Draginol Draginol

Tactical battle: Pure AI

▼

Tactical battle: Pure AI

from JoeUser Forums

I’m one of those people who have traditionally disliked tactical battles because I hate having to fight all of them out.

In FE, my goal is to make it so that the AI does a pretty good job of fighting the battle for you. You’ll still want to fight it out if it’s a close thing or if there are particular units you want to spare. But overall, it does a decent job.

Right now, I’m still toying with the concept of having units retreat from battle to let others take their place. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not in *this* game given the game mechanics. 

Here’s a battle where my side lost but in 0.77 would have been a walk over because the tactical AI sucked so badly.

http://screencast.com/t/Uj0Wp0DAU

Also, fun tactical battles:

image

 

[Warning: Explicit]

image

One of the big changes in FE beta 2 that wasn’t in GalCiv II was the concept of army groups. 

Who here is a WW2 history nut? If so, you know what army groups are.

Well, I put in army groups to fix a different flaw in the AI but I didn’t recognize the issue they created. The AI is now really good at having armies from different cities converge on a single city on the same turn (the AI treats army groups as a single unit).

I’ll await feedback but I’m thinking normal is too hard now.

55,354 views 67 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
They always did.

Just a reminder: The tacitcal AI in your build doesn't exist.

I'm really getting pissed off at some of our AI stuff.

Some of it is ridiculous that we may have to tone down.

A human being wouldn't be able to coordinate 4 different armies arriving at a target city in the same turn.

Game sucks.

Screw this!

 

I could not say it better _ screw this Im not playing this beta anymore...

Right after I finish this next 500 turns!!!!

 

*_*

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

I do have to say Frogboy’s comments had me laughing so hard my wife (she sits across from me) thought I was going crazy… well more crazy then normal that is. :)

CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

Is there any possibility that doing a massed sneak-attack against a city is too easy currently? Maybe slow down the movement of enemy armies in your territory, this way you would have more time to react. The result could be some epic battles, when both sides mass their armies for a huge clash. I would like that :)

Reply #55 from Stardock Forums Top

Without a good AI there is no game. I love what I am reading.

 

Keep it up All hail the mighty :frogboy:

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

The next big area to tackle will be diplomacy. It's basically untouched from beta 1.

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm hoping Sovereigns will influence diplomacy and not just Races.   *_*    I guess this also means providing appropriate ways for custom sovereigns to have their diplomatic predispositions tweaked.

Reply #58 from Stardock Forums Top

I never understood why anyone would not like tactical battles or let the computer do the funnest part of the game? To me the most important and funnest part of games like this is the tactical combat. And I do fight each one no matter the odds. Well every one have different taste I suppose.

Reply #59 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
They always did.

Just a reminder: The tacitcal AI in your build doesn't exist.

I'm really getting pissed off at some of our AI stuff.

Some of it is ridiculous that we may have to tone down.

A human being wouldn't be able to coordinate 4 different armies arriving at a target city in the same turn.

Game sucks.

Screw this!


Umm if your going to 'tone it down' then at least leave the option to keep it this hard for those of us who like th game to be challanging. (Unless I missunderstood something)

Reply #60 from Stardock Forums Top

When I load the new beta this evening I want the AI to "KICK MY ASS"on Normal  and make me hide under my bed and cry for my mommy.

Reply #61 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Alterson, reply 32



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 17
I would have won if I had rally points and could coordinate like that.


You may consider making this a tech or upgrade.

An armies ability to coordinate movement and communicate is extremely vital even in today's age of instant communication let alone the pseudo medieval world of Elemental.

One thing that sticks in my mind from reading Thomas F. Madden's New Concise History of the Crusades was how much time, men, and treasure was lost by armies sitting around waiting for other armies to show up (sometimes many months).  An army could be delayed for so long that their fellows would continue on without them to disastrous results.

Since being able to precisely coordinate multiple groups of soldiers is a pretty big deal in both real life and in game terms you may consider making it a tech or upgrade that must be earned instead of a "freebie".

 

 

I like this. Research a tech to get a more accurate path calculation. You could have one per tech tree. Magic Tree could be called Crystal ball, War Tree could be smoke signals (or something to this effect) and Civ Tree could be oh I don't know a telegraph (I know this is a little modern but hey it is a game :)

The reason I say one for each tech is because I'm hoping that the three techs will in future betas be completely separate from one another. Which means all prereqs. would only be from the current tree not from other trees. This would allow for better specialization

 

Reply #62 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 44
-snip-

Sorry for the 4am wall of text guys.

 
Huh? What? Whadda ya want? Can't you see I'm busy playing your game?

 

 

;)

 

I love the fact that you communicate. I love it that you express yourself. Just keep doing what you do :)

Reply #63 from Elemental Forums Top

After playing the beta 2 for some time, it is clear the army-group AI is very good. However, the "civilization building" AI isn't good enough yet, I can usually get a decent lead and after that it isn't too important how well the AI attacks.

I think I know the reason why I can get the lead in civilization building. I don't think I do particularly well in choosing the right build order or anything like that. These are the keys to my success:

  1. Collect as much loot as possible. Sell most of it. This is the most important key to my success. You can usually get 1000 or 2000g in the bank and run your civilization with no taxes for a long time with that. You can also rush key buildings if you wish. However, zero tax is usually the better choice in the long run.
  2. Spam outposts near all resources you can see. Pioneers are cheap.
  3. Do not build too many cities in the early game, it is expensive to run multiple small cities. When you have multiple +x growth buildings available, then city spamming starts to make sense.

The issue is that you can get crazy amounts of loot money through selling compared to what you can get from your early civilization. The solution is simple: the more expensive loot is available only from (hard) quests and from well-defended dungeons. Well defended means you can't lure the defenders away so that you can steal the loot... I think goodie huts should be mostly turned into quests or dungeons. Dungeon being something similar to what is in MOM: loot guarded by static monsters.

In addition to the above, I can fight harder battles than the AI. This is because the AI gives a lot of advantage to the human by moving in his troops in an uncoordinated way (why move in at all if you have archers and your enemy doesn't?), and worse yet, in a way that allows me to have the first attacks. In a 5 militia vs 5 militia fight this means I will get to kill two of his militias before he can strike back. This is mainly tactical battle mechanics issue: if both players play perfectly in the 5 vs 5 militia battle, neither will move in first.

Reply #64 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Horemheb, reply 63
After playing the beta 2 for some time, it is clear the army-group AI is very good.

A few small nit picks would be Pioneers in armies (scouts have weapons, so are fine I suppose), and archers attacking city militia first.

 

Ranged units should almost always target enemy ranged units first, regardless of armor considerations ...

(unless a non-armored cavalry threatens them within this round, then target the no-armor horses first and then hit the archers)

Reply #65 from Elemental Forums Top

How did you get beat by this AI Frogsy?   :ninja:

Reply #66 from Elemental Forums Top

He probably played on Rediculous ;) ... as, if going by description, rediculous is the only setting to have max AI ;)

Reply #67 from Elemental Forums Top

since frogbog mentioned diplomacy... I had Gilden declare war on me the turn after I secured a non-aggression pact in the game before last ... so many things are looking miles better but AI diplomacy still stands out a little

(they were x2 my faction power but still seems off to be able to declare war like that. Then they pillaged and burned, attacking my rear when I expected a frontal assault... with a mixed stack made of half pioneers... bit odd that part)