new individual human being.

The reason why this is true is the following:

from the moment when the sperm makes contact with the oocyte, under conditions we have come to understand and describe as normal, all subsequent development to birth of a living newborn is a fait accompli. That is to say, after that initial contact of spermatozoon and oocyte there is no subsequent moment or stage which is held in arbitration or abeyance by the mother, or the embryo or fetus. Nor is a second contribution, a signal or trigger, needed from the male in order to continue and complete development to birth. Human development is a continuum in which so - called stages overlap and blend one into another. Indeed, all of life is contained within a time continuum. Thus, the beginning of a new life is exacted by the beginning of fertilization, the reproductive event which is the essence of life.

Herein lies the importance of distinguishing between the science of developmental biology and the science of Human Embryology. Within the science of Human Embryology, the continuum of life is more fully appreciated. The fact that development and developmental principles do not cease with birth becomes more fully realized. So, the continuum of human development does not cease until death, whenever that may occur, in utero or at 100 years of age.

The Basic Terminology

For the lay person it is not important to remember embryological terms, or study their greek origins, for two reasons: 1. It is the continuum of life which is important as a biological fact, and 2. even human embryologists continue to discourse and refine our language. The terminology of Human Embryology is important only in the taxonomic sense. This terminology enables human embryologists to talk to one another. It is also important in the same way to some Obstetricians and Pediatricians. However, for the record, the following terms have virtually all been abused in media articles and the public discourse of the many socio - legal issues, including Congressional hearings. So, a quick review is necessary to identify those terms so abused.

When the sperm fuses with the secondary oocyte fertilization takes place. The fusion is referred to as a zygote, a single cell but with two pronuclei, each one containing either the maternal or the paternal chromosomes. The former are provided by the oocyte and the latter by the sperm. These pronuclei come together to reconstitute the proper number of chromosomes for our specie (called diploid), which is 46 chromosomes, including 2 sex chromosomes. From this coming together the single cell divides into two cells, and division continues until a cluster or ball of cells is formed called the morula. Soon thereafter, the cells in the morula divide and cluster so that a small cavity is formed, above which is a mass of cells. This is called the blastula, and when the cavity becomes larger the embryo is called the blastocyst and the mass of cells above it is called the inner cell mass or the ICM. Other events have taken place since fertilization, especially movement of the embryo down the fallopian tube, assumming fertilization has taken place in the upper third of the tube, which is optimal, so that the embryo is positioned properly within the uterus and ready for implantation. This takes 5 to 6 days. The outer rim of cells of the embryo has special properties allowing it to "invade" the lining of the uterus. Among the many simultaneous events occurring are changes in the cells of the embryo which "regulate" its destiny. Such regulation actually began at probably the first cell division of the embryo when an unusual but significant production of an immunosuppresant takes place, the early pregnancy factor. This prevents rejection of the "foreign" embryo by the mother.

In addition, the "regulation" taking place among the cells of the early embryo has to do with communications between the cells, which allow for movement of materials, providing signals or directions to a cell or cells prompting them to divide or not to divide, or to respond in general or specific ways which can direct their destiny or potentials.

One often hears the rallying cry from prochoice advocates: "my body, my choice". Certainly, they exercise a choice, but, it is not just "my body". There are two2 bodies, each genetically distinct, and each "foreign" to the other. It should be recognized that the body of the early embryo is very active in its daily rituals of survival.

Prior to about 14 days post-fertilization the embryo becomes composed of two layers, an upper or epi - layer, and a lower or hypo - layer. At 14 days a third layer appears wedged inbetween the upper and lower layers. At this time the cells of this third layer are dividing and the direction of movement of those cells is mostly toward the cranial end of the embyro, but also a lesser number and movement toward the caudal end of the embryo. This division and movement of the cells produces a primitive streak. Subsequently, the shape and form of the embryo change dramatically. Such phenomena as bending, folding and pleating sculpture the embryo into a more definitive form. This is largely brought about by differential proliferation. In other words, some cells, or groups of cells divide faster or slower than others. This changes the appearance and form of the embryo.

Every moment of development blends into the next succeeding moment. But, even common sense tells one that this so-called development does not cease at birth. It continues until death. At any point in time, during the continuum of life, there exists a whole, integrated human being. This is because over time from fertilization to a 100 year old senior, all of the characteristics of life change, albeit at different rates at different times: size, form, content, function, appearance, etc.

Pregnancy

Human embryologist Bruce Carlson, in his 1994 textbook: "Human Embryology and Developmental Biology", states in his opening sentence: "Human pregnancy begins with the fusion of the egg and the sperm. . ."[2]. This is so because the concern of Human Embryology is the human embryo whether it be in the fallopian tube, uterus, ectopically placed or in a petri dish. Additionally, for a pregnant woman, the expected time of delivery, fertilization age, time of gestation, or, the period of confinement is always calculated so that the time of pregnancy begins at fertilization.

The idea that pregnancy begins at implantation of the embryo in the uterus was generated more than 3 decades ago. At that time there were concerns about the actions of chemical contraceptives. Albert Rosenfeld wrote in his book: "Second Genesis" (1969):

Because these substances do not prevent the sperm from penetrating and fertilizing the ovum - the classic definition of conception - they are not strictly contraceptives. What they do is prevent the newly fertilized egg from implanting itself in the uterus. Since the interference occurs after conception, some hold that such practice constitutes abortion. A way around this impasse has been suggested by Dr. A.S. Parkes of Cambridge: Equate conception with the time of implantation rather than the time of fertilization - a difference of only a few days" 3 (my emphasis). Thus, a fact of science gave way to political correctness.

The Corruption of The Science of Human Embryology

How did the basic fact of when human life begins, and other facts about human development become so parsed, changed and corrupted? For the answer to that we have to look at what actually happened within the Supreme Court of The United States in 1973.

The Supreme Court:

Roe v. Wade

The modern day assault on Human Embryology began in 1973 in the oral arguments of Roe v. Wade, and in the majority opinion written by Justice Harry Blackmun4. He wrote: "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins". He referred to the "disciplines of medicine, philosophy and theology" as being "unable to arrive at any consensus". It appeared he was talking about biological life by inferring that "medicine" could define its beginning. But, then, Blackmun said the following: "There has always been strong support for the view that life does not begin until live birth. This was the belief of the Stoics." This was as if to say that science had not progressed since 300 B.C.

Clearly, Blackmun conflated biological life with philosophical life, even though biological life, per se was never referenced in his decision.

During oral arguments, in the second hearing before the Supreme Court, Robert Flowers, arguing for appellants, clearly stated the position of the State of Texas: "Human life begins at conception and is present throughout pregnancy." However, Justice Blackmun then asked Flowers if that was "a medical question"? Flowers then compromised his position by legitimizing Blackmun's restating Flowers' statement as a question, and said it (referring to the now accepted question when it was not a question at all) should be decided by "a legislative decision". In one fell swoop Flowers destroyed the scientific base of his testimony.

Then, Justice Marshall said: "I want you to give me a medical, a recognizable medical writing of any kind that says that at the time of conception the fetus is a person." Flowers responded: "I do not believe I could give that to you without researching through the briefs that have been filed in this case, your honor."

Clearly, Robert Flowers was not prepared to argue the biological life of the new individual human being, or to force the Justices to be consistent and cogent with their questions and/or statements.

In this case, was the behavior of the Supreme Court Justices disingenuous, intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant? Asking a question like this seems to apply a label of opprobrium; but, if so, it is richly deserved because the facts of science were readily available to the Justices who are staffed with an army of law clerks and assistants who could easily have obtained the vital scientific facts.

Webster v. Reproductive Health Services of Missouri

In the Webster case, adjudicated in October, 1988, an amici curiae brief of 167 distinguished scientists and physicians, including 11 Nobel Laureates, wrote in their summary of argument: "There is no scientific consensus that a human life begins at conception, at a given stage of fetal development, or at birth"! Not only is such a declaration outrageous, it is tantamount to 'The Big Lie'. How were these 167 chosen, and who were they? Susan Solomon, a graduate student at the University of Arizona College of Medicine, researched this group and concluded that NOT A SINGLE ONE was a human embryologist5.

Stenberg v. Carhart

In Stenberg v. Carhart, the Nebraska partial birth abortion case, adjudicated in June, 2000, no less than five (5) Justices used, acknowledged and endorsed the phrase "potential human life" in their written opinions6. This phrase had appeared in Blackmun's decision of Roe v. Wade in 1973. Twenty seven years later it remained certified.

In simple terms, human life is never potential. Life is life. A life that is not living, is dead. The conflation continues. The Justices infer a biological quality when they speak about the birthing, or partial birthing of the fetus, but then enjoin that with such quasi-legal terms as "person" and conclude that "life is potential".

They cannot avoid being compared to a similar decision made in Nazi Germany in the 1930s that some human life was subhuman, untermenschen; Lebens unwertenleben - lives unworthy of life.

Clearly, the revision of the science of Human Embryology began with Blackmun's decision in the Roe v. Wade case. In spite of volumes written to correct the errors, Blackmun's declaration has prevailed and given rise to a plethora of other revisions, some of them so egregious as to defy all common sense and recorded fact to the contrary.

 

Reply #15 Top

Of course that's true, but people don't like to say it's true because it would be inconvenient to them to say so.  Then you can't have an abortion.  Then invitro fertilization is creating lives that won't come to fruition.  The secondary control methods of birth control is then wrong, objectively, because it is harmful to a life.

 

It's easy if you just ask yourself when is life, life.  It's hard when you ask yourself, 'How human does it have to be to be human?'  On a scientific, DNA level, it's human and growing into a human at fertilization, but from the other perspective, it doesn't really look human... talk human... walk human... so where do you draw the line?  Why stop at birth?  Why is a baby suddenly living when it's born?  The true answer is, it's not living any more than it was a moment before.  And that answer goes back every moment of that baby's life until it gets to be a just-fertilized egg.

Reply #16 Top

Lula, all that stuff was unnecessary but you have to copy and paste anything semi complicated because you cannot do it yourself in your own words while sitting on your bible. First of all, you know my views on abortion or you should by now. Second I will grant that life begins with fertilization … but it is not a human being for quite some time. If you cannot differentiate a cell cluster from a human being, then put them in a dish and see how human they turn out. That is where they are when experimented on, in dishes. And what do you call the result of a fertilization of an egg with sperm while in a petri dish? And then after it is inserted into another human??? This is all about abortion and your desire to just have your own way all the time because you have an old book that you do not understand yourself. This op was supposed to be freedom of religion and all you can think about is how to deny others their rights to choose what they want while you cry for more for yourself. Abortion has nothing to do with religious freedom; it has to do with your dogmatic first century worldview.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 16
Lula, all that stuff was unnecessary but you have to copy and paste anything semi complicated because you cannot do it yourself in your own words

I offered the article because it serves the purpose of providing the whole gamut of facts around the question of when life begins. You may not appreciate it, but perhaps someone else will. 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 16
Second I will grant that life begins with fertilization … but it is not a human being for quite some time.

With this kind of thinking , then what kind of life begins with fertilization of a human ovum and sperm, if not a human life?

The very well documented intrauterine photography proves this is just a distinction without a difference. At 3 weeks, 21 days after fertilization, the heart beats with the baby's own blood. From 5 to 8 weeks gestation, the head becomes erect, the face develops, the eyes, ears, and nose appear, and the digits become demarcated. Both the brain and heart tracings are recordable and readable by eight weeks.  

 

Fertilization is the first stage of life...we were all at this stage at one point in our life.Every characteristic the human being will ever have is contained in the genes of the ovum and sperm as soon as united. From this point the human life undergoes continual development. 

All it needs is time and nutrition. Nurture this stage of human life, and it will grow and develop and a human baby is born. Kill it and the baby dies. Either way, it is human life, a human being. 

Granted the cell clusters do not resemble a young boy or girl, but neither does a baby resemble the old man or woman he/she will become. Science has proven that human life is one continuous cellular change, beginning with fertilization and ending with death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #18 Top

Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 17
Reply #17  lulapilgrim
If this is just going to be another bitch session so you can vent your ‘religious certitudes’,  then have fun. As to your scientific expertise, well you don’t actually seem to have any … for goodness sake, you think the universe is just a few thousand years. Well, if you really want to talk about the term ‘freedom of religion’ and what that actually means … then do so. References work quite well especially for the people who don't want to read them.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Jythier, reply 9
You want me to be legally obligated pay for a woman to be allowed to, for a small copay, legally kill something that I consider human.  Think about that for a minute.  Never mind how you feel about when life begins, or any universal standard, just think of what that means to me for a second.  Consider it. 

Well said. 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 12
I just thought this post was about the 'freedom of religion' ... not the freedom to decide what the world has to believe in.

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 16
This op was supposed to be freedom of religion and all you can think about is how to deny others their rights to choose what they want while you cry for more for yourself. Abortion has nothing to do with religious freedom; it has to do with your dogmatic first century worldview.

Obama and his administration toadies see child-killing, inside or outside the womb, as universal Health Care and he has dictated, via his HHS mandate, that we all must see it that way or else. The HHS mandate which is part of Obamacare legislation requires religiously affiliated institutions and organizations, --hospitals, schools, colleges and charities-- to pay for abortion inducing drugs, artificial birth control and services, and sterilization. If a Catholic institution refuses, it faces millions of dollars in fines or may be driven out of existence. 

Freedom of religion is our first and most fundamental liberty and Obama's HHS mandate attacks the Faith and freedom of religion. He's trying to make us pay for actions and services that the Catholic religion has always emphatically condemned as intrinsically evil.  

That's why in the OP I quoted Archbishop Aquila, who called the federal mandate a direct infringement on the First Amendment.

“It's the violation of our consciences and it is the violation of religious liberty,” he said. 

For over 2,000 years the Church has taught that human life begins at conception and that any deliberate participation in the killing of that defenseless life is a sin. CCC 2270-2275. And it's not just the Catholic religion which forbids this evil but rather, the will of God through divine and natural laws. 

 

Reply #20 Top

I thought so but I had to ask ... well it is your post so copy and paste to your heart's content and tell the world how much you feel denied and persecuted. And you folks have been wrong for 2,000 years because they didn't have the ability so it wasn't their fault. They just didn't have any science ... but you just reject science by choice and there is no excuse for that.

PS - Good bye Lula, play with someone else. You not only rely on others to explain your beliefs to you … you also rely on others to explain your scientific appeasements for you too.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 18
As to your scientific expertise, well you don’t actually seem to have any …

Ha, granted I have no scientific expertise, however, I know that Science has proven that human life begins at conception and is one continuous cellular change until death.  Legally, philosophically, and scientifically this life has always been regarded as human. That is until the diabolical 1973 Supreme Court decision.  

That human life begins at conception is something the Church has known for over 2,000 years. That's why from the earliest times, birth control and abortion was acknowledged to be a terrible evil. Genesis 38:8-10 states that God punished it by death becasue it is "a detestable thing." Aborticide has been condemned throughout history, by law, Medicine, and Judeo-Christian teaching. 

 

Reply #22 Top

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 20
well it is your post so copy and paste to your heart's content

Ya, sorta like you copy and pasting all those Utube videos in your posts! 

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 10
Your opinion of human life is not germane to a discussion on “Freedom of Religion" (neither is mine). We have laws to regulate such things and the idiots who make those decisions don't care either because money is the biggest motivator by far ... for both sides of the debate.

Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 20
I thought so but I had to ask ...

Just wanted to make sure you understood the connection is all. 

 

Reply #23 Top

Also, money runs the world, but your scientists and greatest minds are somehow not above the pull of money and/or making results fit into the preconceived mold they have created for themselves, and that they are paid to maintain?

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Jythier, reply 23
Also, money runs the world, but your scientists and greatest minds are somehow not above the pull of money and/or making results fit into the preconceived mold they have created for themselves, and that they are paid to maintain?
All you seem to need is a bible and you have all the information and equipment you need to disavow the best minds in the world just because you know. However the best minds in the world didn’t get there by shopping at yard sales. You and your like never ever vary from your lifelong dementia … EVER … but the scientists are supposed to, just to appease you … why??? If one is a scientist and still believes in a biblical creation, then they are not really scientists after all because they kneel at a magical alter and their priorities are dysfunctional, irrational. How does this silliness play out in your mind? “Top microbiologist in nation has almost enough capital to buy his first microscope to aid his research, all from selling pencils at the religious flea market where they sell fifty cent bibles.” Do you ever think out what your few brash words equates to in the real world? Do you EVER reflect upon yourself when you say such silly things like this? And why is it that everyone who doesn’t believe in your specific flavor of psychosis … is irrational, dysfunctional and hell-bent on destroying just your god because we all the others are just made up … when we well know who really believes in magic and who doesn’t???

PS - If Christians actually reflected Jesus in their thoughts and actions … there would be no problem here at all.

PSS - I still wouldn’t mind talking about ‘freedom of religion’ though if you can stop playing games.

PSSS – I really did know better …

Reply #25 Top

When the dating processes used by your 'scientists' dates 100 year-old rocks at millions to billions of years old, don't you think there might be a problem with those processes?  And, if there's a problem with that process, how can we rely on data from those processes to date other things?  And if we rely on that broken process to get to the billions of years you say there have been, how is that scientifically proven?  All science has done is prove that the dating process relied upon is inaccurate - now that's some science there.