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There is something ... odd about this well [huge feedback on game]

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There is something ... odd about this well [huge feedback on game]

from Elemental Forums

Disclaimer: I'm writing this post as neutral as I know how. It's not a disrespect of the developers - merely a list of issues (both large and small) based on my short time with the game so far. I have ONLY played through a portion of the campaign so far - haven't even looked at the "actual" game. These are legitimate concerns / issues with the game (from my POV) - I'm not sitting up at 3:00am for the fun of it. If you don't agree with something I've said: that is your prerogative; don't start attacking me because Stardock is your bestest of buddies.

How about we start at campaign?

 

CAMPAIGN MAP PRESENTATION:

The campaign was designed to get players into the game and familiar with the core mechanics and basic gameplay. So far it has failed in both respects. The opening cutscene was fine, not amazing or anything but it did its job well enough. The problems arise as soon as the player is given control over his character:

  • The game does not explain in anyway movement points, how to move characters on the map or anything at all really about what the player first sees.
  • The game does not explain how turns function. It doesn't even point out where the "end turn" button is.
  • The campaign makes uses of the harmafaf-thingy (encyclopedia): Fantastic! Too bad it doesn't tell the player how to actually find it, or that it even exists.
  • Unless the player has found the encyclopedia, he will have no idea how to create a city - or that he's even supposed to!
  • The player has managed to found a city: amazing. Too bad he's not told how cities work, what their stats mean or how they are improved. Food isn't explained. Houses, populations, recruitment isn't explained. Nothing is explained! The player is not told how to construct buildings even!
  • Great the players finally managed to found his city and build up a population. Too bad an entire selling point of the game isn't explained: No where, not even once is the player told how to design units - He / shes not even told that it is possible. Nothing is explained yet again.
  • Resources and how they are acquired, used, etc are not explained what so ever.
  • This practice of not explaining shit continues: I could be here until next week talking about stuff that isn't explained.

 

TACTICAL MAP PRESENTATION:

The tactical maps, and how to even GET to a battle on a tactical map are not explained in any way:

  • Basics of combat are not explained.
  • Tactics movement is not explained.
  • Combat attributes, weapons, armor, etc <- no explanations.
  • Targeting enemies, with magic, melee or ranged weapons = no explanation.
  • Tile bonuses = no explanation.
  • Nothing is explained.
  • Heroes (and indeed, what separates heroes from the rest of the units) = not explained.
  • Experience, leveling up heroes and the such - not explained.

 

If I was new to the TBS genre I WOULD BE COMPLETELY lost. There is a very good chance I would abandon the game out of pure frustration / confusion. Even I was lost at times - not about the game play but what the actual campaign wanted from me. A tutorial itself should never confuse the player because then they're confused on two fronts: how the game works, and how to progress the tutorial.

I think that is enough talk about the campaign presentation. Again my experience has only been with the campaign, but now I will talk strictly about the game mechanics, features, etc.

 

TACTICAL MAPS:

There are a large number of issues with the tactical maps:

  • First of all, characters should not be able to have a "destination" set that exceeds one turn of movement. It only leads to confusion (like where two units end up stacked on the same tile - which has happened to be more than once already).
  • Show us the attack ranges for magic and arrows / bolts / whatever for our currently selected unit (or enemy unit). How the hell am I supposed to know where to position my archers otherwise?
  • Tile bonuses: they're pretty straight forward EXCEPT there is no graphical indication of what tiles have bonuses. I have literally encountered a group of tiles that all look identical, BUT - two tiles had +50% defense while one tile had -25% defense. Am i supposed to drag my cursor along the entire battle field and memorize the location of every tile that has a bonus or penalty? Add graphical indications and STAY CONSISTENT.
  • Unit move points: once one of my units has been moved - have him sit down or grey him out or SOMETHING. Don't force me to memorize which of my 8 archers have been used (especially since the camera goes crazy when using them). Give me some sort of graphical indication. (There is a chance that this is being covered by the character "list" on the side of the screen - but all I saw was health).
  • Squads, companies, w/e: I don't care that their attacks are stacked - it kind of works out well. But why do the hell does the health / armor stack? I seem to remember screen shots of units flying through the air - and other dramatic visuals. When a squad is attacked, each unit should suffer damage individually. Individual units should die INDIVIDUALLY. On a side note: let us combine like units int squads.
  • Unit positions: I've started tactical maps that have placed one or two of my units right next to the enemies army.... thanks?
  • There are number of strategic spells that should be usable on the tactical map as well (just like in Master of Magic).
  • Some units are removed from the map the second their dead body hits the ground (others a bit later). Why? If the computer had the resources to load them in to begin with, there can't be a need to suddenly start freeing up resources. Keep dead bodies on the tactical map. Remove them after the battle is over - this will also allow for spells with necromancy / etc in mind to exist.
  • I know this is more of a stylistic complaint but it maddens me to no end when I have 4 archers all no more than 2 tiles away from a giant drake AND EACH ARCHER MISSES, and continues to miss round after round after round. The thing is huge and I know this is related to its defense rating but damn.
  • Why are my spells missing? More importantly, why are my spells missing when being cast on my own units, from 1 tile away, 4 times in a row. Does my spearman just really hate being healed?
  • Every single battle, the AI targets the same unit, over and over and over. They just gun for him. Boring and predictable frights.
  • PLEASE let us turn off the auto-select for tactical battles. DRIVING ME CRAZY.

 

STRATEGIC MAP:

The strategic maps are probably the most polished aspect of the entire game:

  • The purposes of tiles with bonuses / penalties on the tactical map is pretty clear: why does the strategic map have the same bonuses? How do those work. Confusing.
  • Notable locations sometimes remain - mouse hover tooltips still show up after beating the area.
  • Dead people seem to still make tooltips popup some times.

 

PRODUCTION VALUES:

I guess a large portion of the budget when into developing the platform / (pretty) textures, models and modding tools (and yes, the core tech):

  • Human unit acknowledgments: repetitive, boring, sometimes absurd.
  • Enemies all share the same death sound effects. What the hell is going on: why do I hear the same thing when I kill a wolf, a spider, a troll and a drake.
  • Archers - apparently they have figured out how to fire (invisible) arrows with out pulling the string back on their bows. And apparently their arrows glow.
  • Tons of spells are missing sound effects. Just brings down the entire feeling of the game in terms of quality.
  • The number of spells: I seem to remember a massive thread (https://forums.elementalgame.com/386025) where people spent their time and energy listing huge volumes of spells. Why are there so few spells in the game - The game is called WAR OF MAGIC. Disappointing honestly. (I'm basing the spell # off of posts I've read from other users since the game's release - if these numbers have been incorrect then I'm sorry).
  • Tons of a little things: cursors graphics not changing when they need to, icons being used to represent the wrong things (a shield icon used to represent head-based objects during sovereign creations??), the mouse in general is inaccurate and is prone to fits of shaking.
  • The game apparently makes use of the havok physics engine - if you're going to spend the money then use the damn thing. All I've yet to see anything in any of the tactical battles use the physics engine to any impressive degree. What happened to Sauron throwing groups of men through the air?
  • Visual effects on spells: again for a game about magic (magic is in the title!) why do the spells have such generic effects? Some of them look cool - others far less so.

 

PERFORMANCE & BUGS:

  • It's not a bad thing, but the game is visually simple. It is definitely no Crysis, or Farcry 2, or Mass Effect, Etc. So why then does my game's performance come crashing down (reduced to 10 - 20 fps) when something as simple as a level 2 city comes into view? Issue documented here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391334
  • I love the thought of tactical battles. so imagine my pain when every 3rd tactical battle I get into forces me to use the task managed to force-quit the game: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391302
  • Menus and the GUI in general is rather sluggish. Menus should feel snappy when asked for, not slow.

 

EQUIPMENT BALANCE:

  • I've noticed some very odd balance issues pertaining to equipment used for trained troops. An example would be maces vs warhammers: warhammer supplies +24 to attack, while the mace supplies only +12. Yet, the warhammer actually costs 1 less metal unit than the mace - and 3 (or 4) more gold than the mace. In a game where gold quickly builds up, the extra gold of the warhammer is a non-issue.

 

MODDING:

  • I've been reading lots of threads (not just ones here) and people everywhere want a flexible modding system. It seems like something Stardock / Brad is set on which is great. Get as much of the core-game mechanics exposed via Python as possible. Allow for brand new GUI screens, total conversion, radical modifications to the AI, etc. All this and more will turn Elemental into a great game and platform.

 

Well, it's not 4:14 am. You'll notice that large aspects of the game have been left out (research, diplomacy, etc) - like I said, I've only been playing the campaign. The game has great promise and I wish it to succeed in all possible ways (obviously since I paid for it). I wish the developers the best of luck and look forward to what they come up with. Hopefully my post hasn't been too ranty of everyone's taste and will be of some help.

elemental
283,290 views 80 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

Um, to the thread starter... I'm not trying to say im smarter than you or anything, but I had never played the betas, I just started up a non-campaign large map and dove in. Within 5min I was as comfortable as in Civ4 or Galciv2 or any other game.

This game was never meant for soccer moms who doesnt even know what a 4x game is, and why would they need to explain where the end turn button is? There is only 1 button in the lower right corner of the screen, with a green icon on it, which says End Turn while hovering over it..
Anyone who's not intelligent enough to read tooltips is in bad luck regarding ANY modern games tbh...

I tried reading your entire post but halfway down it was clear that most of it was just "didnt explain, didnt explain, didnt explain".
I can only assume you're new to games. Sucks ;(

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

While I understand that Stardock will continue to develop the game, and I am mightily pleased with it at this point, I do agree with the OP.  I imagine that the devs will continue to listen to feedback, and add things as necessary.

 

Even having been playing since beta 2, it took me a few moments of searching the new UI to figure out how to cast spells, or even equip gear.  Some kind of tutorial needs to be added.  It might even come from a modder, and be made canon.  Simply a short 'campaign', with limited goals: An introduction to the character & interface, overland movement & interactions, city building & ui, tactical combat.  It doesn't need much, just the basics for anyone truly new to the game.

 

I also agree with some quick way of identifying unmoved units in tactical combat, whether it's an animation, or simply a shaded base.  The only way to tell if a unit has moved already is by selecting it, and seeing that the grid color is gray.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #53 from Stardock Forums Top

I think I agree with most of what is being said here. I've already requested a refund for this game. I'll probably check back in a while once it's completed or has a more complete experience. I've played Civ, Gal Civ, Moo and the original. I just don't feel much value in this game yet, but I look forward to seeing what it might become.

Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

I hope you lose the ability to play after you get the refund.

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

People complain how modern games are dumbed down and when someone puts out a game that has some complexity to you get people wanting to be hand held.

The game's not hard to play. You couldn't figure out how to equip your guy or cast spells? There's two buttons on your sovereign. Only two. One button equips him. The other casts spells. Did you try mousing over them? There are tool tips everywhere.

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

Um, to the thread starter... I'm not trying to say im smarter than you or anything, but I had never played the betas, I just started up a non-campaign large map and dove in. Within 5min I was as comfortable as in Civ4 or Galciv2 or any other game.

I enjoy the game so far but I definitely had trouble trying to figure out what was going on... Starting to get it with some trial and error.( I have played both the games you mentioned and many more.....4x) The stacked units thing especially ..Until I read this thread I thought it was just a shortcut to build more individual units!!

I do have two things that I would like to see in the game however...(besides those already listed)

1.  It would be nice to have a lists of quests that were given and completed.  An icon could be placed up in the right hand corner with the other ones to access it.

2.  I would like a way to designate a party as such... That way I don't keep accidentally separating my heroes/units from it constantly when looking at them.   This also brings up another point of having to individually click the units I would like to exit the city... If units were already together they should be able to be selected within the city by just clicking on the leader of the party. 

Also it would be nice to have a dialogue come up when units meet on the map to ask whether you want them to actually join each other.

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Baleurion, reply 51
Um, to the thread starter... I'm not trying to say im smarter than you or anything, but I had never played the betas, I just started up a non-campaign large map and dove in. Within 5min I was as comfortable as in Civ4 or Galciv2 or any other game.

This game was never meant for soccer moms who doesnt even know what a 4x game is, and why would they need to explain where the end turn button is? There is only 1 button in the lower right corner of the screen, with a green icon on it, which says End Turn while hovering over it..
Anyone who's not intelligent enough to read tooltips is in bad luck regarding ANY modern games tbh...

I tried reading your entire post but halfway down it was clear that most of it was just "didnt explain, didnt explain, didnt explain".
I can only assume you're new to games. Sucks ;(

I could have doven into a non-campaign map as well. Like I said originally: my only confusion came from trying to find / figure out things the campaign wanted me to do.

You're statement about Elemental only being for the hardcore is ridiculous. People have to be introduced to the genre somewhere. Did you pop out of your mothers womb ready to play turn-based 4X games? I didn't think so. Do you want the market for 4X games to become stagnant, only decreasing as the players get older and die off?

I'm not new to the game or the genre - I was writing the "doesn't explain" portion from the perspective of someone was however.

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top

Disclaimer: I'm writing this post as neutral as I know how. It's not a disrespect of the developers - merely a list of issues (both large and small) based on my short time with the game so far. I have ONLY played through a portion of the campaign so far - haven't even looked at the "actual" game. These are legitimate concerns / issues with the game (from my POV) - I'm not sitting up at 3:00am for the fun of it. If you don't agree with something I've said: that is your prerogative; don't start attacking me because Stardock is your bestest of buddies.

How about we start at campaign?

 

CAMPAIGN MAP PRESENTATION:

The campaign was designed to get players into the game and familiar with the core mechanics and basic gameplay. So far it has failed in both respects. The opening cutscene was fine, not amazing or anything but it did its job well enough. The problems arise as soon as the player is given control over his character:


The game does not explain in anyway movement points, how to move characters on the map or anything at all really about what the player first sees.
The game does not explain how turns function. It doesn't even point out where the "end turn" button is.
The campaign makes uses of the harmafaf-thingy (encyclopedia): Fantastic! Too bad it doesn't tell the player how to actually find it, or that it even exists.
Unless the player has found the encyclopedia, he will have no idea how to create a city - or that he's even supposed to!
The player has managed to found a city: amazing. Too bad he's not told how cities work, what their stats mean or how they are improved. Food isn't explained. Houses, populations, recruitment isn't explained. Nothing is explained! The player is not told how to construct buildings even!
Great the players finally managed to found his city and build up a population. Too bad an entire selling point of the game isn't explained: No where, not even once is the player told how to design units - He / shes not even told that it is possible. Nothing is explained yet again.
Resources and how they are acquired, used, etc are not explained what so ever.
This practice of not explaining shit continues: I could be here until next week talking about stuff that isn't explained.
 

TACTICAL MAP PRESENTATION:

The tactical maps, and how to even GET to a battle on a tactical map are not explained in any way:


Basics of combat are not explained.
Tactics movement is not explained.
Combat attributes, weapons, armor, etc <- no explanations.
Targeting enemies, with magic, melee or ranged weapons = no explanation.
Tile bonuses = no explanation.
Nothing is explained.
Heroes (and indeed, what separates heroes from the rest of the units) = not explained.
Experience, leveling up heroes and the such - not explained.
 

If I was new to the TBS genre I WOULD BE COMPLETELY lost. There is a very good chance I would abandon the game out of pure frustration / confusion. Even I was lost at times - not about the game play but what the actual campaign wanted from me. A tutorial itself should never confuse the player because then they're confused on two fronts: how the game works, and how to progress the tutorial.

I think that is enough talk about the campaign presentation. Again my experience has only been with the campaign, but now I will talk strictly about the game mechanics, features, etc.

 

TACTICAL MAPS:

There are a large number of issues with the tactical maps:


First of all, characters should not be able to have a "destination" set that exceeds one turn of movement. It only leads to confusion (like where two units end up stacked on the same tile - which has happened to be more than once already).
Show us the attack ranges for magic and arrows / bolts / whatever for our currently selected unit (or enemy unit). How the hell am I supposed to know where to position my archers otherwise?
Tile bonuses: they're pretty straight forward EXCEPT there is no graphical indication of what tiles have bonuses. I have literally encountered a group of tiles that all look identical, BUT - two tiles had +50% defense while one tile had -25% defense. Am i supposed to drag my cursor along the entire battle field and memorize the location of every tile that has a bonus or penalty? Add graphical indications and STAY CONSISTENT.
Unit move points: once one of my units has been moved - have him sit down or grey him out or SOMETHING. Don't force me to memorize which of my 8 archers have been used (especially since the camera goes crazy when using them). Give me some sort of graphical indication. (There is a chance that this is being covered by the character "list" on the side of the screen - but all I saw was health).
Squads, companies, w/e: I don't care that their attacks are stacked - it kind of works out well. But why do the hell does the health / armor stack? I seem to remember screen shots of units flying through the air - and other dramatic visuals. When a squad is attacked, each unit should suffer damage individually. Individual units should die INDIVIDUALLY. On a side note: let us combine like units int squads.
Unit positions: I've started tactical maps that have placed one or two of my units right next to the enemies army.... thanks?
There are number of strategic spells that should be usable on the tactical map as well (just like in Master of Magic).
Some units are removed from the map the second their dead body hits the ground (others a bit later). Why? If the computer had the resources to load them in to begin with, there can't be a need to suddenly start freeing up resources. Keep dead bodies on the tactical map. Remove them after the battle is over - this will also allow for spells with necromancy / etc in mind to exist.
I know this is more of a stylistic complaint but it maddens me to no end when I have 4 archers all no more than 2 tiles away from a giant drake AND EACH ARCHER MISSES, and continues to miss round after round after round. The thing is huge and I know this is related to its defense rating but damn.
Why are my spells missing? More importantly, why are my spells missing when being cast on my own units, from 1 tile away, 4 times in a row. Does my spearman just really hate being healed?
Every single battle, the AI targets the same unit, over and over and over. They just gun for him. Boring and predictable frights.
PLEASE let us turn off the auto-select for tactical battles. DRIVING ME CRAZY.
 

STRATEGIC MAP:

The strategic maps are probably the most polished aspect of the entire game:


The purposes of tiles with bonuses / penalties on the tactical map is pretty clear: why does the strategic map have the same bonuses? How do those work. Confusing.
Notable locations sometimes remain - mouse hover tooltips still show up after beating the area.
Dead people seem to still make tooltips popup some times.
 

PRODUCTION VALUES:

I guess a large portion of the budget when into developing the platform / (pretty) textures, models and modding tools (and yes, the core tech):


Human unit acknowledgments: repetitive, boring, sometimes absurd.
Enemies all share the same death sound effects. What the hell is going on: why do I hear the same thing when I kill a wolf, a spider, a troll and a drake.
Archers - apparently they have figured out how to fire (invisible) arrows with out pulling the string back on their bows. And apparently their arrows glow.
Tons of spells are missing sound effects. Just brings down the entire feeling of the game in terms of quality.
The number of spells: I seem to remember a massive thread (https://forums.elementalgame.com/386025) where people spent their time and energy listing huge volumes of spells. Why are there so few spells in the game - The game is called WAR OF MAGIC. Disappointing honestly. (I'm basing the spell # off of posts I've read from other users since the game's release - if these numbers have been incorrect then I'm sorry).
Tons of a little things: cursors graphics not changing when they need to, icons being used to represent the wrong things (a shield icon used to represent head-based objects during sovereign creations??), the mouse in general is inaccurate and is prone to fits of shaking.
The game apparently makes use of the havok physics engine - if you're going to spend the money then use the damn thing. All I've yet to see anything in any of the tactical battles use the physics engine to any impressive degree. What happened to Sauron throwing groups of men through the air?
Visual effects on spells: again for a game about magic (magic is in the title!) why do the spells have such generic effects? Some of them look cool - others far less so.
 

PERFORMANCE & BUGS:


It's not a bad thing, but the game is visually simple. It is definitely no Crysis, or Farcry 2, or Mass Effect, Etc. So why then does my game's performance come crashing down (reduced to 10 - 20 fps) when something as simple as a level 2 city comes into view? Issue documented here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391334
I love the thought of tactical battles. so imagine my pain when every 3rd tactical battle I get into forces me to use the task managed to force-quit the game: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391302
Menus and the GUI in general is rather sluggish. Menus should feel snappy when asked for, not slow.
 

EQUIPMENT BALANCE:


I've noticed some very odd balance issues pertaining to equipment used for trained troops. An example would be maces vs warhammers: warhammer supplies +24 to attack, while the mace supplies only +12. Yet, the warhammer actually costs 1 less metal unit than the mace - and 3 (or 4) more gold than the mace. In a game where gold quickly builds up, the extra gold of the warhammer is a non-issue.
I've noticed that the training time for units is ONLY dependant (so it would seem) on the number of units in the squad. Their equipment plays no role in how long it takes to train the units. I would think that producing 8 men armed with clubs would take considerable less time than training 8 men fashioned in full armor with shields and swords.
 


MODDING:


I've been reading lots of threads (not just ones here) and people everywhere want a flexible modding system. It seems like something Stardock / Brad is set on which is great. Get as much of the core-game mechanics exposed via Python as possible. Allow for brand new GUI screens, total conversion, radical modifications to the AI, etc. All this and more will turn Elemental into a great game and platform.
 

Well, it's not 4:14 am. You'll notice that large aspects of the game have been left out (research, diplomacy, etc) - like I said, I've only been playing the campaign. The game has great promise and I wish it to succeed in all possible ways (obviously since I paid for it). I wish the developers the best of luck and look forward to what they come up with. Hopefully my post hasn't been too ranty of everyone's taste and will be of some help.

Seriously how can you come up with ALL of these conclusions if you have not even played the game? You even say clear as day you have not even played the actual game and only a SHORT time with the campaign. I don't think thats fair to the developers since it is nearly impossible to state all of this already about the game. Maybe, just maybe you should play it a bit more before coming to all of these conclusions.

Reply #59 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CapitalShip, reply 58

Seriously how can you come up with ALL of these conclusions if you have not even played the game? You even say clear as day you have not even played the actual game and only a SHORT time with the campaign. I don't think thats fair to the developers since it is nearly impossible to state all of this already about the game. Maybe, just maybe you should play it a bit more before coming to all of these conclusions.

Uh oh. Someone was dropped on their head one too many times as a child.

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't pay attention when they said that there two games: the campaign I played and an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT game using different graphics, sounds, tactical battles, mechanics and features for those who are playing on the random maps. Thanks for clearing everything up!

Reply #60 from Elemental Forums Top

That what he has noticed so far.  I have only played a couple of hours which were enjoyable.  i worked out most of it by watching clips posted by Frogboy and staff.  Will play again tonight with likely a more critical eye. That said most games these days need patches.  Look at Fallout or Oblivion - massive games with documented bugs and the alrge majorty fixed by modders rahter than staff and they are really well funded. That said this is the only company I kno of that the ceo of the company is so involved in the forums of his game which is a very good sign for continuing development.

Reply #61 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with the OP on many of his observations if some of these things are not added to the main patch release/0day.  I have not played 1.0 yet, but after playing a few beta versions I had hoped that the final release would not be as cumbersome to jump into.   

I'm sure that Stardock will step up and fix these issues and the memory/ctd issues that still perssist.  We will just have to wait it out like we did with Demigod. 

Reply #62 from Elemental Forums Top

Oops wrong thread.

Reply #63 from Elemental Forums Top



I've noticed that the training time for units is ONLY dependant (so it would seem) on the number of units in the squad. Their equipment plays no role in how long it takes to train the units. I would think that producing 8 men armed with clubs would take considerable less time than training 8 men fashioned in full armor with shields and swords.

 

This is incorrect. Swords increase training time by one turn for a single unit, bows I believe are three more turns. The research dialog even alludes to this. The effect is different when producing groups than single units, though. Strangely I think that the pioneer's pack has the 5 extra turns listed under its cost while bows and swords do not.

Reply #64 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Theutus, reply 36
I never read manuals or use tutorials, unless absolutly necissary. That being said, a tutorial covering the basics should be pretty common place. This games controls seem pretty standard to me and I personaly wouldn't use the tutorial if it was there.


I guess this is pretty much my position as well.

I was getting scared when I was hearing about how bad the UI is an what not, but...I don't have any problems getting around it. *shrug* I don't mind the unit acknowledgment blandness - they almost fade into the background for me after hearing them for the 1000th time anyway (I couldn't tell you any of SC2's unit responses).

I haven't gotten any crashes or whatnot and the performance is fast and I'm on a single core computer (AMD 3800+) with probably the minimum of RAM these days (2 GB).

So I guess, so far I'm not seeing any issues. I wouldn't mind if the UI got better or what not (not going to say it's "perfect" if there's any such thing as "perfect") but I'm just glad I'm not tearing my hair out like others are. I really was getting scared a bit.

And, of course, I'm all for making it mod-able/customizable. I'm all for modding where ever it can be applied and I'm sure there's some very creative folks out there that can do wonders.

Some of the graphical complaints I agree with - the archer thing always gets me. I can understand the death sounds (like unit responses) but those too tend become less noticeable for me after a while (in fact, didn't even think of it until I saw it mentioned).

 

Reply #65 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting fissure, reply 63

quoting post

I've noticed that the training time for units is ONLY dependant (so it would seem) on the number of units in the squad. Their equipment plays no role in how long it takes to train the units. I would think that producing 8 men armed with clubs would take considerable less time than training 8 men fashioned in full armor with shields and swords.


 

This is incorrect. Swords increase training time by one turn for a single unit, bows I believe are three more turns. The research dialog even alludes to this. The effect is different when producing groups than single units, though. Strangely I think that the pioneer's pack has the 5 extra turns listed under its cost while bows and swords do not.

Ok thanks for correcting that.

Reply #66 from Elemental Forums Top

Great feedback. That may sound harsh, but most of the issues listed here (except for the SP campaign obviously) have been brought up before. Elemental still has a long way to go to become a classic.

MODDING:

  • I've been reading lots of threads (not just ones here) and people everywhere want a flexible modding system. It seems like something Stardock / Brad is set on which is great. Get as much of the core-game mechanics exposed via Python as possible. Allow for brand new GUI screens, total conversion, radical modifications to the AI, etc. All this and more will turn Elemental into a great game and platform.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Reply #67 from Elemental Forums Top

More help is needed - either a manual or tutorial doesn't matter to me.  I missed the end turn button initially - it would be useful if it changed colour or sparkled once all the units had moved.  Casting spells still escapes me - I couldn't work out how to summon a familiar or cast flatten land.

The small spider is a different type and has a higher attack strength - not a particularly logical example for the walkthrough - could be covered by some verbal clue (The large spiders seem slow, but the smaller ones are fast and deadly) and then pointing to the attack strength on the mouseover.

Don't worry I know that once you have worked with something for so long thins are so natural you forget that you have to explain them to new people. (That said, lets get the documentation done!)

Reply #68 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting fissure, reply 63




quoting post


I've noticed that the training time for units is ONLY dependant (so it would seem) on the number of units in the squad. Their equipment plays no role in how long it takes to train the units. I would think that producing 8 men armed with clubs would take considerable less time than training 8 men fashioned in full armor with shields and swords.




 

This is incorrect. Swords increase training time by one turn for a single unit, bows I believe are three more turns. The research dialog even alludes to this. The effect is different when producing groups than single units, though. Strangely I think that the pioneer's pack has the 5 extra turns listed under its cost while bows and swords do not.

how does this work then if you change a unit's equipment later?

Reply #69 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with many points here.

I think that the game is missing a lot of polish and balancing.

It is fun, but it could have been much better i think.

I for one think that tactical battles, magic, unit and equipment balancing just isnt there.

Some examples:

- speedy weapons trade attack for combat speed. Thats nice for heroes, but bad for Units. Since damage stacks for each soldier it is always better to have more attack and kill the enemy before he retaliates. Against big monsters it is even more crucial, because your unit most likely wont get a second attack. Also you need the attack stat high to even hit them.

- magic should not miss. I can shoot my bow all day long, missing once doesnt hurt me much. But wasting half my mana on a level 1 spell against a spider and having 6 misses in a row isnt fun. Because it takes strategic TURNS to recover from a miss. Even worse are high level spells. Using a spell that has a damage rating of 40 against a levle one spider and then dealing 1 damage is ... &%/§$$%. Higher spells should increase min dmg and max dmg. Sometimes you just want to make sure.

Examples:

Flame Dart: min dmg = 1; max dmg = INT; Mana 2

Fireball: min dmg = INT/3; max dmg = INT*1.2; Mana 3

Flame Burst: min dmg = INT/2; max dmg = INT*1.4; Mana 4

 

- Why cant i position my units at start of battle ... am i always surprised?

- Somehow the whole battle UI behaves like an artefact from the continuous turn times.

- Someone explain how equipment is priced please (shop and unit design). It seems totaly random. What are they balamced around? Game stats, material used, time needed to create?

 

Anyway, the game is fun. And i have faith in Stardock to make it even more fun.

 

PS: Also, please include true random maps. 

 

Reply #70 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting RFHolloway, reply 67
More help is needed - either a manual or tutorial doesn't matter to me.  I missed the end turn button initially - it would be useful if it changed colour or sparkled once all the units had moved.  Casting spells still escapes me - I couldn't work out how to summon a familiar or cast flatten land.

The small spider is a different type and has a higher attack strength - not a particularly logical example for the walkthrough - could be covered by some verbal clue (The large spiders seem slow, but the smaller ones are fast and deadly) and then pointing to the attack strength on the mouseover.

Don't worry I know that once you have worked with something for so long thins are so natural you forget that you have to explain them to new people. (That said, lets get the documentation done!)

 

You cast spells on the strategic map by clicking the book icon next to the mana bar in the bottom right when you've got the caster selected.

Reply #71 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting OsirisDawn, reply 69


- magic should not miss. I can shoot my bow all day long, missing once doesnt hurt me much. But wasting half my mana on a level 1 spell against a spider and having 6 misses in a row isnt fun

 

 

If im not mistaken intelligence influences wether you hit or not with magic.

Reply #72 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting asteroides, reply 71



Quoting OsirisDawn,
reply 69


- magic should not miss. I can shoot my bow all day long, missing once doesnt hurt me much. But wasting half my mana on a level 1 spell against a spider and having 6 misses in a row isnt fun
 

If im not mistaken intelligence influences wether you hit or not with magic.

My Sovereign was level 2 with INT 17. I should not miss 6 times against a single level 1 spider. ^_^

I have the feeling that melee attacks miss much less often.

Reply #73 from Elemental Forums Top

I'd like to throw my two cents into the equation.

I think the exaggeration of asking for a tutorial to turn on a toaster is GREAT, but utterly necessary: NO game should assume prior knowledge. It doesn't have to be as easy as using a toaster oven, but it should be at least moderately intuitive.

Maybe I'm from Uganda or some location severely suffering from a severe toaster shortage. Maybe I've never seen a toaster before.

Or maybe I play shooters and this "turn" thing you speak of is Greek to me.

Really though, I don't want to help flame, but I do wish my fifty bucks went towards a little more shine.

Reply #75 from Elemental Forums Top

This feedback thread really hits some of the most prominent issues I have with Elemental. It's excellent that Stardock will keep patching this game and a year from now we probably couldn't recognize this current version as the same game we have then, but I honestly do not think that it is in any way fair or wise to release a game this bugged and this unpolished to the market.

I can't for the life of me understand why, when Frogboy keeps saying that Stardock being privately held and its own publisher that they aren't pushed around by some quarterly reports, they insist on rushing a game out like this. Why on earth wouldn't they rather give this game 6 more months before official release and concurrently give their developers a bit more free time.

The beta process Elemental had was exceptional, but it was cut way short. This game still feels like a beta (the beta we had felt like an alpha). Other AAA PC games have bugs upon release as well, but pretty much all of them are much, much more polished upon release. When people who have been in the beta and people who are hardcore enough to hang on the forums don't get how the game works, it's clearly extremely unintuitive. I hate to disagree with Brad, and I don't think the reviewers are going to be that gentle with this game in its current state.