Elemental: Sneak Peaks

Progress as described in your "Sneak Peeks" post sounds good.  

Your comments: " As some of you know, Elemental BETA 3-B is the last public beta prior to the Modding beta (Beta 4). The modding beta will take things into a different direction while the team focuses on polishing, fixing bugs, and adding your requests into the main game in time for both the DVD release version (August 6)  and the Day 0 release version (August 24)."

As long as you are asking for input............

1. Fix magic system - but I know you are working on it based on previous posts and I sent you my input so I won't repeat it here.

2. Add some more interesting "treasures" such as magic swords, armor, prisioners to free etc in a few of the dungeons in addition to the common stuff we find now.  That should include more "rescue the beast's young" options like the wolf cub one you have in now.

3. Real experience based leveling for the non "hero" units in the game.  If its there now I don't see it.

4. More "fighter" type NPC's to hire.  In 3A the mix seems to have move to researchers and farmers etc.   They are certainly needed but we need a few real fighting hero's to hire.

Thanks for asking and for this game which I think will be the first one to surpass MOM.

Crunch time is near. Good luck and good work.

Brad my final request to you is: flesh out the dynasty system! 

It's something I'm sure you have a lot of ideas for. Allow me to encourage you to put them in and emphasize them.

Thanks for the Q&A i'm sure this will cool some peoples jets, atleast mine are now luke warm

Great Job guys keep it up!

I love the wolf quest! hopefully we'll have more stuff like that. 

Does that mean that aside from map layout and starting position resources and animals etc etc will all be placed in the same spot every time? Are there any random elements to the static maps? I love random maps in multiplayer games. They are excellent for FFA modes. After release is there any chance you will continue to work on this?

Love the fact that you do such a good job about communicating with the players. Many developers seem to ignore this or think that a tweet or two over a period of months is "good enough." It seems like such a no brainer to take advantage of the gaming community and also make sure that they know what's going on.

Kudos!

I do think random maps will be needed for MP, even if they're not balanced.  It's important for longevity purposes.

When it comes to any game beta or final version i played, you guys by far provided the most feedback. And quit a few harsh replies as well. But your "keeping it real". Proud to support Stardock.

Glad to hear about the tactical battle. I for one enjoy turn based battles... but got bored quick of them. But MoM kept me entertained. And cant wait to see how you guys do yours.

And "if the AI cant use it, then no one can" is a bold dedicated statement.

So AI will have to or even want to spend time researching diplomacy tech tree so they can trade or alliance with other AI teams.

If so thats border line genius

....And this is why Stardock is my favorite developer.

Is it me because I actually feel excited and sad all at the same time now that beta will soon be over. I enjoy reading all the ideas good, bad, or even drama filled. I hope that these forums remain active well into release and beyond!

I'm not involved in testing the beta, but I've really enjoyed following the development of the game in the Dev Journals. Learning the ins and outs of how Stardock develops a game during the beta stage, and the thought processes that go into the decisions, has been great.  I want to echo the appreciation for the in-depth communication.  I'm really looking forward to playing the game when it comes out, and thanks to all the beta testers providing feedback and the developers seeming to listen well, it sounds like the released version is going to be really good.

I am very happy to hear the philosophical commitments to the single-player experience and not having features the AI can't use, which I feel go hand-in-hand.  What I tend to enjoy most about games as a single player is the interaction between myself and the AI.  I love games where the behavior and reactions of the AI can surprise me and make me say "why didn't I think of doing that?"  The AI and the player have to be on the same footing in order for that to happen and especially in order for it to feel satisfying when you finally beat the AI!

So, I totally agree, single player versus intelligent AI is where its at!  Keep up the great work.

You don't like tactical battles yet you like MoM.  I'd assume that you weren't then fond of the battles in Age of wonders or Age of Wonders II or else you wold have mentioned them (That's a honking big assumption I realize).  They seem to be very similar to me.  So, going further down my path of unwarranted speculation The access to two quite similar tactical battles, one which you're fond of and one which your not, should make it a fairly simple matter to spot the differences, throw them in your working model for elemental and see if you're right about what makes battles appeal to you.

In any case I'm rooting for something that I'll like, and I'm just pleased that there will be battles (I really missed them in Galactic Civ 2) and they won't be real time (I hated them in sword of the stars).

I hope the adventuring tech tree rises to the occasion; I am sure it will be my favourite.

After release MP will evolve based on what active players are looking for.

For release, we're looking to provide a base starting point without making too many assumptions about what those users want.

Too many games, imo, come out and say "This is how you have to play it, take it or leave it." We learned with Demigod that it is far better to save some of the budget to see what the people who actually play the game that way want.

Ok now that we're onto v.806, I'd like to add a few comments on Elemental gameplay.. There will be issues that will inevitably be changed or polished, and whilst bearing in mind it's still beta, I'll raise them here regardless. Some of these points also cross over into each other and some will be raised on points i am unaware of, however this is meant to be after all, constructive criticism.

1. Intuitiveness: The intuitiveness of the game needs work. I know this is a strategy game. I know it has battles and cities. I start with my character whom has a create kingdom button alongside his profile. A city is created. Buildings can be built and soldiers also once the command post has been built. Then i am left to click what i know unless i poke around and explore through buttons. Clicking on various buttons may well give me something, but the intuitiveness isn't present to do so in the first place. I'm a spellcaster and I know i can attack people in combat but i have no idea how i am casting. I can research spells but i cant intuitively understand the relation to magic, spells and spellpoints etc. from my character, let alone other npcs. The right hand bar with events is well and good but when i get 20 come up in one turn it is a hassle and monotonous routine to have to either hover and read each one, and or close them each turn. I don't know how to adventure or what heroes mean. Adventuring to me means moving my character onto a goody hut. Are NPC characters just another troop type i can use to fight with that may or may not confer certain bonuses to my kingdom and carry items?
   
   
   • Solution: Tool tips. Popups. Event reminders. Graphical representations. A single window at the start of the turn listing buildings built in which town would suffice to cut down clutter and with which to be disposed of with one click. Automatic cycling through units/cities which not haven't been actioned that turn would also give greater intuitiveness to the player. A reason to click or want to click certain buttons is missing. A 'Elementalopedia' is needed or a way to view tech info after researching them.
     
     
2. Immersion: The game lacks the immersive qualities of a good game. I feel no reason to play the game from the start. I'm not driven to build cities or crush my enemies. Nor am i driven to go on quests, to marry or enter alliances etc. The attempts to create an immersive atmosphere by means of goody huts, questing locations/dialogue etc. are all well and good, but are too common and repetitive to warrant anymore than clickable buttons..
   
   
   • Solution: Once again, a greater intuitive interface and communication system to the player will help this. Better and more varied dialogue but in shorter punchier grabs. The opening screen after world creation starts to tell me something but i just click because it seems to much to read for no gain. The same with quests. Maybe there should be invisible locations that you can puzzle out by reading the dialogue rather than an automatic map beacon all the time. Caravan people traveling along the roads are a nice touch but maybe more can be made of it. Little towns/huts popping up along the roads which may confer gold bonus, can be pillaged? Random signs in the wilderness pointing out locations (cities or hidden ones)(shamelessly taken from Warlords). Inns can heal units if rested there for gold. Your own characters should have somewhat of a mind of there own as far as questing etc. goes. (shamelessly taken from Majesty) Random events which cause attacks/sieges to occur to a city (shamelessly taken from Castles) That game actually had an interesting gameplay path somewhat driven by player story/event decisions.
     
     
3. AI: Now although Frogger has already stated the AI is and isn't a problem right at this moment, it's still an issue at the moment. It's nowhere where it needs to be in all terms of NPC interaction etc. These things will be worked on warranted, BUT games like this one fall down in areas as i have mentioned above simply by the removal of need. The AI is insufficient enough to wage war in any manner at the moment. So many options to do with building cities/buildings/soldiers, casting spells and engaging diplomacy  are driven by war and the need to be on the offensive/defensive and are crippled without a sufficient need to use them. These become a matter of button clicking now rather than strategic decisions based on the hostile nature of relationships and motivation.
   
   
   • Solution: The game AI needs to switch on 'Raging Barbarians' quick smart if the beta players are to be able to efficiently and effectively gauge the games system and components properly at this stage of the beta.
     
     
4. Pace: Whilst the pace of the game is undoubtedly tied somewhat to the above, it is also somewhat lacking in terms of ability to do many basic options early on without advancing some aspect. I'm a spellcaster but i know limited spells by which to cast with. My warriors are limited to start with and i have to build a building first to do so.
   
   
   • Solution: Raging Barbarians is a start but also the ability to stay one city and be able to crank out magic/soldiers etc.. effectively early on. There maybe should be a minor and major version of spells (shamelessly taken from Warhammer 8th Ed). Contested ground should be a viable option. Pillaging special tiles/shards and competing over possession when unlinked to a city so there is more to do early game. You guard a special tile for X amount of time and receive a unit/item/spell etc.. (capture the flag).
     
     
     
5. Cities/Special tiles: Cities are too linked to the surrounding special tiles and as such form snaking formations. Special tiles are too removed from the map graphically. Cities become too alike and numerous. It becomes simply a matter of button clicking untill you city becomes really big filled with building tiles and you've built everything you can. I don't even look at gold and food production except for housing because its not a concern for me. I just click, rince and repeat each turn and on each city. The buildings themselves seem to meld too well into the general graphical style to warrant distinction.
   
   
   • Solution: Special tiles should be grouped with like terrain and more seamlessly integrated into the map. Cities should be somewhat contained in how much they grow and how fast. I really like the idea of giving cities specialisations upon growing and I think this area should be explored some more. More diversity by specialisation. Maybe you can only build certain buildings after choosing a certain specialisations. Specialisation and building bonuses need to be more intuitively attributed graphically also. Greater distance between cities with an emphasis on villages along roads could help diversify the map. Less buildings or greater building tile allocations (like tetris 3 tile buildings in a line or L etc.) and more seemless integration of building titles into the city structure should be used to help diversify cities.
     
     
6. Spells/Research: Pretty much to sum up what i have said above about each. I could just click my merry way through both of them, and despite acquiring new buildings which i would see, not know what the hell i am doing, what bonuses or spells i am acquiring and what they do or where i may check there impact on later.
   
   
   • Solution: There needs to be more intuitive and critically informative access and implementation of both.

These are a few of the things that i can see at the moment off the top of my head which, outside graphical and stability bug fixes, need attention imho.

Cheers,

Darkhour

What you described here is compulsion, and while I agree on the point, immersion is the wrong word. This may seem like a quibble, but immersion deserves discussion in its own right. In short: compulsion is what draws you in to the game; immersion is the lack of anything which kicks you back out. Though they're closely related, viewing them as one and the same is probably bad for the final outcome, because you may inadvertently concentrate too much on one side, thinking you're addressing the whole issue. They really are two separate domains, in practice; and depending on your target audience, one or the other might be more important. Certainly, concentrating on one or the other can dramatically affect the game experience. For example, I'd suggest that Morrowind offered stronger immersion whereas Oblivion offered stronger compulsion.

Thank you!

Great Post, Frogboy. Excellent indeed . There is one slight thing that confuses me a bit.

The "DvD Version" on Aug 6th, that's the Gold Version correct? Not a version that we'll get before Aug 24th.

I only ask as I think it would make some people ask "So we can get this on Aug 6th?".

Note: It would be cool if you could release it on Impulse for those who have pre-ordered the Deluxe version. I got the Digital Download + actual Boxed version and then upgraded to the Limited Edition as well. If you can't release it to anyone on the 6th because of legal issues or deals with vendors or something though I think we'd all understand.

From what I understand, they have an agreement with their retailers to release the game on the 24th. If Stardock releases the game on the 6th then they'd be breaking their agreement.

no.. no i meant immersion.. although i may have referenced to the compulsive aspect within the game, I did intentionally label the header 'Immersion'..

I am not a huge fan of turn based combat but I am drawn to the game so far even without tactical battles in. I do wonder if the idea of a slow paced real time concept is still being considered as I thought it was once for combat. I am thinking of something similar to star wars empire at war on the galaxy map where the game doesn't wait for an end turn but moves at a pace such that the user can make decisions and give orders.

That's what I was thinking as well. Although, Impulse is Stardock's own distribution service and Pre-Order customers/Beta Testers are a very limited group when compared to how huge the entire target audience is. When it comes to total sales the pre-order/beta testers are just a small drop in the bucket and possibly "immune" to their other distribution agreements.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing it could be "possible", which is what prompted me to bring it up as I figured someone else might ask anyway.

Q: How are you dealing with video card stuff?

A: Now this is trickier. There are certain video cards that are giving us fits, especially with advanced lighting. That includes blurred graphics. Corrupted graphics. White textures, etc.

In the old days, I’d email a user having the problem and ask them if I could call them on the phone and go back and forth (hey, we’re one of the few indie developers left).  We couldn’t afford to buy every video card out there.

Luckily, now, nVidia and ATI send us their cards and because of our non-game work, we have a compatibility lab set up which we’re hijacking starting this week to speed up the process.

Make sure to test the 9800 GX2 Nvidia since that is my card and it seem to not like elemental. All of the above I get quite randomly.

I find this interesting. I'm curious why this was done (and hopefully Brad will be nice and comment). With a game like Elemental where latency is an extremely low priority, why bother setting up servers on a global scale? Why not just ensure you have enough servers at your HQ to handle the load?