It's not unprofessional. He's just disappointed and i think he has every right to be so. What are the reasons for releasiong so early? i can't believe that many of the developers are happy to release this "game" in such an early state. Someone had to know that releasing such a buggy thing will put the people off. So what's the reason for this early release??? it is just completely counterproductive. fear of civ5? money issues? they knew it wasn't ready and it will piss people off, so don't be surprised now...

I wish...wish...wish I had read that warning from pcgamer before I bought this unfinished game.

I can't believe I paid $50 for it.  The same amount I'll pay for Civ V, which I'm certain will have a whole lot more polish and less bugs.

I don't feel like this is a huge deal. This is just a news post, and they've said they're holding off on their review for a bit because of the roughness of the launch, and the rate at which updates are coming. That's what people actually read. And to be honest, telling folks to not get this right at launch is not an unwarranted recommendation.

The quote out of context was messed up, though.

Don't even go there.  Elemental is better out of the box than Hellgate: London was after half-a-dozen patches.

I think the partial review was fair.  It did mention that stardock is a great company with good support for their games as well as mentioning the problems that the release had.  They did give a great preview in the august issue that praised the game so its not like they were out to hate it or something.  I like pc gamer am still get bugs that break the game.. As in the game screeches to a halt after 200 turns etc... I do like some of the improvements they made though.. One example is the exclamation point put up when a resource is now in a controlled area.

Not "harsh in any way at all" ?! What about the following passage, in the PC Gamer article ?

" But putting junk like this in a box and charging money for it is not okay, however rapidly you try and patch it afterwards. It punishes you for being a fan, it punishes you for buying on day one, it punishes you for pre-ordering, and it punishes you for having faith that a great company like Stardock wouldn’t ask you to pay for a game until it’s fit to be played. " 

"Junk" ?!

For the past 5 days, I have played many hours of versions 1.00 & 1.01 & 1.05.016 (today) : I really had the impression of playing a post-beta, release-worthy game. It was highly polished, albeit imperfect, product.

The fact that, in those 3 versions, there were (and still are) bugs, causes of crashes, incomplete features, is nothing special -- in the gaming industry (without trying to make excuses).

I read, somewhere on the forum, that Stardock had to execute a retail release of the game in August because retail-store shelf-place -- which has to be booked in advance, in the case of major retail outlets -- would only be available in August 2010 or February 2011. We must take into account that Stardock does not have the commercial clout of Blizzard and Ubisoft. Consequently, Stardock products must not be rated with a high-priority status by major retailers. If what was posted on the forum is true, delaying the release of the game for another 6 months would have deprived Stardock of non-Impulse, retail revenues.

Of course, some will state that the August-released, CD-format, version 1.00 really is a "beta". But is it "junk" ?

Some of us disagree : version 1.00 is a quality, release-worthy version -- despite the normal-for-the-industry bugs. Stardock's intense hard-work, for the past 3 weeks (and late last night), to fix and upgrade the game way beyond version 1.00 has shown an extremely rare diligence.

When the PC Gamer author wrote "junk like this", he employed a type of irresponsible and harshly unfair language which should not be tossed by serious commentators -- who are in a position to know better. Fanning the flames with provocative language has become a reckless media tactic to boost readership (and viewership -- hello FOX News).

Hey now, I'm playing on a crappy HP machine - you sir offended me LOL

J/K no offense.

Granted it is upgraded with a BFG power supply and a GTS 250 card, and 2 GB ram...

As outdated as all that is now anyway

But yeah, that's what would rip my hair out as a game developer - some people have no issues, some people are crashing left and right. Everyone is playing the same game, right?

I came here to investigate whether to buy the game, and I admit to being disappointed with what I read. I expected better from StarDock, especially concerning the AI.

Oh I remember Civ IV release who could forget the thousands of "memory leak" posts when it was released and the 10's of thousands of graphic card issues with Nvidia drivers. Yeah don't tell me how wonderful of a release Civ IV had lmao.

Here's a neutral perspective on the PC Gamer Piece:

--On the one hand, I haven't had the technical issues that the PC Gamer writer has had. So I wouldn't use the word 'disaster' to describe the lanuch at all. It's also important to remember that Master of Magic, the inspiration for this game that everyone gets nostalgiac about, was a buggy mess upon release, probably worse than Elemental in terms of stability. And since the game I've seen so far clearly has great potential,  Stardock's reputation for continuing to work hard on games after release gives me reason to think may end up being a classic.

--One the other hand, the PC Gamer reviewer isn't saying the game will always be bad - just that it's unacceptable now, and he has a perfect right to speak his mind and tell people to stay away until it's more stable. Previously, this writer was very supportive of Elemental, and PC Gamer loved Sins, so the idea that this reviewer is biased against indie companies seems like a bunch of fanboi nonsense to me.

Also, while I didn't have the stability issues that others had, it's clear to me on playing that this game did not get the late beta tuning necessary for a polished release - while the seeds of a fantastic game are there, the game went public with an inadequate UI, AI and balance issues, and a lot of general kluginess and sloppiness in the game. Part of this is probably rushing to market, and part I think is a bit of 'engineeritis' - because they've been playing the game for so long, it doesn't occur to Stardock designers that a new player would have no clue how to build a farm, that kind of thing.

Let's hope Frogboy keeps his head up and works hard over the next few months on the issues to ensure this game lives up to its potential.

I have yet to see any bug other then the ALT tab crash.

But man the AI is bad, really really bad. If any AI city is near me I just waltz right in and take over as they do not have much D. The AI is very docile as well. Although I have seen a few AI controled factions get conquered by other AI factions.

That was an unfair quote most definately, but everything else in the article is a valid complaint.  As a matter of fact, the article was downright generous.  Out of the box, Elemental is a game with severe problems and the columnist brings like to this.  If a game has such brutal issues out of the box, it's perfectly moral to suggest that people stay away from it.  But Mr. Francis in fact cut you some slack.  He assured readers that they should return to Elemental later when it is in better shape.  If he was obligated to give readers an honest opinion about Elemental out of the box, he did you a downright favor.  You should be flattered, Brad.  I can't tell you how many games I've seen get utterly panned with no "but's..." or assurances that consumers should "try it out later."

And why didn't he just pan the game outright?  For the same reason I'm not panning it outright, either.  Because we believe in both you and your company.  We know you are a "philosopher gamer" in a market where such a thing simply doesn't exist and we know that you will fix it and make it a game worth playing for a decade.  Very, very few reviewers would give an unprepared game they reviewed that kind of honor.

But for the sake of your own company's success in the future, you really need to just fess up, Brad.  Not for us, but for yourself.  If you just shrug off criticism of this fashion or discredit it on the ground of a quote or two taken out of context, you'll never recognize your own shortcomings and forever be repeating your mistakes.  And Element's release condition as a functional game?  Definately not a good thing.  You need to out and say "Bummer, we made a mistake.  It looks like we miscalculated on the matter of what we could get done in the time that we had."  Sure, having to say such a thing can bruise one's self-image, but you'll be a better game designer and a better man for it.  

I played a 850+ turn game with 2 crashes - about every 250 - 300 turns. - I enjoyed the game.  it has a lot of potential. 

Personally i am a bit disappointed by magic.  it seems to me that I can do my INT fire or lightning damage with lightning bolt or fire ball etc -  as it all resists the same - why bother researching both or all three etc.    I'd prefer a far more complex magical and resistance formula.  I and a lot of others said so in the beta forum.

I'd also like to be able to enchant items more like Master of Magic as that was always a lot of fun.  But doing it too similar may have been grounds for a legal problems I guess.  I have to add also I have far from explored all the ins and outs of what is possible in the game with enchanting etc.

But on the whole the game works - mostly.  It's playable and fun.  I expect it will get better and better over time and we will see other races and a far more enchanted fantasy universe evolve with mods and maybe expansions patches etc.    Elves riding unicorns and running an elvish, dwarvish etc sovereign are more than possible.  I'm not sure what language the game uses for mods.  But i guess i could work it out given a bit of time...

Personally considering the state of some games I have paid more for - this seems to be pretty stable to me.  Far from perfect - but i think my expectations of games running 100% right out the box died way back with Daggerfall.

Worse than that, retailers would have refused to stock the game if it was released on Impulse first.

The comments after the article are brutal.

Listen up dude. My game constantly crashes on 2 diffrent PCs (one desktop one laptop). I can't even start serious play. If you like spending your money on things that do not work properly - then congrat. But when I buy the game it is my fuc...... right to demand to work it properly (no fuc.... crashes to the desktop)

So bug off!

While I think the game has a few issues; I also agree with your comments. Unfortunately this is a problem with modern media coverage. As official figure head (ceo) you have a target painted all over you and one slip up will result in crap like below. Hopefully the negative impact will blow over in a few days.

Interesting to note. I still don't remember feeling it was unfinished while playing it on release, but I guess maybe a lot of the things you mention (buildings not doing what they said) would not be obvious if you were just playing the game casually and trusting that you were actually getting your research bonus and things like that. Of course that does not mean they were not still serious problems. I will say that the game at least did a good job "pretending to be finished" if nothing else. And the AI and game balance were definitely solid (if not perfect).

Do you really feel that elemental's release is on the same level as civilization's? It seems like there are so many big obvious bugs, that people aren't even getting to the less obvious ones yet. AI and balance definitely do not sound like they were on the same level either, and ultimately those are far more serious problems due to the fact that they cannot be corrected in a simple bug fix.

Well in theory, I remeber reading a post/statement by Brad Wardell that it shoul dbe able to "run on even a crappy netbook". Thus the level of hardware shouldnt be an issue, according to design, but we are seeing in even monster rigs have performance issues.

RAT

Lol yeah I think I am playing the same game everyone else is. I'm just not having issues like some of those trolls are.

Playing Elemental and seeing these riff raff trolls make their insane complaints makes me think of that song "If you want to have a wonderful life"

It's like being married to a fat, ugly, toothless wife all those on the outside just see her flaws and have no clue as to the good reasons why those flaws are actually good things for you. So she's ugly makes it easy not to worry about her cheating or anyone else wanting her. So she's fat that means shes most likely a great cook (how do you think she got so fat?) and she will keep you warm on wintery cold nights. So, she's toothles well now let me tell you a toothless woman can be awesome in the bedroom. :)) heeeh So that's how I see elemental I don't see her flaws unless they are blatant. I don't go around saying what others are saying about her instead of finding out for myself (a lot of trolls do this) and I am loyal to her because she's been loyal to me in the past. I am just surprised at fans of Stardock acting the way they are here. Where's your loyalty? Where's your support? I see how you are in a time of crisis you will all turn cowards and run when things get tough.

I've discovered that the AI seems to be based on the old "one AI will be really strong and the others will not" formula that many games used.  In my game last night, it was clear that one AI was picked to do well -- its research and power were comparable or better to mine.  The other AIs, though, were pretty bad.  Of course, these bad AIs were the ones that were closest to me.  Perhaps the game is designed that way?

I have to say it's been buggier than I expected mostly minor data bugs and a few crashes, but still a bit weaker than I thought it would be.

Still very enjoyable and they are as always giving it plenty of support.....to be honest I think of this as the fully featured beta.

As far as crash bugs are concerned I've had a lot less of those from Elemental than for example starcraft2 although it does ocasionally crash or atleast did before the last update.

To be honest I think they should have beta tested a couple of weeks longer to quash the minor bugs, but still they are supporting it well and no doubt being stardock will repay our patience with lots of free enhancements as well as bug fixes in the future.

Demiansky, great post - I think if Frogboy can get beyond how upsetting it can be to see folks trashing your baby, and see the validity in what many people are saying, it will make him a better designer, both in improving Elemental and in future games.

We all have our blind spots, and I think Frogboy's greatest strenth is perhaps his greatest weakness - he's a real gamer who makes games he personally finds fun. This is great for general game design/play decisions, but not so good for seeing issues that someone who hasn't been around the game for three straight years might have upon first playing - there's definitely some perspective missing, particularly on things like the UI. It's fascinating, because in many respects, he's brutally honest with himself about what's fun and what's not.

Except that there were a lot of obvious problems, too, like sluggish performance, out-of-memory errors, wonky sound bugs, units and cities randomly becoming unselectable, etc.

The biggest difference is that Stardock is much quicker with the patches and has better communication with its customers.

People only see isolated gaming studios, in reality most of those gaming studios are owned by very few key players/investors.

Game review sites, sell customer influence to them, and through them they try to make the gaming industry an oligarchy.

You can't even begin to imagine how much it pisses those people, the fact that Brad is the owner, the CEO, the Game designer, and a success story.

He has also stated that he isn't doing this for the money, he has enough. He's doing it cause he likes what he does. And for that he has my utmost respect.

He speaks openly to the press, because he has no fear, no one will fire him cut his shares or demote him. If he becomes annoyed he shows it, he won't let anyone look down on him and he sets the record straight because he can afford to do it. Hence the slanderous approach from the news and the double standards.

As many people have said in these forums, although it is evident to me. The world isn't a place filled with roses. I stopped reading reviews ages ago, right after a friend of mine working for a gaming magazine explained to me how magazines and reviews sites really "worked".