I agree WebGizmos and Philly.  Pas, we're friends but you need to open up your eyes/mind more.

Bush isn't without blame, but Barney Frank and his allies are the ones who created the sub-prime mortgage mess which led to the downfall.  Blaming tax cuts, which pulled us out of the last Clinton recession were needed and effectively helped the economy more than anything.  You can talk about invisible surpluses all you want, the fact is the current occupant of the White House has outspent 8 years of Bush in one single day.

My end of the "change" has been to spend less, because everything costs more.  Am I part of the problem?  Sure.  My money isn't going into the market because I can't afford to put it there.  It's a tired circle.  Raise the price of milk, I cut back on intake of milk, making the price of milk raise because some bastard feels like he isn't making enough of a profit.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I think I'll just buy more guns for when the zombies take over. 

I'm not about to defend the policies of the past. I don't care how we got here. I want to see us moving forward with ACTUAL recovery. It seems to much of what gets passed today is intended to benefit some political contributor or the unions or further the progressive/socialist agenda.

I also disagree with the 8 years thing....It's been going on since the mid 70's. Deficit spending shouldn't happen ever. The only time I agree with it is in the event of war and even then they should have a plan to recoup.

even I get deflected.....

Again I'm looking for (good or bad) stories of "Change you can believe in" there's already plenty of right vs left threads going.

You mean they haven't already?

dog, frank couldn't do near as much damage as what 8 years of an idiot as pres and a crook as vp could do. i'm sorry you watch faux news. even ailes says faux isn't a news organization but is an entertainment org. you may want to add in the costs of two wars into bush's budget and see how they compare to obama's. keep in mind, bush never included the costs of fighting two wars in his budgets whereas obama does. was it bush or cheney who said deficits aren't bad? i think it was cheney. your bush tax cuts added to the deficit and did very little for the economy, if anything at all. it seems the tea party nuts want a return to the reagan years. things weren't good under reagan. have they forgotten reagan raised taxes 6 out of 8 years? i get moody everytime i drive on the ronald reagan expressway in indy.

lantec, things haven't changed for me one iota. i've been disabled for years. i wish the docs would allow me to work but as they won't. i'm always asked if i want to keep my leg or not. i choose to keep it.

wom, i opened my eyes and mind far too wide during the bush admin and hated everything i saw. i didn't like bush when he was gov of texas and liked him less as pres. and you're right. we are friends

Lantec, sorry to hear that you had to close your business.

we moved from CA to NC in 2006 for various reasons but one of them was so that I could retire, quit travelling and be a stay at home dad. I am now drawing SS and my son receives a stipend also as he is under eighteen (his college fund). my wife still works for her CA company and thank goodness has health insurance. I'm having a hip replacement at the end of the month.

so today, were doing good. don't know about tomorrow....

so he had to write a check to make up the difference for eight years of loss, and................

How's that "change" working for ya?

Seriously, about like the "changes" in 1988, 1992, 2000, and presumably about like the next "change" of whenever/whatever.  The only changes of any significance I've ever seen in my life are when I've changed something.

I know that sounds hokey but it's the truth.  Screw the politicians.  Just try to pick the ones that might do the least damage, and try to keep them from sucking out more taxes.

Who controlled Congress and added their pork to the bills which increased the deficit?  Without their consent and approval the deficit left by Bush wouldn't be anywhere near what it was.  Now they have complete control and look at your deficit now.

In case you don't get it, Congress approves the bills.  The President just signs them into law.  During the Bush Presidency it was the Democrat Congress that had control of the purse strings.  If they were so concerned about the deficit they could have just said no.

mine was a little tongue in cheek. however, I do think the republicans screwed the pooch and got caught with their paws in the cookie jar.

pork? they all do it, where have you been. remember the bridge to nowhere.

regardless of which side of the aisle you're on, there aren't many good politicians.

Ya when Bush/Cheney went in the Republicans controlled everything.  People got so cranked off they voted them out.

Same thing could happen to Dems this time.  Short memories.

Mostly self-serving bags of advertising as far as I'm concerned.

Nope! That won't work because President Obama is going to cut military spending over the next five years because we cannot keep spending what we don't have.  That man walked into the biggest mess I've ever seen in my life - and I've seen some tough ones.  He did not create the housing collapse nor did he get us into Iraq and Afghanistan.  You can thank Bush for that.  President Obama did not vote to dump all of the regulations designed to protect average people.  You can thank Bush and friends for that too. 

We are now getting out of Iraq and we need to get out of Afhanistan.  We cannot win in Afghanistan.  If anyone can find a copy, I highly recommend a book written by Dan T. Moore called, "The Game."  It is about Afghanistan and written by a man who knew the country.  Dan Moore served in the OSS during WWII.  It's quite an eye opener.  Dan Moore said that only locals could win a war in Afghanistan.  There are literally hundreds of miles of tunnels through the mountains from Afghanistan into Pakistan.  Outsiders could never find their way through the many hidden doorways, passages and traps but they are a veritable open highway for Osama bin Laden and friends.  At one time, I worked part-time for Dan T. Moore.  He was a fascinating, highly intelligent individual. I read in an article that the CIA uses his book as a primer but not sure if that is actually true.  If it's not, it should be! 

This time I survived unscathed.  But back in 1989 and 1990 I worked in the DoD market.  When President Clinton closed all those bases, the DoD market went plop!  In northern Massachusetts and New Hampshire, many people lost their jobs.  There were whole streets of boarded up houses and engineers drove around with their resumes mounted on their vehicles. 

One day, I went to the supermarket with my two children.  There was a man at the entrance with a sign that read, "Wife and three children.  Will work for food."  He wasn't a bum.  I recognized him.  He was a former engineer with Sanders Lockheed.  That day I knew the time had come to get out of New England.  I called my family, packed up our stuff and moved to Florida.  It took almost nine years for me to rebuild my life  - for the third time. 

I've learned one thing that has sustained me through the rough times.  When the sky looks its deepest black, it is just before the dawn.  We will get through this - beaten, battered and wrung out maybe but, by God, we WILL get through it.  It's time to quit fighting, rebuild our economy and get Americans back to work.  I want to buy goods Made in the USA.  There was a time when Made in the USA meant you were buying the very BEST.  We need to put Americans back to work and we need to start manufacturing goods in THIS country again. 

It's time to bring back MADE WITH PRIDE IN THE USA!       

Bush and his cronies threw a party for 8 years and you're blaming the guy who got stuck with the check.  

First Americans must learn something called patience. It took Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr., nearly 30 years to create this mess. Don't expect it to disappear overnight. It could take decades. You just don't realize just how near going down the tubes America was going under Regan's Voodoo economics you were.

For the naysayers who want everything to back the way it was under the CONservatives this is for you and why you're totally irrelevant and in some cases you should be labeled traitors.

http://www.sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php

I know what you mean, hankers.  But you can't tell people the facts they don't want to hear.

Once again, it must be said... CONGRESS CONTROLS THAT.

There are way too many kool-aid drinkers spouting off about things they don't FULLY understand.

Apparently, some people watch too much MSLSD.

Socialism Sucks... enough said.

narbytrout, you've never been to Canada have you? Its a socialistic nation. Our quality of like is much higher than yours (I'm not talking about standard of living.) Quality of life is much more important than standard of living. In other words you can't buy true happiness. The hardest hit with this much lower quality of life in America are it's children. They are the least well off in the West. Socialism works when properly used like up here in Canada (It doesn't have to be perfect to be better), and you are an idiot.  That's not opinion, it is fact.

[spam link removed - admin]

Now you may get a PM telling you how 'irrelevant' you are. 

scharchuck

Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

I'm on the outside looking in.

Most of the world is on the outside looking in.

Most of the world now feels 'happier' looking at the US,

Maybe it's because from the outside Bush was seen as 'dangerous'...he even infected Australia's PM [Howard] with the ideal of "pre-emptive strike" {that's ego-speak might-is-right God-is-on-our-side spin for invasion].

Remember...to the rest of the world, the US is just another country with nuclear capability, entirely able to snuff out the planet as efficiently as North Korea [or whatever is the flavour-of-the-month-problem-country].  Anyone who lived through the 'cold war' was as scared of what the US might do....just as what Moscow might do - either way we ALL would be fucked.

And MOST of the planet had no say in it.

A new Pres....ANY new pres -  that might change [improve] the outside world's attitude towards the US is a VERY good thing.

Maybe it's "just" because there is a black President which is demonstrative of when "I had a dream" became reality.

I was around when "I had a dream" was dreamed....and am still here to see a figure-head realisation of it.

Whether this current administration is to blame for your economic melt-down - I strongly doubt it, as nothing anyone can do will make a wild impact in the short term.  The 'disaster that is the US economy' probably needs to be apportioned to many administrations over a decade or more.

If Obama's reign is ever attributable to recovery or a defining instance in a time-line of spiraling decline it'll be some time again years from now before that is discernible.

All the current running around and blaming everyone [other than one's self] is like an ants nest at the first signs of rain.

No amont of scuttling around will make any difference....not to the rain.

BRAVO!!  Well said, Jafo!