Just bought Sins - Trinity

well the base game is a great place to learn the basics, but entrenchment is excellent for learning mastery of the game and diplomacy is, well interesting

entrenchment allows you to fortify, turtle then learn each and every trick the Sins has to offer while vanilla (what we call the base game) forces you to attack more and sometimes you don't always figure out everything because you can't fortify as well

diplomacy increases the AI's abilities (enough to give newbies fits) and makes the pirates ultra nasty so don't jump in there yet until you are ready

I shouldve known after reading around and discovering sins supports modding that the base game would be referred to as vanilla, another game i play on pc is the same way heh.

So being as their isnt a set story per say then the main differences are pretty much what you listed. So i suppose the base version it is. Seems like everything is the same graphically and all that. So ill at least be sure to hit the tutorials in base Sins first. Wonder if the tutorials in entrencment, etc include the new features the packs offer.

Sounds like after playing around with the base my next stop and probably more longer area of play will be in entrenchment. Having extra defensive options sounds like it could be useful for a new player like myself. Ive heard and read how good the AI is supposed to be here so ill keep a bit of distance from the diplomacy pack for awhile.

Appreciate the fast response. Now if i can get xfire to recognize these ill be all set. I like tracking my game play time.

there are no tutorials in entrenchment or diplomacy, just the same as found in base

do feel free to ask any questions about the game, most here will answer nicely (no newbie bashers here, we flame them quickly)

also the AI cheats so stick with normal which doesn't cheat

Much appreciated, i just started up the basic tutorial now. Very nice graphical design too, especially zoomed all the way in.

Ill be sure to skim the manual and the site first before i ask to many Q's though. I want to at least say i did the tutorials and looked around the help stuff first.

one place described one of the features for entrenchment as having improved graphics. Is that actually true and if so does that mean they're only in entrenchment? If you happen to know anyway.

Any Entrenchment feature is automatically part of Diplomacy.  I wasn't aware of any graphical improvements.

If you need any help, feel free to make a post in the strategy section.

Thought it seemed like those 2 were kind of connected. If i just launched the Sins - trinity then i get options to go to either diplomacy or entrencment. if im in entrenchment i could switch to diplomacy but not the base game.

Also i fixed my xfire to recognize all 3 games. Now back to the tutorial. Great to see the community here seems pretty solid

in the change logs there were alot of optomization bits and pieces... no idea if they are expansion pack only, though.

ya, diplomacy's ai is signifcantly better than vanillas or entrenchements, although they still love to kill themselves on starbases. 

the cobalt sounds different in vanilla.  (didnt they go through like 3 versions on that for some reason?)

pirates are 1337 hax in diplo.

siege frigs are more powerfull in entrench and diplo

a few of the abilities are different from vanilla to entrench and diplo.

there are definatly differences besides the obvious expansion pack things.. but generally you really have to dive deep to find em.

Yeah, this game's community is still pretty good. Even when I'm not playing the game at the moment I still check the forums and help people and things lol.

Also, if you are still feeling overwhelmed at the depth of the game after the tutorials, you can play a game with just you (no AI opponents) just to get used things (I like to build/research everything before playing seriously). Also if you are playing diplomacy turn the pirates off! That will save you much frustration in trying to learn the game.

Anyways glad you got the game and I hope you enjoy it as much as I have (and continue to).

Thanx GoaFan, i just finished up the last of the 4 tutorials a bit ago and took a look at one of the small scale maps. Im going to wait until tommorrow to try a small game seriously though. I may have to try that no AI opponent thing. Will give me a chance to view the defensive structures available in the base game so i can slip over to entrenchment and see what it has to offer for additional units. Loving the graphics though, always find myself zooming into my capital ships to watch all the weaponry firing.

I suspect it'll take me some time to get the hang of it though, One of the reasons i havent been in EVE online seriously yet is because i want to make sure i can devote some hardcore time into learning everywhere. Sins will give me a vast space type game with economy management and combat on a fairly large scale but no rush to learn everything before my monthly sub is up haha. Looking forward to getting into a nice 1v1 with the AI this week.

on a minor note the fact this game has a random map generator was pretty much the selling point for me. ive come to be turned off from RTS's even if they have fun base management unless its got some serious replay value(random map/missiong generators)

Yup, at least 7 base random maps, a built in customized random map maker and an easy to use map designer (via the galaxy forge, which you can get in the downloads section) should make replay value a non-issue with this game, and that is before you factor in mods. Speaking of which, while I don't recommend most of them until you've learned the game, you might like to get one of the graphics mods as soon as you decide which expansion you are going to seriously start playing.

I havent even looked at ne of the mods. I generally dont mod ne game i play on pc to much just to avoid ne future... issues, but when i started playing M&B i found the mod community in that game to be amazing and the work they did was very impressive and made the game even greater.

After ive woken up a bit im going to get a battle started on one of the pre set small maps. Thinking ill play as tec. Probably set the Ai to  researcher or something to keep it off my back while i get a feel for the game hah.

the modding community here is also very well done

a mod to check out in the future would be Distant Stars

has some graphical and game balance changes that many have found enhances the gameplay

but if not no problem,

Just skimmed through the features in Distant Stars. It does sound pretty interesting. So it touched up some of the graphics to as well. Seems like it is packed with quite a few decent features and changes all in one mod. May be a decent one to start with.

For game settings, I recommend locked teams (if there's more than 1 AI), pirates off, and fast game-speed.  Once you move on to Entrenchment, you should turn on the "quick-start" option, which gives you all the things (scouts, capital shipyard, extractors) you would have built at the start of the game anyways.

It is a good mod, but at the same time any mod that changes gameplay might be bad to actually learning the game. That's why I recommended just a graphics mod (Like bailknight's ) because it just makes the game look better without changing any gameplay. But it's all up to you. Sins has a nice build in mod system for turning mods on and off, so it certainly isn't hard to go back and forth between with them.

yes highly recommend learning the game first, the gameplay on DS is a bit more advanced but definitely expands the way you play

and is quite nice to see caps actually become the behemoths that they should be in later stages of the game

also many of the planet types we incorporate are in Galaxy Forge and the random map generator so that also gets expanded, seems how that is a selling point for you

It's probably best to start off with Vanilla Sins so that you can learn the basics of the game--which is fleet v. fleet combat.  That is the core component of the game regardless of whether you are playing Entrenchment or Diplomacy, so it's a good idea to master that.

The Entrenchment expansion added starbases and a few other units to the game.  The starbases proved to be an excellent addition for humans v. humans games in online multiplayer.  However, some of the people who play only single player against the AI complained that the starbases made the game too easy because the AI doesn't know how to use them nor how to address enemy starbases.  The AI tends to commit suicide on upgraded starbases.

Diplomacy is a good expansion for the single player game and didn't add all that much for humans v. humans games.  It still has the starbases so the AI is probably just as susceptible to suiciding on them as in Entrenchment.  The benefit of Diplomacy is that it adds a bunch of new options for interacting with the AI.

There's probably more to learn in going from Vanilla to Entrenchment then from going to Entrenchment to Diplomacy.  (Am I wrong about that guys?)  Do note that after you get up to speed on Vanilla, if you have any interest in online multiplayer this might be a good time to consider coming online because the $4 Sins sale (two weeks leading up to Memorial Day) brought a lot of new people to the game.

Im thinking i will play a few maps full througho n base Sins first indeed. I played around with entrenchment a bit to build a starbase, but i think ill stat up a new map on the base version next time. Ill take a look at that graphic only mod sometime though it doesnt look like it'll work with the vanilla sins game, only entrenchment and diplomacy. ah well.

Guess ill start up a game in a bit here. Will be quite thankful of the save feature in a game like this where one map can go on for hrs and hrs and hrs lol.

cool man welcome to SoaSE!

good luck!

Aw man, was even lookin at the TEC laser beam visual mods and i cant use those on basic vanilla either lol. well shoot. All the neat ones, at least the ones that have been suggested here for me to check out only work on entrenchment and diplomacy. hah guess i need to at least get accustomed to the basics so i can switch over to those lol

if you want a good map for figuring your way around the tech trees and such "Systems Of War" is always a nice one, all the enemies are just 1 Sun away. Personally Culture is a method of victory I enjoy ^^ Advent make this kind of win possible . Aside from this, the Advent are heavily geared towards Strike craft and culture "The unity and anima" and such. The Tec have a higher economic standing than the others and a cheaper ship cost and with the right techs a fast producer of sed ships as well. The Vasari, I don't play as much, but lets call their tech tree, recycle friendly. Salvage enemies cap ships for resources, higher resource returns for scuttling(self destruction/dismantling) different things, and phase space manipulation makes quick movement possible, as well as their super weapon makes movement from a planet using a phase stabilizer to whatever planet you hit with it.  Anyway if your wondering I'm a Technology geared player ^^ but multi-player usually forces me to rush or be rushed so I don't get to take the time I'd like. But all around still fun.

If you ever pull of a culture victory you can probably have won the game an hour ago with a more military approach. Culture can do wonders economically and can be a constant nuance for your opponent, but the amount of cash, tech and most critically logistics space needed make this a novelty strategy at best.

Im going to be DLing and adding in the DS mod, i hadnt noticed at first it has included in it the graphics mod that was suggested here as well. I was wondering if since the DS mod has several smaller mods built in, will i be able to cycle off certain ones here and there in the MOD menu on Sins? Also as i havent tried any mods yet for Sins graphic or otherwise i kind of wanted to check out the TEC Laser as Beams mod created by SpotH3D. Will that work along with Bailknights graphics mod and/or the DS mod?

Edit:  well i seem to have a crash problem when i try enabling the DS mod(yes the checksum # matched) but i do seem to have been able to get Bailknights Graphics mod added in and enabled fine so im going to play some practice small map rounds and see how everything runs(shame it wasnt for vanilla sins but it shouldnt be to hard to adjust to the added features entrenchment brought in, i finished my first vanilla Sins game on a random small generated map earlier today from a game i started lastnite. Granted it was easy Economist AI with no pirate activity, but it still took foreve lol

@GoaFan77   Yeah it is, but if it's a larger map it can do a nasty number on extended system colonization ;p good for you bad for them. but yeah it really is a long game plan not a short one lol. Still, as advent it also does quite well for uncovering just about everything on the map.