mastroego mastroego

Sigh... you had me

▼

Sigh... you had me

from Elemental Forums

You had me, when I read about Elemental's planned features

You had me, when I learned about this "MoM reimagining"

You had me, when I knew about the feedback-driven development

You had me, when I read about the continuous improvements made on released software

You had me, when I saw the result of the art direction choices

 

And then you LOST me..

when I saw the details about the activation procedure.

Sorry guys, this is just wrong.

I know piracy is a big issue and all, but such requirements only encourage it, imho.

If I buy something, I want to be able to do what I want with it (except reproducing it, of course).

If I have an obsessive relationship with the whole OS-reinizialization thing, I don't want to DEPEND on the company's kindness every time I intend to re-use something I already own.

I still have MoM, and I tell you, years and years later I DO NOT have to contact and BEG some non-existent company to activate it and play it, since I can do as I please with it.

Too bad really. I was on my way to recharge my prepaid card (which is something I don't use very often really). :(

Then again, if you implement Nightshade as a terrain bonus, I guess I could capitulate, but that doesn't change my point. You were pitch perfect until that last detail, which is utterly unfair to the customer (at least one like me)

 

elemental
263,212 views 112 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

We still support our OS/2 customers from prior to MoM being released (we've been around quite a long time).

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

The Cardinal Rule of Internet Forums: Don't feed the trolls.

Is OP a troll? Clearly - and a stunningly accomplished one at that. A petulant post resulting in 3 pages of replies during which there are several developer replies; internal arguments between the forum denizens; OP demands that everyone cede to his aberrant personality traits and brags about money spent on software.

Both developers and consumers have rights. DRM is a comprise between the two. Stardock's is the best. As for a few decades from now, be patient. In 10 years or so Elemental will likely be available the same way BG2 or MOM is now. If the DRM is upsetting, be patient and wait for when the game is no longer current. Everybody wins!

And never forget: Don't feed the trolls.

CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #53 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Island, reply 48

That means that if I reinstall the OS a lot, everytime I've got "to ask" for permission to use the gameagain. This is what I don't consider fair, even not taking into account the possibility to receive "no!" as an answer. Frankly, it doesn't seem like a "trollish" complaint, to me.


You are not asking for permission, activation is basically just verifying your purchased game.  Which in reality if it is a legit purchase, then there is nothing to worry about.

Impulse takes care of it all, pretty much silently and not intrusive at all.  There are far more worse things out there.

 

No, I agree. There is something to worry about there, especially for legit customers because, as everyone keeps pointing out, pirates really don't care. They're not in the system so saying the if it is a legit purchase there is nothing to worry about is pretty silly. If it's not a legit purchase, there is never anything to worry about because you're not asking permission or activating (same damn thing) anything.  Is Stardock's DRM scheme the worst out there... no, but I am not going to sugar coat it either.

And never forget: Don't feed the trolls.

The worst trolls out there are the ones runnning around trying to claim everyone else is a troll.

Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

/later

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting mastroego, reply 46

Yea ... you only need to be online IF your patching, and can be offline while using the patch ... and apparantly can even save the patched data onto a physical source after the update as well. 
That would solve my issue as I said, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus about this point...

To clarify, I'm NOT complaining about having to use Impulse to download a patch... the problem rises when you re-install the OS from scratch: the Stardock official info page clearly states that upon OS re-inizialization you have to go through the entire procedure again.

I'm not going to flame you because if you aren't trolling and really haven't bought a new game since BG2 then you are way out of the loop and don't understand the current gaming situation out there.  Stardock has about the *least* intrusive DRM on the planet.  How about needing an constant Internet connection to play a single player game?  Go look at Ubisoft.  I won't even talk about Steam and Steamworks. 

All Stardock requires is that you register the game in Impulse....once and only once...and only if you want to get patches.  You can totally ignore Impulse even exists after that.  Run it only when you want to patch it.

And you can "archive" your games to disk at anytime, at least you used to be able to.  This will give you an install file for the game in it's current state including all patches.  You can then burn this to a DVD if you want.  So that should cover you 20 yrs from now.

That means that if I reinstall the OS a lot, everytime I've got "to ask" for permission to use the game again. This is what I don't consider fair, even not taking into account the possibility to receive "no!" as an answer. Frankly, it doesn't seem like a "trollish" complaint, to me.

No permissions are needed.  You reinstall your OS you then have 2 choices:

1) Install the game from your DVD again.  If you wish to patch it reinstall Impulse, log in and patch away.

2) Install Impulse and log in.  Download the entire game with most recent patches and install.

3) Install game via your archive file.

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

Ok, thanx to the posters who didn't quickly label me as a troll :) I'm not. If I weren't interested in purchasing the game, I wouldn't have bothered to post here.

My complaint maybe is more philosophical than practical: I do believe that legit customers should enjoy the smoothest, easiest, most complete and comfortable experience. Any inconvenience they have to run into because of the pirates, is a point scored by the pirates.

Example: movie DVDs (I used to collect them before blu ray) that force you to watch the intro lecturing about piracy!  Heck, if you see that, it means you have bought it! Such choices are illogical imho, and push people all the more towards piracy.

But if Impulse is the less invasive of the modern anti-piracy systems, then I guess it's OK, I'll go along with it, and I'll definitely try and get that "archive" option working.

Thanx for the replies again and see you back in month :) Plenty of time to recharge my prepaid card ;)

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 52
We still support our OS/2 customers from prior to MoM being released (we've been around quite a long time).

 

Pffffft! Call me when you support AmigaOS. ;p

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting mastroego, reply 57
Ok, thanx to the posters who didn't quickly label me as a troll I'm not. If I weren't interested in purchasing the game, I wouldn't have bothered to post here.

My complaint maybe is more philosophical than practical: I do believe that legit customers should enjoy the smoothest, easiest, most complete and comfortable experience. Any inconvenience they have to run into because of the pirates, is a point scored by the pirates.

Example: movie DVDs (I used to collect them before blu ray) that force you to watch the intro lecturing about piracy!  Heck, if you see that, it means you have bought it! Such choices are illogical imho, and push people all the more towards piracy.

But if Impulse is the less invasive of the modern anti-piracy systems, then I guess it's OK, I'll go along with it, and I'll definitely try and get that "archive" option working.

Thanx for the replies again and see you back in month Plenty of time to recharge my prepaid card

No problem.  We all agree we hate DRM.  But Stardock puts no DRM on their games.  The only "DRM" they really use is they make patches worth downloading with new features thus you need to just to simply register the game.  This by far is the least invasive of game companies today.

As for Archive, according to the help file you can archive a game which will create a .impulse file of the game at it's current state.  To install the game from that archive you then just need Impulse installed and Impulse can restore your game.

You probably don't have to worry about Stardock long term, they've already been around for nearly 20 yrs and most of their money isn't from games so they aren't relying on their few games to keep the company solvent.  :)

Reply #59 from Elemental Forums Top

The only thing that Stardock has EVER done to miff me even a little bit was to stop putting out their patches as stand alone downloads. I do Completely Understand this is to help fight piracy and I'm sure it's a wise decision. Many, MANY, other companies have gone this route in the last few years. I don't like it, but as TwoHawks says above me, it's the reality of the situation.

This does scare me though that some day I may end up moving back out into the sticks of Lake County where there's limited to no internet connection in my old neighborhood. Believe it or not when I lived out there (for a little over 10 years) I barely ever used the Internet because the only access I had was Dial Up. Because of this I avoided anything that was "Online" or that needed to be connected to the internet regularly to patch.

I would love it if Stardock made patches to games downloadable for Only Paying Customers so I could save them on my system and back them up for storage for the years to come if I ever do have to move back to a area with no connectivity.

 

Reply #60 from Elemental Forums Top

Well I thought "what the heck", recharged my card and just pre-ordered the game (Digital Download, I've had some troubles with overseas expeditions) :)

Now do I have to wait 3 weeks, or do I get to download the Beta? (I'll be honest, mostly I hate to have the transaction pending :D) I guess it's the former, as Impulse isn't showing anything (I did check the "show prerelease versions" box).

Thanx all again and sorry if I seemed a troublemaker or something ;)

Reply #61 from Elemental Forums Top

beta closed last Thursday.. after  4 released ... so ya have to  wait..:'(

Reply #62 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 60
...

I would love it if Stardock made patches to games downloadable for Only Paying Customers so I could save them on my system and back them up for storage for the years to come if I ever do have to move back to a area with no connectivity.

 

http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com/  ?

 

It still requires Impulse but I think it fulfills your stated goal.

Reply #63 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Zubaz, reply 63



Quoting Raven X,
reply 60
...

I would love it if Stardock made patches to games downloadable for Only Paying Customers so I could save them on my system and back them up for storage for the years to come if I ever do have to move back to a area with no connectivity.

 


http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com/  ?

 

It still requires Impulse but I think it fulfills your stated goal.

Doesn't impulse require online connectivity?

Reply #64 from Elemental Forums Top

Also, if in twenty years the company goes kapoot, I am sure frogboy will personally release the patches on an idependent server so that we can update post-Stardock. Then you can save them and play on. But if you ask me, the gold version will have most all patches and anything can really be self-patched given the ease of access we are given.

 

Hypothetical problem solved. :ninja:

Reply #65 from Elemental Forums Top

But.... what if ninjas assassinate him before then?  And all the backup servers he sets up in his will are destroyed by volcanic eruptions?

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Reply #66 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting mastroego, reply 57
Ok, thanx to the posters who didn't quickly label me as a troll I'm not. If I weren't interested in purchasing the game, I wouldn't have bothered to post here.

My complaint maybe is more philosophical than practical: I do believe that legit customers should enjoy the smoothest, easiest, most complete and comfortable experience. Any inconvenience they have to run into because of the pirates, is a point scored by the pirates.

Example: movie DVDs (I used to collect them before blu ray) that force you to watch the intro lecturing about piracy!  Heck, if you see that, it means you have bought it! Such choices are illogical imho, and push people all the more towards piracy.

But if Impulse is the less invasive of the modern anti-piracy systems, then I guess it's OK, I'll go along with it, and I'll definitely try and get that "archive" option working.

 

I'm less personally bothered by software that requires online activation per se as by software that requires you to redownload the entire game/program from some foreign server to reinstall it. If your ISP has a monthly bandwidth cap, and especially if that cap is small (like 25GB or less), it's extremely problematic and is in a way like being charged for the software again.

I have such a cap and I don't buy many digitally distributed games as a result, but for the ones I have bought I've been willing to go to some lengths to avoid redownloading them. So, I can definitely confirm that, while extremely clunky, the Impulse archive system does indeed work (at least, for Gal Civ II, Sins of a Solar Empire, and Demigod). If you want to be extra ultra sure that you can still play Elemental in 20 years with all patches, and burn an archive copy of your Elemental install to a DVD and throw the Impulse installer on it as well for good measure.

I've noticed another thing: with some games -- and I suspect this may be true of Elemental, too -- it's possible to simply copy the (patched) install folder (c:\program files\whatever) over to another computer and run it, making it very simple to install onto other computers on a LAN or to keep for backup purposes. Worth checking when you get your copy, anyway.

Reply #68 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ZehDon, reply 26



Quoting mastroego,
reply 19
So I guess I was right after all (despite being labelled as a "troll"


That was uncalled for ... but that pic is awesome.

Reply #69 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Zubaz, reply 63



Quoting Raven X,
reply 60
...

I would love it if Stardock made patches to games downloadable for Only Paying Customers so I could save them on my system and back them up for storage for the years to come if I ever do have to move back to a area with no connectivity.

 


http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com/  ?

 

It still requires Impulse but I think it fulfills your stated goal.

Kinda, but not really. I'm running Impulse and there's no way I can use it to download Just The Patches for GalCiv 2 into ".exe's" that I can run later or back-up to disk. I don't even have GalCiv 2 installed atm, but I would love to be able to download all the patches for it and store them on a disk I can put up. During GalCiv 2 was when you switched over from putting up downloaded patches to putting up patches I can only get by having the game installed and patching it. Not quite the same thing, but close.

Reply #70 from Elemental Forums Top

Just burning a DVD with the full patched game on it is easier then downloading all the patches, really. It's a one step install process (install the archive and you're done) instead of a multiple step process.

Reply #71 from Elemental Forums Top

Doesn't impulse require online connectivity?

The Anywhere archives are designed for offline installation. If you make a regular archive from your own install within Impulse, you will need to be online to install from it. If you download the Anywhere archive, it will install offline.

Reply #73 from Elemental Forums Top

 ??  

-_-

As I said I've already preordered the game and I'm just peacefully waiting for it to be available.

Reply #74 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting mastroego, reply 74
 ??  



As I said I've already preordered the game and I'm just peacefully waiting for it to be available.

oh ok in that case you aren't an ultimate troll. ;)

Reply #75 from Elemental Forums Top

"you had me" sounds kinda creepy imho.

example:

"Sigh ... you had me at Hello, Baby. ;) "

 

 

 

 

everytime I see this title I think of phrase "you had me at hello" and its creepin me out xD