I love almost all of these changes, especially the the fact that more cities will lower prestige. I'll try hard to keep an open mind about the food/housing changes. I'm very excited to see how the game develops.

Wow 1.3 sounds awesome.

Tactical AI changes+Strategic AI changes

Nice

No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)

Seems like this will take alot of work, especially in regards to balance. However it will make armies seem much larger and help differeniate heroes.  A very nice change, and balance needs work anyway.

No requirement for buildings to build a unit (buidings will enhance units but not be a requirement)

They are kinda pointless as is ya. Stacks are no longer unstoppable.

FOW will matter more (money generation)

Not sure what you mean. Fow= Fog of War?

Changes in the food/housing/prestige mechanic: Food/Housing = faster population growth rather than being a cap.

But what will monuments/inns do? Hopefully cities still end up full of housing. What's to stop you from killing all your houses when your city reaches max level. I see what your attempting here but I have my doubts. It does however remove the all importance of food.


More cities = lower prestige.

A nice touch. Never had a problem with this though personally. I tend to concentrate on just a few cities.

Notable locations + Quests can be searched regardless of level.

Yeah an end to the fustrating clutter. Hopefully there is still a reason to research quests.

Random Events

Should be rare and important. If they are too common they will be bland and repetitive. They should come out of nowhere and skew some facet of the game. Chaos and oppurtunity should ensue. Should be rare and varied enough that they make every game different and interesting.

I

Very good points.  Can't argue that.  But there's a risk of people like me (not sure how big a percentage we are though so maybe we don't really matter heh), who will get tired of waiting for EWOM to be as it should be (ie 'funner') and might not care to give you guys another shot considering it's likely to be well over a year before the game is 'funner' from the date we all purchased it.  Are you more concerned with those potential 4.95 shoppers in 2012 over those that pre-ordered it at 50.00 based on the faith in your words upon release?  

Again, any word if Dynasty system will be worked on, ever?  

Plus your question"Q: Why are we enhancing WOM when FE is likely to be so much better received?" is pretty moot considering you've said it's actually a different, sort of complimentary to EWOM, game, right?  I'm just curious to see whether EWOM (you know, the game we all bought) will be receiving all the love and attention games like GalCiv2 got for so long after it's release once you guys actually finish FE? Somehow i doubt it considering so much was diverted from EWOM to make FE... but please, I don't want to be a cynic, please prove me and the others that feel this way wrong. 

I'd be very very happy to shut the F up if FE is awesome and doesn't make me even want to play EWOM anymore considering I'm getting it for free, on the other hand, I'd love to see EWOM be the game it should have been sometime in the near future. 

Also, Mr. Frog, what is your definition of "Content"?  I think your idea and that of many others is different. For example, for me (and from many posta on the board) "content" means lots of different options in terms of things like spells, units, quests, weapons, skills, talents, monsters, NPCs, nations, factions, etc.. and I don't see any mention of those things being addressed.  Though I love the idea of the things you proposed above, is there no plan to address these other forms of 'content'? 

I really don't like people coming into my topics and bringing negativity.  Could you please create your own topic for this, thank you.  I would like to hear more about the changes that are being made.  I am grateful that Stardock is continuing to show support for the game, they could just be like every other company and not do anything to make it better.  But what has Brad done?  He's hired new staff, a freaking super team to both improve WoM and to work on the new games in the Elemental franchise.  AND he's giving those new games to us for free.  No, it's not everything we could want, but it's more than I would expect from a company.  So, I understand you disagree, and I have made several post in the past that mirror your thoughts, so I do understand where you are coming from, but that time has passed for me.  So I ask, that if you want to continue this negativity, could you please create your own thread for it.

random event leak... diablo walks the earth!... zomg pownage!

No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)

Wait.... is this going to happen to bandits and darklings to? That would be cool. Rawr, killer monster stacks!

Somebody played FFH2.  Would be awesome to either mod it in to WoM, or get it with FE.  I always loved summoning Diablo, the four horsemen, and just watching as the other playes squirmed.

I would posit that this thread is the "exact" place for any opposing viewpoints.

All the pros and cons should be in the same place, so that all can see them and that they all have the same validity.

But his fucking veiwpoint isn't valid.  I hate the idea that just becasuse everyone has thgeir own viewpoint, it makes it valid.  It's not fucking Valid.  Stardock has bent over backwords appologizing and doing what they could to make it right.  Still bitching and being fucking demandobots is not the answer.  Shut the fuck up, bitches.  If you want to biotch, make a different thread.  This thread is about hearing new shit about the upcoming patches and new games.  I created a thread to ask about new shit and the developers answered.  Try that shit with another companies forum and see what you get.  I want Stardock peeps to not have to be attacked in this thread, make your own.

<insert "U mad, bro?" meme here>

I actually agree with you, but that was a little over the top.

I was wondering where the real Lord Xia was. Will the real Slim Xia please stand up?

Just because you disagree doesn't make someone's point invalid. Especially when the subject at hand is entirely based on opinions. It's not like he was trying to claim that water doesn't contain hydrogen.

I'm bored with all the repetitive ranting around here too, but a healthy share of that is cheerleading. Endless posts of breathless praise are as useless as stuck-in-a-rut griping. The proof will be in the builds, and it isn't time for pudding yet.

...and this is why you don't feed trolls. Please could we stay on topic and not devolve this wonderful post into flame wars about whose opinion is or isn't valid. We might scare the devs away. Even if someone posts a somewhat valid but completly offtopic complaint post the best thing to do is ignore it so we only have one bad post instead of half a dozen.

Anyway 1.3 goodies... Discuss!

?Does Xia count as a troll even though it is his thread? I'm never going to be able to keep up with this moving-target netiquette stuff...

You shouldn't worry about scaring away Stardock devs. They're a very hardy lot. Particularly strong in resisting pleas for more info.

"Xia, why so tense? Maybe it's your coffee?"

(VEEEEEEEERY old reference)

Sorry about being a jerk, I'm tired.

Q: What about beyond v1.3?

A: That really depends on the reaction to v1.3.  If we put out v1.3 and people crap on it, I'm not likely to invest a lot of my time into post v1.3 versions but instead focus on other things.

The goal of v1.3, for me, is to bring War of Magic closer to its original vision before I found myself having to treat my game design process as a Tetris game (changing it to fit what the engine could realistically do).  That's why v1.2 is taking so long, I'm insisting that the engine in v1.2 be capable of delivering what I'd like to do on v1.3.

My little team will be on v1.3 and the actual Elemental team will be on Fallen Enchantress (my little team being the equivalent of Darth Vader and his two wing men in Star Wars).

So if people like v1.3 I'm inclined to go to v1.4 where I can do things like make the dynasty system work closer to what I originally intended and start doing more interesting things with the AI and diplomacy/strategic evaluation.   That doesn't mean v1.3 is the end of the line if people aren't satisfied with it, it'll just mean that at some point we have to decide when it's time to put it in maint. mode or not.  v1.3 will be my best effort in time N to redeem War of Magic.  

I'm not worried about Fallen Enchantress (and once people start playing the beta it's going to be obvious why, they've really gone in and made it a better design than my original Elemental design to be honest with the things they're doing with economics, combat, and character creation).  But it matters to me that War of Magic, when looked through the prism of 5 years from now, is looked at fondly.

Hah! I knew your love of Song of Ice and Fire would pay off eventually. I don't know if I'll like 1.3 very much, but I like it already just because of your aspirations for 1.4.

can you plz give us some more info about dynasty in FE ? will it be the same or upgraded ?

Agreed, I should have kept out the negativity and simply asked my "what else is going to be

Fair enough, I should have cut the negativity and simply asked my specific question about things like "content" and the dynasty system.. sorry for sh!tting on your thread.

But also, in my defense, Froggy pretty much answered my questions which make me think HE at least thought my opposing opinion was worthy enough of an answer.

Though it seems odd to me that if people don't like 1.3 they'll just give up on it, but I guess when you pretty much have three dudes working on it, not much more you can do though makes me wonder what happened to the work-on-it-until-it's-done-right attitude that Stardock seems to get so much historical credit for in this forum? But as you said.. I'll leave your post alone with my sandy clam-ness.

Would love to hear what sort of ideas they have about random events... any hints? It's the most appealing thing to come out of the potential 1.3 updates.

Yes, yes yes..please answer this!

To put what he said in better context, it sounded as if he wasn't so much against people disliking it as he was against people "crapping" on it.

I imagine it must be extremely disheartening to see people doing everything they can to find fault, complain and basically just proclaim how much they hate a game. And despite the fact that Stardock not only apologised for past mistakes as well as gone to INCREDIBLE lengths to set things right, there are still those who say it isn't enough, question whether they can trust Stardock to continue support (no matter how many versions they release) or melodramatically claim that it'll never be enough.

Even I grow weary of the negative posts and I'm not even a Dev. Mind you, I'm not against constructive criticism.

Go Frogboy Go!

Brad,

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions (so often!).

I think I can speak for others here when I say if we didn't really care about this game and have at least some level of emotional attachment to it, we wouldn't harp on the aspects we think it needs.

Each of our pet wishes for this game are the things that we think will really improve the game and help move it from good to great.

If we thought EWoM was a lost cause, we would have moved on by now.

I am not ready to give up on this game.

Edit: Oh, and Alborrelli, GW Swicord and others, thanks for being the loyal opposition and keep it up. That role is a vital one that helps maintain balance when the emperor is naked.

I like the fact that you are making big changes here because WoM needs it. There's very little entertainment to be had in the game right now. If they are the right changes or not remains to be seen, but then at least you tried.

But it looks interesting. Any sort of simplification of the city building have my approvement. The 4 unit minimum is a kind of obvious improvement now that you mention it... And I hope the Strategic and tactical AI improvement means more interesting military strategy, not just build and rush?

I had given up hope and was awaiting FE, now I'm "cautiously optimistic" about 1.3 as well.