Ok, let's try this religious style, the Lula method for mass confusion, hahaha.

If god is real quit harping on it an prove it. Besides you have no ability (seemingly) to tell if your visitations were from god or satan because you would be clueless … was that not his proposed purpose. First satan corrupted himself and many others … second satan corrupt the second of god’s creation (Adam) at a time when life was perfect and worry free so unlike today.  But of course, you would just know wouldn’t you?

I won't find anything out ... because I will be dead, geese. I have seen a cat or two but I haven't seen your chosen deity ... so am I supposed to believe everything you do because we both agree that cats really exist, get real. Until you have a one-on-one with the man himself and he updates your memory banks … you don’t know squat about god, just what you have been told. (see above comment)

Just so!!! My guess is that the only thing here that could possible sadden a staunch believer such as yourself, is your inability to acquire another convert to your madness. Nothing wrong with being mad mind you, I just do not wish to play any more theological games which just denigrate the beauty and grandeur of the universe and the life within it.

You have no idea whatsoever where, how, why  or through what medium I became convinced ... but you don't care, you are just going to tell me that too. I have left some clues along the way but they apparently were over your head so what's a girl supposed to do ... besides laugh.

By god I think you got it at last! And it is called evolution.

You will never get it I suppose. There are no gods and thus no creator, but still I would like some idea of our past … and I go to science for real explanations. It is either that or I could pull it all out of my arse like many mystical proponents prefer to do.  Brain power and religion are at odds … all you have to do is suck it all up and believe it to your core and have a good memory … what is proof in the face of such utter nonsense.

Not on my to-do list. Unlike religions that can do nothing but revisit the ancient past for their ‘expertise’, I prefer to look ahead and what I see is difficulties for monotheism because the better the sciences get, the smaller the space for god gets … and it is not going to stop.

You haven’t a clue what could occur naturally because you seem to be as scientifically void concerning microbiology as you are of the evolutionary process but sorry … ignorance is no longer a valid argument unless you combine it with stupidity, not with the internet and a drop or two of curiosity.

Where is the parody here? 

Where is the biblical humor here?

This is an attack that centers on the Book of Genesis, a stupendous story of God and His Divine order of Creation, of the origin of the heavens and earth, the universe, as well as plant, animal and human kind. It stands today like an intellectual and moral Rock of Gibraltar, despite intense attempts such as this one of yours to undermine it with ridiculous criticism and by scoffing at it.  

......................................................

 

You are the one who has gone astray. The mission of Genesis, of Christianity and of the Church is to teach man spiritual things not to determine geological, biological or astrological things; that is for scientists to discover. Catholics are free to speculate on Biblical chronology as to age, as no definitive pronouncements as to a doctrine of Creation has been made ....yet. 

The things that the Church insists upon, which is found in the book of Genesis is that God made the heavens, Earth and the universe, that God made man and that He endowed him with the power of working out his own eternal destiny. 

.......................................

The Church is the patron of science, since the more knowledge man has of nature, the more power of God becomes evident. That's what both Jythier and I have been trying to tell you. 

To know the laws of nature, and to apply the knowledge gathered has been the work of the Church's great universities and hospitals. I'll list a few Catholic scientists...Roger Bacon founder of inductive method. Schwann, founder of cell theory. Linnaeus, founder of modern biology. Lavoiser, founder of modern chemistry. Johannes Muller, founder of modern physiology. Volta in electricity. Mendel in biology, laws of heredity. Pasteur in physio-chemistry. 

Awe, you guys just make this too easy which is always the result when reality meats magic. Lula, the truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter at what I think, believe or aspire to ... unless I unabashedly capitulate to your church, not your god, YOUR church??? I don’t believe anything on faith alone, but I do have a well-founded respect for expertise, human intelligence actually. 

I am convinced that Mr. Hershel was quite knowledgeable and definitely a competent scientist, unfortunately we have more than a hundred and fifty years of additional knowledge that he didn’t have. If you wish to use such people as ‘straw men’, then consider this: “Herschel himself thought catastrophic extinction and renewal "an inadequate conception of the Creator", and by analogy with other intermediate causes "the origination of fresh species, could it ever come under our cognizance, would be found to be a natural in contradistinction to a miraculous process" And he was correct by the way. Why are you compelled to misrepresent the things when you are supposed to be preaching the truth?

Ok then, I guess it is one at a time then, for at least as long as I am amused.

“Electricity is the science, engineering, technology and physical phenomena associated with the presence and flow of electric charges. Electricity gives a wide variety of well-known electrical effects, such as lightning, static electricity, electromagnetic induction and the flow of electrical current in an electrical wire. In addition, electricity permits the creation and reception of electromagnetic radiation such as radio waves.”

What is Electricity?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci8W1ot9I5A

Personally, I was taught 'electron flow' as opposed to 'hole flow' which I later learned after years of experience that it didn't really matter. You just had to stick with whatever theory you started out with and the conclusions would be the same.

(Only in your dreams) I have tried to be gentle before, but you are clueless of modern evolutionary theory … and Darwin is so way in the past ... have I mentioned before that we have more than a hundred and fifty years of fine tuning ourselves and we now know a thing or two (+) that Darwin could only have dreamed of while on LSD. Gravity and electricity are not mysterious to anyone with a public library card unless you just want to plead ignorance … for which there is no excuse, today. Do you have any idea of what Hubble offers concerning the universe and knowledge about it???

 

Why is microbiology relevant to humans coming from sludge?

While it would certainly make this conversation a lot more worth having, I'm not going to ask you to explain why you, personally, moved from Catholicism to Atheism.  It's a very personal question and I don't know you very well.  I think it would be good for you to share, but I won't ask you to.

Please Re-read #14, 17, 23, this time for clarity.....and then tell me exactly how I misrepresented anything about Mr. Hershel. 

.........................

lula #14

In # 17, You highlighted the following:

And so in #23 I responded: 

To which you accusingly reply: 

Again, how did I misrepresent or lie anything about Mr. Hershel?

 The questioning child and the atheist father---

"What's gravity, Papa?"

"It's a law of nature."

"Where does the law come from Papa?"

"Don't ask so many questions."  The atheist has no answer. 

.............................................................................................

 

For the atheist is not gravitation, the law of gravity, a "mystery of mysteries"?

 

 Then answer, you believe in gravity, then where did the law of gravity come from?

Then answer,  where did the law of gravity come from? 

 

You keep saying the law of gravity, Lula, but I think the question you want to ask is, "Why is mass attracted to other mass?"  If the only answer you have it, "Gravity", then you can ask, "Who made gravity?"

Cooler question though - if mass is attracted to other mass, why is the universe expanding?

The terminology and the emphasis are always misguided whenever someone believes that they are somehow empowered with only factual knowledge (but are not even open to proof) and leads nowhere. I don’t know if there was some kind of sludge in our lineage, but this is already taking on biblical comparisons (from the dirt/water etc.) as if we have to go about this with miracles in mind. Your problem with evolution is that it takes thousands of years to accomplish small changes and billions of years for things more drastic. What could be simpler … you just declare the earth to be a few thousand years old (without a drop of evidence) and presto, evolution is out of the religious picture and it doesn’t even have to be contended with … it is just out so never mind those pesky facts science tries to slip into the discussion. Your idea of earthly things is off by a factor of ~94’000 times … and that is not a trivial error. Considering the age of the universe it becomes even more preposterous at ~270,000 times in error. We evolved from ape LIKE creatures which evolved from other creatures etc. etc. for billions of years none of which you accept just because you have a first century ‘book’ that discusses the first century world views and their fantasies.

This is a problem and I don't think many Christians are even aware of it. You folks spend an inordinate amount of time telling scientists and everyone else I suppose all about their motivations, their ‘real’ intentions’ and well there everything.  I made the mistake of treating all Christians as a unit (then I met Lula?) simply because they all use the same ONE book to placate their beliefs. It was no concern to me how divided Christians were (didn’t know there were over a thousand ‘sects’ though) … the same BOOK. You see, when I pick up a book with actual usable information say in math, physics, thermodynamics, plate tectonics or evolution to name a few, I don’t try and pick out the parts I like and the hell with the rest. My understanding or acceptance has nothing to do with the reality of things so I study it until I am comfortable with the principles and can safely add it to my world view.

There just isn’t any way to convince creationists that there is a real world out there, one with real things happening all the time in the present as they have all throughout our history. Real things we can sink our teeth in. I have related the reasons behind my disillusionment of monotheism in the past but that proved little more than a distraction and helped nothing. It just provided more fodder for the Christians to attack anew … after all, who was I to disagree with ‘the Church minions’ who represent god himself (in their small minds) which cannot be disagreed with or argued against period. It just doesn’t take long in this environment to realize that the fabled ‘free will’ option is only available to Christians (not Muslims or Jews or atheists) who of course have to be made to believe as the Church dictates or they too will have their free will revoked just like the rest of us. I will see if I can find some of those instances but don’t hold your breath because I will probably forget. The very concept of free will flies in the face of any dogmatic belief system because the only choices give are wholehearted capitulation or death and then hell, always the proverbial hell. I highly recommend that everyone should at least read the bible without skipping about, cover to cover (especially Christians) because that was the turning point for me and it opened my eyes just enough to allow reality to creep in. You see this should prevent picking and choosing of which particular godly words you like and dismissing the ones you don’t.

So you want me to infringe on your privacy?  Please, relate or link me to where you related why you're an atheist.  Reading the Bible cover to cover doesn't really cover it, see, because that's far too general.  For example, I have read all of it and didn't come to the same conclusion as you, so I'm interested in where you are drawing that conclusion from. 

Why do you think I'm missing the real world?  Why do you assume that I'm going to think you can't disagree with fallible men?  Why do you insist we're attacking, when perhaps we're just trying to support you into the truth? 

Let's prove God exists now.  Do you know what a sociopath is?

Let's take this one step further.  What is it that a sociopath lacks?  A conscience.  They don't care about what happens to other people from their actions.  But take a step back and ask another question.  Why is that wrong? 

Let's take it one step further.  Perhaps your answer is 'it's not wrong'.  If so, no reason to continue.  You are a sociopath yourself.  If not, you know that it is wrong.  Perhaps your answer is it's wrong because it hurts other people, so therefore it's wrong.

Why is it wrong to hurt other people?

Is there a standard of behavior that most if not all people sort of intrinsically know about?

If so, then what made it so?

Now, take it one step further.  If we all know about this standard of behavior, and we all try to follow it, and try not to hurt our fellow human beings... why the heck is the world full of people who hurt each other and do wrong all the time?  If that's the way people just ARE, why do we have these notions of right and wrong that we can't even live up to?

Not going to play with you like this but I will answer this again for you to disbelieve. Man invented the law of gravity just because rabbits and dogs refused to do it (or maybe they didn't GAS either). I don't care what you think about electricity either but even you should be smart enough to stay away from it and how to use it constructively. Do you have any intricate understanding of how an automobile works; my guess is that you don't? But the lack of knowledge doesn't seem to be important or necessary for you to take advantage of your car. How about we subject the auto to an atomic level review just so we can drop down to the subatomic level and ask what they are made of ... just so we can prove humanity is injudicious and that everything is all about god because … people are just too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time without celestial guidance.

Obviously a Google search is too much trouble and just as obviously you don't understand or believe in the big bang theory so there is no point trying in making something up because reality is unimportant to you. What good would another dismissible ridiculously ill-informed human ‘opinion’ do when reason is rejected by the very question itself.

Personally I like this question better: If your god created the universe and everything in it in its present form, why is the universe expanding at all? It just seems counterproductive for the end when all the ‘lights’ in the sky fall (a lot further) to the earth.

Most of those lights in the sky are actually galaxies many of which are immensely larger than our own. There are stars lights in the sky (like VY Canis Majoris) which is a billion times larger than our small light which itself is a million times the size of the earth. That makes this sky light a million billion times the size of the earth.

Star Sizes Comparison   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHiHFXtE0js

Slingshot.  Pulling them back and then... pow!  Fall to the earth.  Celestial slingshot.

Don't you feel silly now?

This is why you cannot be taken seriously. And what bible passages pray tell did this 'slingshot theory’ spring from? All is honky dory as long as reality can be ignored and “god did it” is used exclusively without any explanation at all ... no matter what has to be swept under the rug. If this is your idea of a discussion, well it sure isn't mine.

Not in the least ... but you should. The problem with debating a Creationist (any theologian) is that they only have one set of guidelines that everyone; believer, misbeliever and nonbeliever alike have to accept. To make things worse, then they pretend that every other issue has been resolved in god’s favor which is just gobbledygook, none have been proven godly. But it allows them to smugly sit in judgment of everyone else and pretend there is only this one last thing to discredit. Religious folk (unless patting themselves on the back) don’t try to prove anything. If they could, well they have had a couple thousand years to try and have failed at every turn. So as opposed to making their own case (god forbid) they just trash whatever they perceive as a threat (which is everything unbiblical) as if it is immaterial just because they say so. Doesn’t this shallow attitude cut off any reasonable discussion at the knees before it even starts? And when every ploy fails, they put the big guns away … and just start making things up on their own … not the life I want to live.

Sorry about that.  

Very odd that the pictures come in when JU is opened with Yahoo, but not with Google.  

Anyway, the point ...I do have a religious funny bone. 

 

Why, pray tell, should you take that seriously, when it was so obviously a joke?  The fact that you didn't catch that only proves that you are assuming not only that you are absolutely right about everything, but also that I'm completely stupid.  I was ready to try and speak with you about why God must exist but you didn't bother answering any of my questions.  So you don't want to go down the path to enlightenment, because you have no defense on that path.  Makes sense.  Unfortunately, your assumption are incorrect.  I'm not stupid.  I'm very intelligent and I'm a critical thinker, especially about the things of God.  I don't take them directly from the pulpit without vetting them through what I know of the Bible first.  I don't take YouTube videos of preachers as gospel, either.  And while you seem to want to mock my beliefs, I at least realize that you think there's some basis to yours, though when I ask about the holes in it you go silent about it, and instead attack my beliefs instead of examining your own.  Let me assure you, I examine my own beliefs thoroughly when they are attacked by those such as you.  Does my belief not make sense?  I look at it, I examine it, and I don't find that you have made any actual arguments, but silly jokes and slander and stating that I don't know what an atheist or evolution is.  Really?  And then you post numerous videos which I can't watch which supposedly make your point.  You accuse me of the things you do - blindly following what you've seen on YouTube, yet you refuse to get on an intellectual ground with me - you just say, "Nope, you're wrong, you can't prove God exists."  Then, when I try to show you that you have no grounds on which to say he doesn't, yet there are plenty of grounds to say he does, you won't respond.

So that's the end of it, yet again.  Maybe this time I really won't be back, but I'm sure you'll end up saying something equally ludicrous yet again and I'll come out to defend my God again.  Of course, you attack Christians, but you never actually attack our God, because you have no clue who He is or what He does.  You say, 'Meet him and I'll believe you!'  Paul met him, had a whole book written about it, wrote letters about it, and you didn't believe him.  Why would you believe me?  You're being dishonest again.

Not going to play like this? Aw...but you wrote the OP waging war against Genesis and started the game (of discussion). Isn't the goal to use science and "enlightened knowledge" to prove that true religion is wrong and the Holy Bible is a "strange fantasy"?

We are at the familiar crossroads again.  Man invented the law of gravity is quite a materialistic explanation.

Because science was born as the daughter of theology and becasue science and knowledge in general will always be only a part of the greater knowledge of God, we have the answer to the child's question of the law of gravity.  

Everything in nature is the handiwork of the Creator. When we recognize a law in the universe, we do not invent it. It was there before men set foot on earth becasue God wisely placed it there. We should be humble students of nature, the created work, but the "enlightened" atheistic science establishment is short-sighted, and wants to separate itself from God, and won't recognize the Teacher, the Creator. They want to believe that we never had a Teacher or Creator at all. And so they wage war against true religion and drive out God.

 

 

 

Here is how science, Geology, works with true religion and the Holy Bible....

Let's revisit some of your inquiring questions then: The religious way one silliness after another, geese.

Humans didn't come from sludge and microbiology is rather a newer field of study ... but it is only interested in biology on very small microscopic scale, that couldn't be of help to support biblical myths ... but it has a lot to say about evolution.

Then stop not asking.

Is it that difficult to stop not asking? Find them yourself because this is the last time I am going to baby you like this.

I see just fine but you are the only christian I know who views the word of god as too general and needs just the right people to tell us all what it really says, yea right.

The book is chockfull of errors, gross inaccuracies and impossible exaggerations. It was compiled from who knows who's fables by who knows who and then translated by who knows who for who knows how long and the gospels were Mathew, Mark, Luke and John whoever they were (not the writers of course) and the bible, the true word of god was born of man who called it a bible … and that is the paper trail of the word of god you see as flawless, I just see it flawed, period.

Lets not and just say we did ... this is your burden of proof not mine because I don't believe it and therefore I don't care. It is impossible for me to hate, dislike, question, show interest in or respect something I don't believe in, not a problem for you I see.

I don't care about sociopaths other than to keep them at bay but they aren't involved with biblical truths so are not germane to the topic, but I think there are many books that will help you with this problem if it persists.    # 35 is just more superfluous nonsense.

Perhaps not, just a guess because you haven't actually told me ... yet. The rest is just trying to establish biblical morality which I find appalling. Now you just ask me to explain the moral code of humanity of which I don't care to take the time. Human morality is innate in all of us; religious folk just need celestial permission to comprehend morality is all.

I don't have any problems differencing  good from bad or right from wrong. The rest (6,999,999,999) you will have to ask yourself but again it seems Christians need to be told these difficult to comprehend things.    #39 is just silly as usual.

All I did was ask your source because I find just about everything you have said so far a joke so how was I to know this was a REAL one and not another imaginary one??? That’s one of the problems with mysticism ... you are only limited by your imagination ... no reality is required or desired. It is absolutely impossible to be a critical thinker and believe the bible to be the faultless word of some god. No critical thinker would ever say something stupid like "evolution doesn't work period".  

When you ask me about evolution a subject I do enjoy, you are not really asking me anything. You are telling me it is FUBAR by asking ridiculous nonsensical questions because you know so little actual theory (if any?) so you don't know how to even ask meaningful questions. It is not my job to teach you what evolution is. You have as much access to information as I do and I have no problem finding it. You want me to prove your made up god doesn't exist when you cannot prove he does ... first.

Lula #42, please fix your pictures or remove them.

This helps make my point concerning the OP topic ....Origins. 

The Special Creation view accepts, on the basis of Faith in the revealed God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that Almighty God created gravity and electricity and the laws that govern them for man's good and use. Also, that Almighty God created Man and man used what God gave him and made the automobile. 

We humbly praise God for everything we have been given. 

The atheistic Evolution view accepts, on the basis of faith in fallible man, that nothing exploded into something and evolved into the universe, all laws, and all that's in it, including plant animal and human life. 

They hold themselves up high and say look at how smart we are.

They understand that the automobile requires thought, intelligence and careful workmanship, but everything else around us in nature, is declared to be the result of accidental mutational mishaps, random chance, and lots of time called "stellar and biological evolution"!

 

 

  

 

Then again, here you go using terminology and religious bias as if they were anything but insults which is why you guys do it, shucks. Whatever “accidental mutational mishaps” is or has to do with everything concerning evolutionary theory (successes anyway) is beyond me but mishaps occur all the time even today but. I like this one though, “random chance” yep that is evolution religious style, and sure it is important but the main driver in forward looking evolution, try to be realistic. You have the ‘lots of time’ right but you have no grasp of it at all because five thousand years is hardly a drop in the bucket so you just take the bucket away and therefore all of evolution too. Personally I call 13.7 billion years ~ infinity because it is all of our time (to date). As far as I am concerned, 4.7 billion years constitutes ‘enough time’ for evolutionary processes to succeed, at least on earth. Darwin called it ‘natural selection’ which is a key component. Biologists agree that descent with modification is one of the most reliably established facts in science, but they are just scientists. Discoveries in evolutionary biology have made a significant impact not just within the traditional branches of biology, but also in other academic disciplines (e.g., anthropology and psychology) and on society at large. Then in the 1900’s, genetics was applied to evolutionary theory and we started getting many answers that previously eluded us (beyond our technology at the time). There are numerous books written by the scientific intellectuals who deal with one aspect or another of the evolutionary process. So you see, this kind of nonsense (but everything else around us in nature, is declared to be the result of accidental mutational mishaps, random chance, and lots of time called "stellar and biological) is nothing but a meaningless insult because it is wrong. This clip was instrumental in the Dover trial where ID (repackaged creationism) got thrown out on its arse (as creationism has) for obvious reasons. Pay attention to chromosomes 2 and 13 and the placement of the telomeres and centromeres; this doesn’t comply biblically. Ken Miller is a practicing Catholic scientist and had no problem proving human evolution.

How To Shut Up Pesky Creationists    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdByuGCKCG4

PS - The whole point of the car was to demonstrate that we don't need to understand the ‘microverse’ on every level as long as we can safely use what we know enabling us to delve deeper into life’s mysteries.

Lula

GFTESS: 

GFTESS:

RE: Your Reply #48.  Thanks for "clueing" me in! 

So, you've placed your faith in the gods of Scientism and have gulped down their kool-aid.  I'm convinced you hold Stellar and Darwin Evolution theory sacrosanct. 

 

 

Gee, your appreciation of Darwin is one time up   and another time down.....which one is it? 

You'll see that "random chance" comes from Darwin himself. 

Stephen A. Foglein explains it well in his book, The Apple of Knowledge: An inquiry about God and Science.

Is evolution a truth or a lie? It's both. Darwianian and Stellar Evolution are lies embedded in truth. It's a most dangerous mixture invented by the father of lies..the archenemy of Almighty God. The word "evolution" itself is confusing. It's meanings include, first of all, all processes unfolding in time, but they also include genetic progress of development by which the Evolutionist means that all process will result in time in a better, higher, condition than when it started. This is contrary to the truth. 

For example, "Natural selection" is true and is evolution in the first sense of its meaning but not in the latter.

The word "evolution" has become identified with Darwin's Theory who used it to explain the origin of animal species. He said that all life forms on earth are the result of a long development in time by chance, by natural selection, and by survival of the fittest in a constant battle for survival. By excluding God from creation, he created a dogma for Atheism. Darwinism, or biological Evolution theory as it is now called, is mixing truth and lies...that nature, including man, was created not by God but by random chance.  

 

 

 

 

Oh ya, evolutionary biology has made an impact on psychology all right...and it isn't good. 

Unfortunately, psychology is the same mixture of truth and lies as is Darwinism or evolutionary biology as you call it.  While Darwin provided the new world religion of Atheism with its dogma that nature, including man, was not created by God but by random chance over time, Freud formulated another dogma of Atheism...that there is no such thing as a soul. He said that the concept of a soul is only the personificaton of dreams, blah, blah, blah. Since there is no soul, then man is only another animal, just as Darwin taught.  Man can be studied and manipulated just as animals can.  

Psychology set out about one hundred years ago with a noble goal...to understand the human mind and find a cure for mental illness and helping out those suffering with insanity.  But now psychology is far from its original goal. It's been in the hands of atheists like Freud for a while and has become a tool against God.