Elemental: Beta 3 High Level Preview

imageI’ll be going into much greater detail of Beta 3 as we get closer. It’s scheduled for next week.

Let me first assure you that Beta 3 will NOT be very fun. I keep trying to warn people that there is a reason why Stardock betas are outlawed by the Geneva conventions. Survivors of previous Stardock betas can attest to this. The reason why our final games end up doing so well is because the beta process forces us to jettison weak and bad ideas prior to the game being unleashed on the public.

But if it makes you feel better, WE at Stardock are having a lot of fun. When the modding beta comes out, you guys will get to see why. Frankly, the modding tools in Elemental are dangerous, evil, and simply put, should be illegal.

But here are some highlights of what we plan to have in the public build of beta 3:

  • The Empires. The Empires will finally be in. That’s 5 new factions, 4 of which are made up of other races (non-men).  As one person observed, it’s not so much Kindoms vs. Empires but rather Men vs. Fantasy races. :)
  • All tech trees enabled. That means Diplomacy, Magic, Warfare, Civilization, Adventure, Imperium, Conquest, Sorcery, Domination, and Cooperation.
  • The HUD will be in. This is something we’ve been playing around with for awhile but didn’t want to put it in the public builds lest beta testers let us off the hook. We don’t want to use the HUD as a crutch to get us out of having to make the game visually intuitive.
  • Lots of new content will be in.
  • NPC AI will start to go in.
  • Monster AI will start to go in. 
  • Neutral Cities will be in.
  • Game Mechanic Changes. The Sovereign will be able to found a kingdom (1 city) but after that, only pioneers can build new cities. We definitely did not like the idea of your most powerful unit (sovereign) who can also scout also being able to found cities. It cheapens it and takes away the strategic danger of it. In short, we hated it.

Player suggested ideas going in:

We’re reading the forums and already some cool ideas have come up including Enchantment slots, Champion ability trees, Equipping UIs, etc.  How many of these will make it into Beta 3 versus Beta 3-A remain to be seen.

Regarding performance

One thing we are keeping an eye on is performance and memory. I.e. the more “stuff” we put in, the more CPU it’ll use and the more memory it’ll use. Thus, it is important for people to follow THE BETA GUIDE for reporting so we can get an idea of what thresholds we’re hitting.

BETA 4 not far behind

The only difference between beta 3 and beta 4 is opening up the modding tools and we are very anxious to do that sooner rather than later. So expect Beta 3 to be short and Beta 4 to be longer as a result.

We may (key word: may) allow users to create quests and submit them to be included with the game. Some of you may have noticed that user suggested NPCs are now in Beta 2-B.

STANDARD WARNING

Elemental is probably the first game we’ve had a beta of that was well known before the game was released. With Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations the beta testers were more “hard core” and I remember how those betas went (my team of therapists keep trying to get me to “move on”). Suffice to say, by the time we close the beta, MOST users will NOT be happy with it.  With Sins and GalCiv, terms like “broken”, “flop”, “suck”, “pink pony refuse” (I have no idea what that means but it sounded bad), “fail” were used.

In the first Galactic Civilizations beta (2003), the starbases were suggested by beta testers and didn’t make it into the public beta (imagine GalCiv without starbases). We ended up loving the idea so much we put a picture of a starbase on the box and implemented them after the public beta closed.

My point is, these betas aren’t here as demos or early access to “the game”. The betas exist to help make sure the final game is really good.

82,915 views 45 replies
Reply #1 Top

Thanks for the info!

**waits for people to start posting the game won't/can't be ready by launch**

Reply #2 Top

Enchantment slots, Champion ability trees, Equipping UIs, etc

YES!!!

I'm starting to wonder... how long did "building the engine" take, and how long does "making the game" take? I know you said something about the engine taking a lot of time to build, but I didn't expect it was spread out THAT way.

Reply #3 Top

Wow! That's a lot to look forward to testing.

Reply #4 Top

Looks great and sorry to tell you, I sometime have fun ;-), masochist as I may be

However, I see a great deal of focus on the gameplay mechanics on your post, which is vital indeed; but can't stop worrying about the big amount of glitch/bug/crash people are still experiencing on multiple systems. Testers are doing a good job reporting these problems, and folllowing your posting rules..

 

Anyhow,I know you do a great and hard job and wish you the best for the coming week! For the sake of all of us.

 

Kind regards,

 

Your testing slave

Reply #5 Top

Good to hear Frogboy! Seriously, all that stuff sounds damn good. (Tactical battles being high on my list.)

I'm also excited to hear about you really treating the Sovereign as a "Character" that were constantly enhancing. New Gear, equipment, and Spells.

Speaking of Spells, the Sovereign should start off with a battle spell. Even if it's pure Mana Fire. With the ability to use that mana fire through weapons in melee, (like Warlocks in 4th Edition D&D, who have Eldritch Blast, and with a feat can turn it into a melee attack for range purposes), but also let the weapons in question still be pretty cool, and have different properties.

Seriously though, a game with War and Magic, the King should start with free base spells, even if they are only tactical battle spells.

 

Reply #7 Top

Frogboy,

 

Will we be able to create custom factions in Beta 3?

If i'm not mistaken it was planned to be in the current beta build ( 2-B ) , but somehow it's not.

 

 

Reply #9 Top

Suffice to say, by the time we close the beta, MOST users will NOT be happy with it.  With Sins and GalCiv, terms like “broken”, “flop”, “suck”, “pink pony refuse” (I have no idea what that means but it sounded bad), “fail” were used.

It's space pony, not pink pony. Fail!  O:)

Reply #10 Top

When will the bugs be fixed, I keep seeing the same bugs in each new beta release?

Zero responses to reported bugs in the beta forum!

 

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 2

Enchantment slots, Champion ability trees, Equipping UIs, etc

YES!!!

I'm starting to wonder... how long did "building the engine" take, and how long does "making the game" take? I know you said something about the engine taking a lot of time to build, but I didn't expect it was spread out THAT way.

If making a video game is could be split into 100 "effort" units it would break down like this:

1. The Engine 50 points.

2. The Asssets 30 points.

3. The systems 15 points.

4. The game 5 points.

Where the game includes screens, rules, balance, mechanics, etc. that make use of the systems which use the assets that are then brought to the player by the engine.

The engine is done other than tuning.

The assets are done (though some music and cut scenes are still being made).

The systems are almost done (tactical battles, AI being the notable exceptions).

The game is about half done.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting xgojux, reply 7
Frogboy,

 

Will we be able to create custom factions in Beta 3?

If i'm not mistaken it was planned to be in the current beta build ( 2-B ) , but somehow it's not.

 

 

Yes.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting pad152, reply 10
When will the bugs be fixed, I keep seeing the same bugs in each new beta release?

Zero responses to reported bugs in the beta forum!

 

Depends on the bug. 

If its' a cosmetic bug, then it won't get fixed until the public beta phase is over.

If it's a crash bug, it'll get fixed during the public beta.

If it's a performance/memory issue, it'll improve during the course of the beta.

Reply #14 Top

I began taking a look a Sins after the beta closed but before the game had come out.  Most of the guys who were in the final beta seemed pretty optimistic to me, which was one of the reasons why I was so quick to buy the game.  While I haven't had as much time to play multi-player as I would like, I was very happy with Sins, and would recommend it to anyone interested in the genre.  I think I'll be happy with Elemental too.  Just can't expect a finished product when the beta closes in July.

Reply #16 Top

The Sovereign will be able to found a kingdom (1 city) but after that, only pioneers can build new cities.

Sweet.

Reply #17 Top

All my dreams are belong to you.

Reply #18 Top

This sounds so cool, especially about the Empires and the races!  :D  I'm dying to try them out. 

And you do have a very good way with words - I was LOLling several times reading that post!  :grin:  Can we get to know some more about EWoM and the Geneva Convention please!  :thumbsup:

Reply #19 Top

Very glad to see you like the idea of Champion/Sovereign ability trees.

 

Though not very surprised, as I'm sure you had it in mind one way or another, as MoM did it very well, and it makes leveling up addictive.

Reply #21 Top

if i look at the text i saw that are were more tech trees than i thought.
i always thought that it were just civilazation, warfare, magic, adventure and diplomacie or are the tech trees diffrent between the kingdom and empire.

Also a question is if there wil be a open beta?
i am looking at the videos of Gorstagg and if i look i am thinking of things to do but i can't because i am not allowed in the beta right now ^_^'

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Sir-Jack, reply 21
if i look at the text i saw that are were more tech trees than i thought.
i always thought that it were just civilazation, warfare, magic, adventure and diplomacie or are the tech trees diffrent between the kingdom and empire.

Also a question is if there wil be a open beta?
i am looking at the videos of Gorstagg and if i look i am thinking of things to do but i can't because i am not allowed in the beta right now

If you read closely it seems like the other 5 are just fallen equivalents of the ones we have. Sorcery = Magic, Cooperation = Diplomacy, etc. 

Reply #23 Top

BETA 4 not far behind

The only difference between beta 3 and beta 4 is opening up the modding tools and we are very anxious to do that sooner rather than later. So expect Beta 3 to be short and Beta 4 to be longer as a result.

We may (key word: may) allow users to create quests and submit them to be included with the game. Some of you may have noticed that user suggested NPCs are now in Beta 2-B.

Yay!!! That's the Best News I've heard All Week :) . Well Done.

P.S. on a side note, between yesterday's post and today's post you've said the word "intuitive" 3 times that I've counted. When Most Developers (Not You of course) say the word "intuitive" what they really mean is "We're going to dumb things down but make it look slick and shiny so you guys don't notice". Just so you aren't associated with the bunch of other slack-ass lazy Devs you might want to come up with a new term or catch phrase. Someone else pointed out the other day that "intuitive" was the new catch phrase for Devs these days and I'm inclined to believe them. You say the word "intuitive" almost as much as Scott says "at the end of the day". (just messin with ya Scott ;) )

Don't make me buy you guys a thesaurus. :P

Reply #24 Top


  it’s not so much Kindoms vs. Empires but rather Men vs. Fantasy races

aha, so the fantasy races are the bad guys and the humans are the good guys once again! I as a profound member of the alliance against stereotypic discrimination of fictional intelligent non human live forms (short AASDFINHLF) must protest here - this is racism in its most vicious way!

I thought you developers have learned from your flaws since warcraft orcs and humans - shame on you!

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 24

quoting post
  it’s not so much Kindoms vs. Empires but rather Men vs. Fantasy races


aha, so the fantasy races are the bad guys and the humans are the good guys once again! I as a profound member of the alliance against stereotypic discrimination of fictional intelligent non human live forms (short AASDFINHLF) must protest here - this is racism in its most vicious way!

I thought you developers have learned from your flaws since warcraft orcs and humans - shame on you!
I suggest a deep and serious read through the forums about this topic before writing that.