Madness hit my little country

There seem to be a lot of nutters running around Europe at the moment. A couple of articles I've read lately have pointed out that (ultra) Right Wing Nationalism is growing throughout Europe, and support for such groups has been rising on places like Facebook, etc. If there's any credence to what these articles say, things are looking worse than I thought, and if left unchecked, a very bad part of History is maybe going to repeat itself.

My heart goes out for the people of Belgium.

He was just a small minded evil man who found a way to hurt as many people as he could. History is filled with these men, it's just easier for an individual to buy/make items to have maximum damage to innocent people. It's the sigh of the times ...

Down here in OZ we will send back non native criminals to their country if they are considered dangerous to society.

Breivik was insane, the political leanings of a paranoid psychotic aren't particularly relevant, one boogie man will work as well as the next when they finally jump the boat.  Odds are the new guy is too.  We used to lock up people with mental problems that were a danger to others if they went off their meds, but that's just barbaric!  So now we wait for them to kill people first, and then we lock them up till they're back in balance to go repeat the cycle.

As the right wingers tend to be more in line with individual responsibility, as opposed to collectivism, they're really not the groups to be worried about.  When you're finished getting flushed down the swirly by your big spending compatriots in the EU triggering the next world depression, assuming us yanks don't beat them to it, you get to watch the left wingers riot and burn the world because their checks stop coming.

yeah - sad to hear this.  Thanks for sharing.

Ah yes, right wing people are all really nice people and the world would be a perfect place if they would run it, and left wing people are really just egocentric savages, held only in check getting things for free from the honest hard working right wingers. How the #$%^&^* do you arive at that point in a thread like this?

OT; I live close to belgium and visit it quite a lot. Scary to have something like that happen so close by. Although, thinking about it, stuff like this happens more often than you'd think, even in our part of the world..

Sorry to hear Thoumsin--and "right" or "left" wing had nothing to do with this.  It was murder and a person willing to do that is the problem.

Yes, nationalism is growing in Europe... when something go wrong, like the actual economic world crisis, people say that it is the fault of other, perfect growing ground for nationalism...

Problem is not really a political one but more about some people being crazy, individual becoming nuts... the place of so people are not outside or in jail but behind closed door in some mental institution...

Army can fight a war, police can fight criminal, gov can fight terrorism with some success... but who can protect us of people become crazy? 

About history... in the case of my country, we need to go back a lot of years for similar result... i remember long time ago the CCC  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Combatant_Cells ) who was more a terrorist political group or the "tueurs fou du brabant" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nijvel_gang ) who was a thief organization... until now, i have always think that people going crazy like this happen mainly in US or in video game like "postal"...

If i look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres , Belgium is only listed in 1944 and 1945, during war time... well, soon, we will be the last entry of the list... i have always feel secure in my country... until today... i will not visit any christmas market these year... who know, there is maybe a other mad man lurking around...

so sorry to hear of the mayhem of yet another nutter.... 

I was just thinking of your country yesterday.... and how fantastic it was they handed down some serious time for that honour killing.... about time really strong messages are sent in that area....just not acceptable to keep excusing it as...culture..and tread lighter....  link...     

Condolences to the families directly affected....and the whole of the Belgium family today...  

There is nothing wrong with people from right or left... problem are with extremist... anarchism and communist for the left side or fascists or neo-nazis for the right...

Any way, in these case, it is not about war, not about terrorism, not about religion, not about politic... but it is more psychoak have wrote : a mad men... seem that more and more of them are walking our street...

I love how blatantly bias and untruthful media is by labeling violent groups "rightwing", big on small government where they?  Communists are as far left as you can get and they were rabidly anti-semantic. Fascists actually believe in strong central government and strong controls on the market, which actually makes them very "left-wing",  but the media finds that truth a little inconvenient. If you don't believe it then look it up.

That said my heart goes out to your country.

Well, it is a other topic... and it is only the top of the iceberg... honour killing is very rare... what is really disgusting is that some people are obligated to marry somebody that they don't know... this is the real problem but nobody really care...

As for the "going postal" guy, it is the top of the iceberg too... in our modern society, there is more and more anti-social comportment, free violence again other, manifestation who turn in riot, young people who form gang and terrorize other,etc...

Nutterism is rampant everywhere in the world. As far as right or left wing extremists...I kinda doubt these people are thinking on those terms when they blow someone up...but it makes for good media propaganda I guess. It's all Obamas fault.

Fascism also incorporates many other elements that pull it towards the right end of the spectrum, so to speak. But the whole left-right spectrum is way to simplified to accurately place different political movements. And when people start equating it with the 'good vs evil' spectrum, that's where ugly situations start happening. Doesn't matter which side of the former spectrum you'd place yourself on.

There's no reason to stop doing that. If pretty soon there's a second, third, etc.. shooting (inspired by the previous), then it's a different story. But the chance of getting killed in a terrorist attack (yes, technically this wasn't one, but the effect is the same) is very, very small. You're more likely to get hit by lightning or slip and break your neck while under the shower, but we don't stop going outside or taking showers (I hope ). Best thing to do is just to live your life normally and not live in fear.

If you're that worried, pack heat so you can shoot back(perhaps this poses a legal problem there...).  It's not a particularly likely outcome though, you have much higher odds of drowning in your bathtub.

Simple logic.

Alas, I'm much too lazy for the flame war this subject is likely to create, so I'll skip explaining it and do something productive instead, sparing the forum pages of misinformation and a thread lock.

Edit: GG, beaten to the punch.  It's what I get for thinking better of it after I'd already typed it out...

Thankyou for that.

Thoumsin, my condolences.... politics/economics/etc. are all just misdirection/diversion/camouflage for sick individuals who want to hurt others.

Another sad day caused by yet another lunatic.

US soldiers murder more people in "wars" every day - european countries do that too. Where's the outrage? We are devastated when we suffer the same violence we have no problems visiting on others. If anything, we should learn humility from something like this.

Probably 'wise' to disassociate corelation between soldiers at war and what happened in Belgium.

If for no other reason than to avoid the inevitable [and justified] flaming which will result in site membership adjustments.

You're right, it was a stupid post.

Well, i am a ex from the Royal Navy... have make one golf war, one Somalia war, two Yougoslavia war... in 9 year of service, i have only kill one time, it was in Somalia when a men was trying to hurt a kid after having kill the kid's mother with a machete... during the golf war, we were escorting our ship who was removing sea mines... during the two Yougoslavia war, we was boarding any ship for check the cargo, it was about a embargo on weapons/fuel/ammunition...

Recently, Belgium have provide air support in Lybia, when people have choice to revolt and fight for their freedom...

The thing that i am the more proud is our army being members of the B-FAST team ( http://b-fast.diplomatie.be/node/4 )... army participation go from bridge building, setup camp for refugies, build school/hospital, use c-130 for drop food in place that truck cannot reach, etc...

Point is that any modern army save more live that they kill...

Well, there is only a few way to be able own weapons in Belgium...

First, you can have the collector status... problem is that your weapons need to remain home...

Second, you have the sport shooter... weapons can only be outside your home when you go the the shooting place... weapons in the back of your car, ammunition at the front...

Third, very difficult to obtain, you can have a "port d'armes"... mainly issued for security service people and other similar job...

Anyway, the solution is not being able to shoot back in a similar case... need to find a way that similar case never happen again...

If i believe in statistic, the more dangerous place is called a "bed"... it is where the majority of people die...

About odds, try to explain this to the family of the 17yo and 15yo kid or to the family of the 17 month baby... i am over 40's and i have already enjoy plenty of the life... these young victim was only to the beginning of their live...

Thoumsin....no, it's while playing Golf....the world's most dangerous 'sport' ...;)

[actually it's bed ...but I like to stir golfers]...;)

What about mothers and doctors who Murder babies every day and call it Abortion!!!

I'm actually pro-choice, i just thought that would be another ridiculous statement to add to this thread.  Really people, calling what soldiers do murder, or bringing right wing vs left wing bullshit into this topic?  Get your priorities straight and realize not every fucking thing that happens in this world is about your nonsensical political views.

I'm very sorry to hear about this tragedy.  4 people died.  Two young men, an elderly lady, and a baby.  That's what matters.  

5 people died... have found a other victim at a other place...

Well, the guy was not a angel and some responsability to what have happen is due to our law/jail system...

Before begin his adult life, Amrami was already taken a few time for thief, prohibited weapons and assault...

As for his adult life :

- thief : receive two year jail with suspended sentence

- rape : receive two year with 3/4 suspended sentence

- several little drugs related fact : receive 150 hours of community service... none of them made...

- 2007 : http://www.rtl.be/videos/video/375168.aspx ... find 23 illegal weapons but have no condemnation... go to jail for the drugs plantation...

Go out of jail in 2010 due to a psy report who say that he is not a danger for the society... Amrani is free with condition, one of them being the obligation to follow a psy therapie...

Last psy control have happen in October 2011 and the expert have found Amrani normal... well, Amrani have never tell the psy that he have fall back to his old hobby who is collecting war weapons... Do the psy have never thing that Amrani was not saying all the truth to him?

The day of the rampage, Amrani was invited to the police at 14h00 for a new case who was sexual related...

So, the guy have a long list of thing in his history, justice was always easy with him... no jail time for thief, no jail time for illegal weapons, 6 month for rape, and a real jail time for drugs after the third arrest but free due to a psy report who don't find him dangerous... More badly, Police have instruction of "stalking" the less is possible  prisonner released with condition !!!

In Belgium, police and justice make their job but the jail are full... recently, we have hire place in some jail of Netherland !!! People who are condem to less that 2 year don't make their time... almost all these with more that 2 year are released before the end of their time... Jail are a responsability of the goverment... most of our jail are so old that people escape easily... due to lack of money invested, there is not enough room for all criminal...

Curious to know how feel today the psy who have allow the early release of Amrani by saying that he was not a danger for the society !!!

A other thing, one of his liberation condition was a fixed income... most people will thing that fixed income mean a job... but for his release, a gov unemployment benefits was good as fixed income !!!

Well, the problem is that people have difficult to grasp that human can become mad without any reason... it is more easy to use religion, politic, skin color, nationality, and other thing as reason why somebody kill other... same if it is unrelated... if somebody is responsible in these case, it is the psy who have allow the guy out of jail and our gov who free criminal to much early due to the lack of jail place...

The last sentence in your post would have sufficed...