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Elemental: Beta 3 High Level Preview

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Elemental: Beta 3 High Level Preview

from JoeUser Forums

imageI’ll be going into much greater detail of Beta 3 as we get closer. It’s scheduled for next week.

Let me first assure you that Beta 3 will NOT be very fun. I keep trying to warn people that there is a reason why Stardock betas are outlawed by the Geneva conventions. Survivors of previous Stardock betas can attest to this. The reason why our final games end up doing so well is because the beta process forces us to jettison weak and bad ideas prior to the game being unleashed on the public.

But if it makes you feel better, WE at Stardock are having a lot of fun. When the modding beta comes out, you guys will get to see why. Frankly, the modding tools in Elemental are dangerous, evil, and simply put, should be illegal.

But here are some highlights of what we plan to have in the public build of beta 3:

  • The Empires. The Empires will finally be in. That’s 5 new factions, 4 of which are made up of other races (non-men).  As one person observed, it’s not so much Kindoms vs. Empires but rather Men vs. Fantasy races. :)
  • All tech trees enabled. That means Diplomacy, Magic, Warfare, Civilization, Adventure, Imperium, Conquest, Sorcery, Domination, and Cooperation.
  • The HUD will be in. This is something we’ve been playing around with for awhile but didn’t want to put it in the public builds lest beta testers let us off the hook. We don’t want to use the HUD as a crutch to get us out of having to make the game visually intuitive.
  • Lots of new content will be in.
  • NPC AI will start to go in.
  • Monster AI will start to go in. 
  • Neutral Cities will be in.
  • Game Mechanic Changes. The Sovereign will be able to found a kingdom (1 city) but after that, only pioneers can build new cities. We definitely did not like the idea of your most powerful unit (sovereign) who can also scout also being able to found cities. It cheapens it and takes away the strategic danger of it. In short, we hated it.

Player suggested ideas going in:

We’re reading the forums and already some cool ideas have come up including Enchantment slots, Champion ability trees, Equipping UIs, etc.  How many of these will make it into Beta 3 versus Beta 3-A remain to be seen.

Regarding performance

One thing we are keeping an eye on is performance and memory. I.e. the more “stuff” we put in, the more CPU it’ll use and the more memory it’ll use. Thus, it is important for people to follow THE BETA GUIDE for reporting so we can get an idea of what thresholds we’re hitting.

BETA 4 not far behind

The only difference between beta 3 and beta 4 is opening up the modding tools and we are very anxious to do that sooner rather than later. So expect Beta 3 to be short and Beta 4 to be longer as a result.

We may (key word: may) allow users to create quests and submit them to be included with the game. Some of you may have noticed that user suggested NPCs are now in Beta 2-B.

STANDARD WARNING

Elemental is probably the first game we’ve had a beta of that was well known before the game was released. With Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations the beta testers were more “hard core” and I remember how those betas went (my team of therapists keep trying to get me to “move on”). Suffice to say, by the time we close the beta, MOST users will NOT be happy with it.  With Sins and GalCiv, terms like “broken”, “flop”, “suck”, “pink pony refuse” (I have no idea what that means but it sounded bad), “fail” were used.

In the first Galactic Civilizations beta (2003), the starbases were suggested by beta testers and didn’t make it into the public beta (imagine GalCiv without starbases). We ended up loving the idea so much we put a picture of a starbase on the box and implemented them after the public beta closed.

My point is, these betas aren’t here as demos or early access to “the game”. The betas exist to help make sure the final game is really good.

82,919 views 45 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

I would not qualify these humans as "good" necessarily. "Less bad" is I think an apt description. Or how about "human." Speaking of race, did we ever get an answer about conquering cities, and what happens to the population/buildings of a different race?

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

STANDARD WARNING

Elemental is probably the first game we’ve had a beta of that was well known before the game was released. With Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations the beta testers were more “hard core” and I remember how those betas went (my team of therapists keep trying to get me to “move on”). Suffice to say, by the time we close the beta, MOST users will NOT be happy with it. With Sins and GalCiv, terms like “broken”, “flop”, “suck”, “pink pony refuse” (I have no idea what that means but it sounded bad), “fail” were used.

In the first Galactic Civilizations beta (2003), the starbases were suggested by beta testers and didn’t make it into the public beta (imagine GalCiv without starbases). We ended up loving the idea so much we put a picture of a starbase on the box and implemented them after the public beta closed.

My point is, these betas aren’t here as demos or early access to “the game”. The betas exist to help make sure the final game is really good.

 

Let me assure you, this is The Truth.  Beta 4 of Sins... well, as a finished game, it SUCKED.  It sucked HARDCORE.

 

Was still pretty fun, though...  :D  Poor Frogboy, no matter how much fun he tries to suck out of his betas they still have an element of it.  A big element.

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Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Was still pretty fun, though...  :D   Poor Frogboy, no matter how much fun he tries to suck out of his betas they still have an element of it.  A big element.

LOL.

Well, our games are never finished. They simply get released at some point.  I still don't consider GalCiv II finished.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 28

Well, our games are never finished. They simply get released at some point.  I still don't consider GalCiv II finished.

 

Soooooo, Galciv3 is on the way?

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13


Depends on the bug. 

If its' a cosmetic bug, then it won't get fixed until the public beta phase is over.

If it's a crash bug, it'll get fixed during the public beta.

If it's a performance/memory issue, it'll improve during the course of the beta.

What about user interface issues?  Please don't "save" these to be fixed after the beta ends!  The UI changes may not addres all the concerns or themselves introduce new problems.  It also wastes the tester's time as new people keep reporting the same issues and they get rehashed again and again on the forum.  Please please fix the UI during the beta, not after!

 

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 28

Was still pretty fun, though...     Poor Frogboy, no matter how much fun he tries to suck out of his betas they still have an element of it.  A big element.


LOL.

Well, our games are never finished. They simply get released at some point.  I still don't consider GalCiv II finished.

Unless you plan on releasing more content for it, or patching it up some more, it's finished :P

GalCiv 3 will be a New and Separate Game. I'd LOVE to hear about some GalCiv 3 Btw :)

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top


All tech trees enabled. That means Diplomacy, Magic, Warfare, Civilization, Adventure, Imperium, Conquest, Sorcery, Domination, and Cooperation.

:omg: Wait... What?!?!

There are more tech trees? I thought the 5 current were enough. Granted they do need a bit more filling out.

The HUD will be in. This is something we’ve been playing around with for awhile but didn’t want to put it in the public builds lest beta testers let us off the hook. We don’t want to use the HUD as a crutch to get us out of having to make the game visually intuitive.

What do you mean buy "HUD"? I ask because that typically refers to the UI. There is already a HUD with the resources, action icons, mini map, and etc. Is this something additional added on top or a complete redo of the UI?

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Everything sounds good so far, but for me it's tactical battles that will make the game shine (or not)...

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

not gonna lie, I find this game to be fun! the only thing that frustrates me is the bug for Windows 7. I am hoping to be able to input much on this topic ASAP!

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting LintMan, reply 30

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13

Depends on the bug. 

If its' a cosmetic bug, then it won't get fixed until the public beta phase is over.

If it's a crash bug, it'll get fixed during the public beta.

If it's a performance/memory issue, it'll improve during the course of the beta.


What about user interface issues?  Please don't "save" these to be fixed after the beta ends!  The UI changes may not addres all the concerns or themselves introduce new problems.  It also wastes the tester's time as new people keep reporting the same issues and they get rehashed again and again on the forum.  Please please fix the UI during the beta, not after!

 

UI isn't a "bug".  We'll keep enhancing it between now, release and beyond.  

I wouldn't worry too much on UI. It's a high priority here and we're pretty unhappy with it.

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 35



UI isn't a "bug".  We'll keep enhancing it between now, release and beyond.  

I wouldn't worry too much on UI. It's a high priority here and we're pretty unhappy with it.

Thanks for the reassurance!

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Wait... What?!?!

There are more tech trees? I thought the 5 current were enough. Granted they do need a bit more filling out.

If I were making an educated guess, those are probably the fallen tech categories.

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sareln, reply 37

Wait... What?!?!

There are more tech trees? I thought the 5 current were enough. Granted they do need a bit more filling out.
If I were making an educated guess, those are probably the fallen tech categories.

It is, from the Empires preview. They do things differently, so they get a different set of tech trees (though they roughly map to the same five areas).

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 35

UI isn't a "bug".  We'll keep enhancing it between now, release and beyond.  

I wouldn't worry too much on UI. It's a high priority here and we're pretty unhappy with it.

Good to hear Froggie, because I don't really like the UI myself...can't wait to see the changes to the UI!

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 2

Enchantment slots, Champion ability trees, Equipping UIs, etc
YES!!!

I'm starting to wonder... how long did "building the engine" take, and how long does "making the game" take? I know you said something about the engine taking a lot of time to build, but I didn't expect it was spread out THAT way.

 

didnt expect such a quick response to this request. Really this was a big deal for me, glad to see that it was put in the game in just a few weeks.

Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Grove12345, reply 43
didnt expect such a quick response to this request. Really this was a big deal for me, glad to see that it was put in the game in just a few weeks.

I agree... very important!

Now that I've seen more about the modding focus of this game (which is great), I feel it is critical to have support of both spell and special ability slots on troops also.

At the end of the day, what makes monsters/troops interesting isn't the graphical model. Nor does HPs, Attack, Defense, Weapon Speed, Armor, and Movement Speed add enough to differentiate the troops.

The current system with "packs" is quite interesting, as well as custom weapons. What would make this amazing for the game and/or modding would be:

1) Allow up to about 4 slots per NPC, in addition to the item slots.

2) These slots could contains any of the following:

a) combat spell for tactical combat (could be once per turn, or limited to x per battle)

b) combat skill for tactical combat (could be once per turn, or limited to x per battle)

c) resistances to various weapon damage types/elements/statuses, etc. (these should ideally be nameable e.g. resistance to ice could be labeled "frostguard" or whatever)

I'd suggest that there be a flag to mark the above traits as inherent (meaning they cannot be removed from the creature) or instead for these to be added via the item system, so are changeable via the player via the Design option.

A new future tweak could be to add cool downs to a & b, in addition to above abilities.

With these tools, extremely interesting and deep creatures/troops/champions could be created. The fewer possibilities here, the more same-y the armies will feel (at least for me!)

It's quite possible that the above is already planned (how else could a fire dragon breathe fire or be resistant or immune from fire damage?) but since I see no trace of this in the beta so far, I thought I'd mention it.