Tactical battle: Pure AI

from JoeUser Forums

I’m one of those people who have traditionally disliked tactical battles because I hate having to fight all of them out.

In FE, my goal is to make it so that the AI does a pretty good job of fighting the battle for you. You’ll still want to fight it out if it’s a close thing or if there are particular units you want to spare. But overall, it does a decent job.

Right now, I’m still toying with the concept of having units retreat from battle to let others take their place. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not in *this* game given the game mechanics. 

Here’s a battle where my side lost but in 0.77 would have been a walk over because the tactical AI sucked so badly.

http://screencast.com/t/Uj0Wp0DAU

Also, fun tactical battles:

image

 

[Warning: Explicit]

image

One of the big changes in FE beta 2 that wasn’t in GalCiv II was the concept of army groups. 

Who here is a WW2 history nut? If so, you know what army groups are.

Well, I put in army groups to fix a different flaw in the AI but I didn’t recognize the issue they created. The AI is now really good at having armies from different cities converge on a single city on the same turn (the AI treats army groups as a single unit).

I’ll await feedback but I’m thinking normal is too hard now.

55,303 views 67 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh frak that! Since when do hoarder spiders have Mass Daze?  8O

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

very cool

 

 

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

They always did.

Just a reminder: The tacitcal AI in your build doesn't exist.

I'm really getting pissed off at some of our AI stuff.

Some of it is ridiculous that we may have to tone down.

A human being wouldn't be able to coordinate 4 different armies arriving at a target city in the same turn.

Game sucks.

Screw this!

;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

What does Daze/Mass Daze do?

(and how come when the spider uses Mass Daze, it still just says "Daze" above the spider instead of "Mass Daze")

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top


Ender could O:)

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
Game sucks.

Screw this!

:frogboy: defeated by his own creation.

Don't tone down AI on normal. At least not before I could face it!  :grin:

What is "sniper"? Super-accurate archer?

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I just didn't realize the significance of army groups when combined with the pure mathematics of AI.

I'm in Skype right now complaining to Derek that humans can't see how many turns it'll take their unit to reach a destination but the AI has no problem computing that.

Of course, the AI also has the rally points from GalCiv II which we're not currently providing players. But that's different!

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 7
I'm in Skype right now complaining to Derek that humans can't see how many turns it'll take their unit to reach a destination but the AI has no problem computing that.

Before reading this I actually thought about making a pre-emptive BETA 2 UI problem report thread saying that the path indication system you are going to implement doesn't have turn labels for each square in the path. As a human I need this information displayed on the screen, there is really very little use of the path estimation system without the turn information.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

You must really enjoy making us crazy over the next two days. 

As far as the AI goes... 

 

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED  

 

:d

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
They always did.

Just a reminder: The tacitcal AI in your build doesn't exist.

I'm really getting pissed off at some of our AI stuff.

Some of it is ridiculous that we may have to tone down.

A human being wouldn't be able to coordinate 4 different armies arriving at a target city in the same turn.

Game sucks.

Screw this!

Thanks for making skynet. Now we're all going to die.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

My thoughts exactly.

Here's the thing I'm bitching about:

I've been able to write up all kinds of sick stuff for the AI to do that the human can't realistically do because there's no UI.

I've written up rally points, army groups (you guys deal with armies one unit at a time, I look at the map in terms of GROUPS of armies).

Even tactically you humans are pathetic.  You never look at the big picture. You worry about saving a precious unit here or maximizing a unit's HP there or what have you without looking at all your units all over and what's best globally.

And don't even get me started on your money handling or mana handling or experience.  

The AI will always have a better level of experience than you guys because you guys will insist on running around with several champions at once. You're too lazy to just send a single champion to take out a single spider or have a single champion move out of an army to take out a lair. 

The "l33t" will still beat the AI on normal and even challenging but I'll love to hear how they do it. Odds are, it'll be through a loophole. I'm still having a hard time getting the AI to counterspell spells.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

OH HAi brad, i am thinking of preordering.  Rest assured I will have plenty of complaints for u.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I am definitely looking forward to the new AI.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Just lost.

Hate.

So.

Much.

Hate.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 13
I am definitely looking forward to the new AI.

If you win, Tasaunke, I will stalk you. It's what I do now.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sir_Linque, reply 8
Before reading this I actually thought about making a pre-emptive BETA 2 UI problem report thread saying that the path indication system you are going to implement doesn't have turn labels for each square in the path. As a human I need this information displayed on the screen, there is really very little use of the path estimation system without the turn information.

This.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Screw this.

I was playing well.

It's not me.

It's math.

The UI needs more features.

I would have won if I had rally points and could coordinate like that.

 

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Path (turn time) estimation would be nice.

Rally points would be a good stop-gap, when not wanting to recalculate unit moves each turn. (alternatively a unit could stop auto-pathing once an enemy unit comes in site)

 

 

And ... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED :frogboy:

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

I didn't lose.

The AI cheated.

I just want that for the record.

If I had the same tools as the AI. i would have won.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 19
I had this game won.

The AI cheated.

Really.

If you think about it, it was cheating. Mathematically plotting when units would converge from across the map is cheating. It's BS.

Mastermind with a very high computing power always wins. Watch this. He is not cheating (he cannot see through walls, or see the future). He is just coordinating. In a very subtle way. (I love Fringe.)

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

 

I'm going to have to come up with some stuff here because I can't have regular people getting creamed at normal.

Challenging is supposed to be the level where experienced players lose 50% of the time. Not normal.

I didn't realize the impact of the army group code at the time.

Plus, in 0.77, the tactical battle AI is a total joke. Did you guys even realize that the monsters have special abilities? It's amazing how much of MOM would change if the monsters and opponents didn't use their abilities.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
They always did.

Just a reminder: The tacitcal AI in your build doesn't exist.

I'm really getting pissed off at some of our AI stuff.

Some of it is ridiculous that we may have to tone down.

A human being wouldn't be able to coordinate 4 different armies arriving at a target city in the same turn.

Game sucks.

Screw this!

 

Instead of toning it down, can it be made optional?

 

The idea of units retreating/being replaced- I'm all for it, I think it's likely to become a needed mechanic- the 9 unit limitation may become cumbersome (please make that moddable).

 

That said, monsters, especially animals , should have a dumbed down AI, they're dumb animals.

 

 

 

 

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

I still have a few loopholes I never reported. Just for this kind of situation. 

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

The gauntlet has been thrown down.  I will put my EWOM 37-0 record on the line against the EFE Beta 2.