I take it you have never played fall from heaven.

There are a lot of competitive multiplayer games out there. Balance needs to be reflected in every part of their design. We don't have that restriction, so let's have some fun with it. I'd much rather you tell a story about that awesome champion you had in one game because you got great traits and then loaded him up with so,e cool magical items you were lucky to find then have you noodling between decisions that all end up basically the same.

Let's let monsters pour out of the shadow gate, cast spells that destroy cities and have heroes that can turn the tide of battle.

There was a bug a player reported for war of magic. A Dawn Dragon attacked him on turn 14. It was because he was playing a custom map with the dragon placed on it. But I liked the responses from the other players, they were envious. They wanted to see crazy things like that. I can't promise that you are going to be attacked on turn 14 by a dragon, but crazy things will happen.

Brad's Christmas AI build killed my sov and Janusk on turn 7 - being eaten by a grizzly bear was painful but fun!

I'd vote for a trait tree, with some being pre-reqs for others.  I'd also vote for different heroes being pemitted / permanently locked-out-of groups of traits.  "Random" might sound nice, but it it is the same random selection for everyone, we can just eventually get the same ones for every hero -- if 1st 2nd choice aren't offered this time, pick our normal #3 choice and wait for next time, etc.

The proposed system is a lot like AoW-SM, which I didn't like much, mostly because it seemed there was only one best way to buff a hero, not matter what type he was supposed to be.  Bulk up resistance, melee attack & defense, and equip with a sword of double-strike, life-stealing & either +1 attack or first strike.  Even supposed spellcasters worked out better that way.  Ranger with supposedly good ranged attack?  Forget that and make him a melee fighter first.  Then buy him a cannon later.  Avoiding some similar trap in FE will take some planning.

Some of the best things in MOM involved hero handing.

1:  Heroes had different specialties from the start.  Magic / archer / melee, etc.

2:  Some heroes were just plain much better than others, mostly because they had special traits like armor piercing, or one of the traits that gave them extra points of one stat every time they leveled-up.  There were a bunch of these, for attack / defence / hit-points / magic-power, etc.  This tied closely with price-to-hire and special spells to summon them.  By contrast in Elemental I don't see much correlation between how powerful a hero is vs how much it costs to recruit him, and all the important differences are there in level 1.  Either you have Savage-Strike or you don't.

Those always-plus-1-of-something traits would probably be easy to do in the proposed FE system.  Please.

Then you can toss in a little extra variety that MOM didn't have.  Don't just give these super-valuable traits to high-priced heroes with good starting stats.  Toss on one or two low-priced dudes with those traits but otherwise crummy starting stats.  Then maybe toss in some slow-learner dead-end types with high starting stats but not much else going for them.

This thread has given me hope for FE. Can't wait to see the beta.

I would VERY much like for there to be hero "types" built into these trait trees as well. "Archer-type" heroes who more readily generate traits related to ranged combat, "champion-type" heroes who have greater likelihood of generating unit support type traits.

By no means have them totally restrictive, but several different trait groups with heroes who are predisposed to generating traits from certain groups with a higher likelihood.

The trait/level concept was what I liked most in Age of Wonders, really looking forward to seeing it in Elemental.

That's because it is a good idea. While I don't know if it will be good as a replacement to the current leveling system, it is definitely a good addition all around. What I would like to see is some kind of dynamic system to define rarity. My largest concern with respect to static probabilities is what one might call the "getting screwed by randomness factor." For instance, let's say that you have some champion we will call Achilles. Achilles is your standard level 4 sword/shield warrior, who has a strength trait, a dexterity trait, and a dodge trait. Now, Achilles levels again, and his choices are intelligence, some kind of production, some kind of ranged bonus, etc. All the choices for Achilles are interesting, but none really reflect what Achilles is about. AoW:SM used a similar random selection system for researching magic spells, but it was not hard for one faction to gain a huge advantage over another simply because one got a better selection of complimentary spells. From a mod perspective, by making rarities dynamic, would not only allow mod maker to redefine the rarity of various traits, but could create more robust mods dealing with unit leveling.

Yay perk....I mean traits!

Yay, that was my first thought as well... 

AoW:SM and all other TBS from the 1990-2000's are pretty good places to steal get ideas from. I'm glad Derek seems to think the same.

Very pleased to see that they will be adopting a more AOW:SM system for FE.

I was really hoping for this and it makes me even more excited about FE.

Let's let monsters pour out of the shadow gate, cast spells that destroy cities and have heroes that can turn the tide of battle.

 

That quote makes me happy as well. Having bad ass monsters like that will make victory all the sweeter in the end.

You'll really feel like you've accomplished something heroic. ^^

I can also imagine that cooperating with the other factions will be all the more crucial.

You'll be battling nature and the environment as much as you will the other factions.

Seems cool!   Looking forward to it.

Cape: the hero looks dashing and it provides a 25% bonus to charisma and leadership (however there is a small chance that the hero dies when affected by particular combinations of Air spells)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68ndaZSKa8

other traits plural? - that would be good (and do something similar for tech as well....)

Can you have mutually exclusive traits or technologies (something that was not possible in WoM)?

Best regards,
Steven.

Currently traits can require techs, other traits or a race.  Our design doesn't call for blocking traits, though we may be implementing mutually exclusive mechanics in other areas (not for our design, but for modders).

lets hope there will be alot of different traits

Okay, open the contest. I've got a trait ready, for me its really far into the 17th of march!

I updated the first post with a lot of new information about traits.  I completely forgot about all the conditional trait information when I wrote up my post yesterday.

Very Awesome on the conditional! I was wondering if it is possible to have a conditional which is vsSpecificFaction. It would be very cool if one could create a champion that has a particular dislike of a one faction or another. For instance, I might have a fallen champion that gets a bonus when attacking Altarians. Another nice condition might be onHit. Thus, you could have a whole set of traits which do some kind of retaliation effect. A good example would be an ability like "Flame Shield" where in an attacker would take damage when for attacking a unit with the trait.

I have a ton of traits I'd like to see implemented.  I can only submit one?

It was hard to shave this down to 5,000 characters. I had to remove apostrophes, spaces after periods, and the spaces between paragraphs. I built on the lore of the quest entry I made previously. Here's my entry in an easier to read format:

-----

Blooded

The original opening of the Gates were performed prior to the entrapment of magic within the Elemental Shards,and without a way to focus their energies required a great deal of power.To crack the viel between worlds,the gate had to be stained with blood in dark rituals.Luckily,there was never any shortage in prisoners.What were the lives of mortal beings if not resources to be used by their masters?So the Great Gate was built,and blood flowed across the runes carved into its surface.

But not all the prisoners sat idle in their chains,waiting to be expunged from the world to contribute to the darkness encroaching upon it.

Kelytia,warrior priestess of the once great eastern kingdom of Malaya,bided her time in captivity.Rumors passed down from prisoner to prisoner of what awaited them at the end of the line.Thousands of lives had been given to the cracking of the viel,and thousands more would be needed.The blood flowed thicker than that of any battlefield for the Dread Lords purpose.

Kelytia had been a leader of her people,carrying them through battle after battle until her forces,whittled to the point of almost nothing,were finally captured by the beasts loyal to the Titans.

So she planned for one last battle.One last push for the glory of her kingdom,and to push darkness from the world one last time.

Prisoners were processed in the order they were taken,and thus the Malayan warriors were bound together and brought as one amongst the other prisoners for their day at the alter.

The sacrificial priests at the alters surrounding the Gate wore robes so black and stained with blood that light seemed to shy away from them.Their purpose so dark,the energies of Death itself flowed through them,their eyes glowing crimson under their hoods as groups of soldiers escorted prisoner after prisoner to the alters to be gutted with wicked runed hooks.

Then came Kelytias turn,and those of her warriors.Experts of hand to hand,the moment the shackles fell from the last one the set upon their foes like whirlwinds,taking the spears from the first soldiers they took down,and wielding these spears took down even more.The priests at the alter began chanting and casting dark magics,sucking the life force from any prisoners still in line not strong willed enough to resist,and blasting these forces at Kelytia and the other Malayans,but to no avail.They took each blow,each mark against their life forces,as if they were nothing.They had accepted the certainty of their deaths and made peace with their gods,and nothing would stop them in their purpose.As each Malayan fell,the remainder seemed to grow more focused,knowing their instant of finalization grew closer.

One by one,soldier and priest and Malayan warrior were cut down,their blood flowing around the alter and mixing with that of the prisoners.Then something unexpected happened.

The prisoners blood,so wrought with a sense of fear and resignation and hopelessness,was now mixed with the blood of those that ended them.Their final resting place,as dark as it seemed,was made darker.The Gate activated,the veil cracked,but it wasnt the viel between the demonic plains and the world of Elemental that broke open and spilled forth - It was the land of the dead,the land of those whose blood had been desecrated.

A host of the slaughtered prisoners stepped forth,glowing violet in the darkness of the citadel containing the Great Gate.As Kelytia,last of the Malayan warriors lay dying,she saw this forth flow into the room,swirling amongst priest,soldier,and prisoner alike.

Shackles burst into ash amonst the prisoners;they were freed,and quickly moved to take weapons from the dead soldiers.Priests,whos powers in Death had no effect on those who had already crossed the viel,were defenseless under the assault.The entire massive citadel was wiped clean of the Dread Lords stain on the world,and as suddenly as it began,the gate deactivated.The spirits of the dead vanished,dispersed into the world,and the prisoners,along with the mortally wounded Kelytia,escaped.

Kelytia was able to survive until they made it back to the Malayan capital,still untouched by the war,and though infection and fever took their toll,it seemed she could not die.She had been bathed in the light of the Dead,and given their blessing.Until it was her time,she would not be taken.The trait came to be known as being "Blooded",blessed by the Dead,and each of the escaped prisoners retained it.Wounds that would normally kill even the strongest seemed to glance off them like they were nothing,and they became a curse to the Dread Lords work.Even now it is said that there are Blooded among the survivors of the Cataclysm,great men and women who cannot be taken by even the strongest blow,until their strength has been whittled away entirely.

• Blooded:No single blow can kill the Blooded.Blows that take more than the remaining HP drop them to 1 HP,allowing for healing.Trait only activates once per battle.Cannot survive a second blow beyond their HP reserves.

This is so awesome Kael, I am now very excited about Fallen Enchantress.  If I had a womb, I would let you make a baby in it.

This is encouraging; great work on the redesign.  As a minor point, I'd suggest that the selection on level up not include specific attributes (ie, Charisma).  Instead, just have a selection (that's always available on level up) to "attributes", and give us 3 points to distribute to attributes as we've done up until now.  One of the bad things on AOW was that there times when leveling a hero resulted in 3 choices that were equally useless to the hero.  I'd like to have at least a default position that makes the hero stronger/faster/more intelligent, if luck doesn't present us with any good traits for that level up.

Also, I've never really gotten a hero above level 8 in EWOM; are we thinking of letting the experience point progression drop a little bit, to allow for more traits to be selected?