it's quite easy to explain.

a military operation learns from what is done, the lvl gain on the ships giving them more abilities, more hp firepower etc. would NEVER come from any experience that the crew members got, but from the experience the military operation got = they would know how to use the ships ALREADY mounted mechanics (you would never set a unknown idiot into a cap ship, and knowing which weaponry the ship have is the minimum to read in the manual).

the issue with the steamrolling you already got when you lose high lvl cap ships, since they are also insanely strong at higher lvl compared to lower, not to mention the support they add.

i really do feel liket it is a fine idea to have a lvl that sticks, i think it is needed for all the cap ships as well, i would like to see some kinda system that allows you to switch out types of cap ship and keep the lvl (lets say i got a lvl 7 battleship, and i build a carrier, the carrier should be lvl 7 as well to keep up with the lvl of the combat it is gonna enter directly into).

i think that the only way to archieve something like this is to let it be a upgrade in the same manner as the combat research skills (let there be a researching which gives lvl 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. and makes it stick, obviously let the requirement for these be in a balanced amount of research so that you can't just instant rush lvl only, this could be done by letting them be excluded untill x research have been done within that "tree".)

i do love the idea of ships lvling in combat, the problem is just that it gets too dependent on the individual ships (which can be focused and instantly killed in big battle's) and losing these is way too harsh.

it gives the feeling of WC3 instead of Wc2 (where heroes are suddenly the main focus of the battle and once you killed the enemy hero you won+-).

the titans especially with their insanely high aoe dmg seems to make smaller ships even less effective and more useless then they already are :/

homeworld had a pretty good stick on it "every ship was needed since they countered higher tier ships and lower tiers" so getting 3 types wasnt enough to fight effectively. i would love a bit more of that

more effective small ships countering specific bigger ship types etc. so that you had to have small ships as well as big once ^^

anyway for the lvling i really think that there is a need for some kinda static lvl, maybe alongside the lvling making you at least get a decend lvl ship instead of lvl 1 if you where unlucky and lost a ship.

(titans are so hard to lose that they are actually of minor concern since you won't be able to focus kill them fast in a fight, and they can just warp out if you tried and you will have lost most of your army on it while the other guy just evacuete and repair.)

and u r an idiot

the titans got nerfed in beta 2 so there cost should go down

if u lose a high lvl titan and ur titan doesnt retain its lvl U JUST LOST THE GAME...but since it does u still have a fighting chance

its called escape pods

Great update!

no that would probably make cap op they shouldnt recover lvl and shouldnt be able to buy lvls past lvl 4

My basic viewpoint is the same regarding the titans as it is largely for the Capitol ships. You should not have to build / train a titan to a high level to win a game. You should not have to have a 'if I lose this unit I lose the game' style of ship. Everyone rushes to titans because if you don't, you lose and I dislike this game mechanic.

In my opinion, the 'retaining xp and level' of titans is a band-aid balance fix to a balance problem that should not exist in the first place. Rebellion largely is all about rushing to build your titan and level it up to win the game and if you lose that titan you effectively have lost the game. Personally I think this is the wrong direction and that titans should be heavy capital ships that should not be limited to a single ship in service (but rather have very high fleet supply), but again that's just my opinion.

Or they just clone the crew.

They do that, you know.

If they keep their xp and level, that's even more reason why people will rush to Titans, and forgo the early cap ship battles.

I have to guess it's to cover an AI liability, if you desroy the AI's Titan, it won't be able to recover, but don't  change game mechanics to cover a AI deficiency.

Titans level up very quickly, I don't think they need the extra help.

well it all depends which kinda gameplay you are looking for; is it the harsh "you better keep a eye on your fleet and if the enemy focused 1 importent ship down your fcked" kinda gameplay AKA micro gameplay, or is it the macro gameplay you are looking for?.

personally i don't like micro gameplay, it's broken in any rts and it is only about finding a way to abuse mechanic/ai/etc AKA exploiting the lack of programming skills/knowledge/insight of the creator of the game.

therefore i would like to see lvls stick and be dependent on upgrades rather then battles rushed through(which makes MUCH more sense in the rpg view).

i think that sin is designed around macro not micro gameplay and therefore i would like it to stay true to that nature. adding something as powerfull as a titan into the game is freaking AWESOME but at the same time it adds a whole new demension to combat since the whole combat will revolve around your titan+-.

as it is now you will have a combat where it's about focusing the other players cap ships down and warp yours out leaving your army to die as long as you can keep the caps alive you will win (becouse 10 lvl 10 caps + full fleet support and lvl 10 titan vs. 10 lvl 1 caps etc. its not even a fight, its a easy steamroll).

again i think keeping the lvl on the titan is a very good idea, but so is keeping the lvls of the cap ships, and if you only keep the lvl of the titan not the cap ships well that will make a wierd micro type gameplay for cap use where people are going to sacrifice their lvl 10 titan to take out 1 lvl 10 cap ship since it is worth it time/price wise becouse of the cap starting at lvl 1 and you rebuild the titan as lvl 10.

Sins is about micro always was and will be,

martox1 your logic is lover then my 6 years old son.

It was nerfed so it should be buffed and escape pods. Where is the sens in that?

It was nefred cause it was god for gameplay and now the lower cost of titan  is wrong as it suppouse to be a bit more expensive then in 0,62.

Also keeping exp and level is totaly against anything that sins was so far.

Its reducing the importance of skill and micro and leveling to the dummest.

I know i have narrow perspective of 5v5 human only games and u might disagree when playing against ai or mods.

Solution is, to add titan paramete to games startup menu so host will be able to pick out of 2-3 choices haw much titan cost and does it keep the leve and xp or not.

first of learn the difference between macro and micro. sc2 very micro orientated, sins very macro orientated.

secondly if you are trying to insult some one at least spell something as simple as LOWER!! correct. else you will just stand out as a rude idiot.

escape pods doesnt make much less sense then how the ships can have unlimited ammo and material for repairing the ships.

the whole lvling system in sins on cap ships is insanely unrealistic "so the crew on the ship gets a better hang on the actual feeling of combat, which would maybe set up their performance by 3-5% compared to the x thousinds of training hours before they got on a cap ship, but in sin they suddenly finds the "hidden" ability which no one knew the ship had before the crew lvled . so either the crew is total retards and no one bothered to read the manual or even train to fly this x billion dollers ship or it magically got new machinary in the middle of combat... yer right... ".

talking about realism when talking about lvling in sins is quite thin. at best you can say that the military with experience found it more effective to equep the ship with these extra devirses, why they would not do that with the next exact same capship, no one knows

the fact that there is no friendly fire, or friendly collision makes it possible to focus fire in a way which it should never be, adding the amount of aoe weaponry there should be and yer... basicly what i am saying is that IF you lose all lvls the focus firing needs to be fixed to stop the ships from being instantpopped. and the base mechanic changed so my ship in space can instantly move directly backwards (its not a boat and even a boat would be able to go directly backwards not having to "sail" through the enemy lines to withdraw.).

as i mentioned, its a matter of tasted. do you want the kinda game where you micro managed and try to bug out ai to win or the game where you macro manage and try to get the correct combination of units and setup to beat the other players units and setup dependent on the best choices all through the game?.

personally i like the road where you think more and react less(less apm spamming) AKA macro. which sin is made for (slow movement, killing, etc. LOTS of time in general to think more then bottom spamming. opposite what sc/sc2 is like.)

now that i can agree with

not really a solution... you want the same done to capital ships?

Im known around here for bad spelling , get use to it

You clearly decribed your point of wiev  , and its totaly opposite to mine.

Sins is micro , not as fast as sc2 but it is. The fact u didnt notice it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

If ill want to insult someone ill use proper words. That wasnt an insult, that was  a calling thing by name, straight.

I understand playing vs ai may look like macro byt MP  micro and macro are of same importance.

I see the tendency of making micro less and less important with every addon. Its sad.

There should be at least an option  for a host to decide whith rule he likes more. titan to loose his level and xp when killed or not) a ffs its about titan not all caps.

in sin you use the majority of your energi on insuring you got the right combination of unit, the right amount of planets with the correct resources etc.

it's really the minority of your energi that goes to insure that EVERY single unit on the battlefield use their individual abilities or micro'ing them 2 steps back to bug out the ai to not be able to hit them.

the only micro in sin is the times where you move of cap ships to insure their focus fire doenst kill them and the occasional use of few very specific active ability which doesnt fuction well on their auto use

i really love that sin is moving more to a pure macro focused playstyle, since the whole game is created around this slow planning type gameplay not the fastpasted apm spamming playstyle (like sc2, which you should play if you want micro over macro.)

sins is actually the only real rts game out there which seems to focus more on macro then micro and i would want it to be even more so you could set up premade tactics for your fleet etc. would be awesome

I wonder if their is a difference in the use of Titans in games against AI and games against another person?

I only play against AI (I know: Billy no mates!) and I would prefer not to have the Titan return to the same level. I play 10 opponents on a Huge map at Vicious Random level using my the map designer to even it up (no wormholes and lots of pirates). If my Titan is destroyed then I can build another and get experience points to level up. Maybe it should be an option in the game options?

I am getting a bug where a capital ship(s) or Titan (mine or AI) is stuck on a planet and goes invisible and won't respond to orders. I had to deatroy two ships and lose their experience points just to get the supply points back. In another game my opponent lost his Titan. It showed up in the planet list but was invisible.

As for the Advent Rebel Titan, what is this great ability it is supposed to have? I built one but didn't build that ability for it because when i played against it in other games every time it was destroyed it did virtually nothing to my force.

Send a bug-report and a save file (if repeatable) into StarDock.

Hi, 

i dont know if it is really known. If you want to upgrade the advent titan hull (loyalist) to level 4 and klick on the grey button game will crash, although you cant upgrade it.

Ciao, prophi

If you want a hard-counter to Titans that make them an option rather than a necessity, then why not make them targetable by long-range bombardment ships? It poses a bit of a problem for the Vasari, but it's still an idea. 

I've submitted a save game file for disappearing Titan (worse than disappearing Cap ship!!).  Same type issue as Cap ship, shows in grav well icon list, but when you click on it the map zooms to a blank starfield with no ship and when given move orders nothing ever happens.

Well, maybe if the Titan lost 1 level or 20% xp upon dying, that would make everyone happy? It would still be nearly as powerful as before, but it would still hurt to lose it. However having it lose all its levels would definitely end the game for the one losing the titan.

So, I am positive on penalties for losing a titan more than just the resources, but back to level 1 is too harsh.

Also any mechanic having a titan lose experience would make the ART Ult as it is even more stupid ^^.

Also the %based xp loss would probably be more useful than a fixed level, as it would hurt high leveled titans more than lower ones.

UGH...game repeatedly chants VICTORY! over and over after you win and opt to keep playing...yes I've reinstalled twice...

Known bug. It'll be fixed in the next update.

The new shader (GS_ShadowedShip.fx ) does not throw a shadow if put on a particle and the shadow of the ship received by the particle gets never updated from it's initial projection. (Already mentioned in two other threads, please don't begrudge me for it )

Oh, and please make planets and asteroids throw shadows onto ships as well!

What's the patching schedule out of curiosity?