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A walkthru of Beta 1Z

A walkthru of Beta 1Z

To recap:

Elemental is an upcoming turn-based strategy game set in a magical world that is recovering from a great magical battle known as the cataclysm. The world has been devastated and most of the magic of the world is gone.

Fortunately, a handful of beings have risen from the ashes with the ability to channel magic. These great Sorcerers are the sovereigns who must build new kingdoms (or empires) from the ground up.

When you start the game, there is only 1 person.

This is one of their stories.

Note: BETA 1 of Elemental strips out the graphics engine to allow us to focus purely on the game mechanics. The 3D engine will be added back into beta 3. NOTE that all these screenshots are works in progress and not representative of the final graphics.

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BETA 1 Game Play Example 

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Chapter 1: Of the migration

Procipinee is the only daughter of Emperor Amarian III. Like her father, she is a channeler – a sorcerer capable of casting spells of great power.

Amarian is himself the son of the evil Morrigan who had wrought great sorrow for the men of the East. Amarian has done his best to undo the damage but he and his line will always be tainted by Morrigan’s dark deeds.

Procipinee is unique amongst the sovereigns of Elemental in that she was born to rule. In this new world, however, she is an outcast from the other kingdoms of men.

 

imageAs ruler of the Kingdom of Pariden, Procipinee does enjoy some advantages. Pariden, being a direct line from the old Empire of men in the east, maintains the largest archive of lore giving her access to far more spells of power than her rivals.

Unfortunately, Pariden is also distrusted making diplomatic relations more perilous.

The long migration from the east left Procipinee’s people scattered but not gone.

Chapter 2: New Pariden

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Procipinee searched long and hard for a place to found her new kingdom. The world was desolate but channelers have a way of being able to see the potential of the land.

Seeing that the land in the area is potentially fertile, she casts the one spell that her father made her memorize: Restoration.

imageWith restoration, the land around her begins to bloom again. While it cost her a third of her life essence, it is her hope that her gift will encourage the dwindling populations of man to flock to her new city.

With the outpost of New Pariden founded, she begins to consier what to do next.

Nearby, the scattered remains of treasures, equipment and ancient lore from the cataclysm awaits. In addition, other beings of value explore the land as well…

image Old Myrimahus was a well known collector of magical artifacts. Unfortunately, Procipinee cannot recruit him as few men trust the line of Morrigan. She will endeavor to raise her persuasive abilities for the future.

 

 imageImmediately I am confronted with some decisions on how to build my city and where I should go. Procipinee’s royalty allows her to bring new people in faster but does she dare stay in town to do that?

While her royalty allows her to attract new citizens faster when she inhabits a town, her wandering spirit urges her to explore the area.

But first, New Pariden needs to get underway. 

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The first thing we build is a workshop.  This lets us get into the concept of city building. In Elemental, a city goes through 5 stages: Outpost, Village, Town, City, Metropolis.  These 5 levels matter a lot because many types of city improvements require a certain city level. The level also determines the number of a given improvement in many cases. For instance, our new outpost of New Pariden can only support 1 Workshop (hence the 0/1 at the top right).

My worksh0p provides 1 piece of material per turn.  Takes 2 turns to build and 10 gold to build and uses up 1 city tile. I’m going to build it on the north side of my city because I’m looking to cut off access to the east (I’ll show you what I mean shortly).

Procipinee begins exploring and finds a ring of agility:

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In the aftermath of the cataclysm, the world itself is filled with the trappings of the Titans of old who were vanquished in their final battle. Now it’s a bit of a race to find it all and claim it. Of course, there are many races taking place as we know that other Kingdoms of men are rising out there somewhere.

Chapter 3: Growing my Kingdom

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Here we are on turn 3.

My workshop is completed. I’ve started on a Command Post and blocked entrance to the east. This way, my opponents (and NPCs) can’t easily get in and grab the loot and such on the east.

On turn 5, I get my first technology breakthru.

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Researching in Elemental works a bit differently than we’ve seen in other games. The Kingdoms have 5 categories of research: Civilization, Magic, Adventuring, Diplomacy and Warfare. Each level in a given category costs more and more.  Technologies are labeled by green, yellow and red based on how likely they are to be available upon reaching the next level of technology. Green means it definitely will. Yellow means it might be available. Red means it probably won’t.

Upon achieving level 1 in civilization, I am presented with 4 technologies to choose from. 1 of them is solid green (farming). 2 of them are nearly green (civics and engineering) and one of them is yellowish (Mining). Right now though, I really want farming so that I can start to increase my population.

Ironically, I can’t yet build a farm because I need more materials. It takes 10 materials to build a farm and I only have 5 right now.

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I’m going to build a watch tower so that I can increase my vision of the area instead.

Chapter 4: The world beyond

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My Watchtower has vastly increased my line of sight (a bit too much, nerfing..).

But now I an see both the possibilities and the dangers of my world.

News of my new Kingdom has started to attract various notables including Eldmyre the Trader. Unfortunately, Procipinee will need to go up a level because she is distrusted thus making it harder to recruit.

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To go up levels, Procipinee will need some battle experience. First, she’s going to start a second city. This will use up another third of her life essence.  Essence is ones mana cap. She started with 15, now she has 5 left.  Essence can be transferred to Champions as well so that they can cast spells (and once they have essence, they too will be able to increase it as they go up levels).

Speaking of experience…

Those crates you see above provided me with a dexterity potion!

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Combat speed matters a lot. Each turn of combat is made up of 10 phases. Your combat speed determines how many attacks you get per turn. This matters a lot since Procipinee is pretty awful at combat.

I also lucked out because wheat farms are much cheaper than the general farm to build in terms of materials (i.e. the wheat is already there). So I quickly get Amarian (named after her father) up and going.

Chapter 5: Building a Kingdom

Thus far, Procipinee has founded two cities from the forsaken wastes of the post cataclysm world. By turn 11, there are a total of 32 people living in her two cities.

In Elemental, people matter. When you send people off to war, those people came from somewhere – your cities.

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I can train two different types of people from my 32 citizen kingdom. I have a Peasant who is just a random citizen who has been handed a club and a Pioneer. Pioneers are interesting because they can go out and (as their name suggests) settle on special tiles. They don’t bring in quite as much in terms of resources as if they were in a city proper, but they are absolutely crucial to building up an early economy.

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Chapter 6: Rats in the Ruins

Procipinee has traveled to an Inn on the western edge of her kingdom.

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What would Mincs do? Kind of a lowly thing for the Queen of Pariden right? Of course, Pariden has 36 people in it so she’ll need to keep some perspective.

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Upon choosing yes, a new tile appears displaying the object of my quest. Luckily, this simple adventure doesn’t involve me going very far.

Lucky me, I got the rats.

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Now to return it and get my reward (which better be good).

On the way back to the Inn that the distressed family was staying at, Procipinee has been studying the old manuscripts that were passed down to her from her father. She’s been focusing on rebuilding a civilization and finally made a breakthrough.

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I’m going to choose to have her breakthrough be engineering because we need to build a lumber yard so that we can get materials faster.

Now it’s time to decide what Procipinee and her small (but growing) team of loremasters are going to try to recover next.

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To get to level 3 of civilization, it will take 19 turns because Pariden is only producing 4 research per turn (3 by Procipinee herself and 1 by a study that has since been build in New Pariden). By contrast, going to level 1 in the other categories will only take 5 turns and let’s face it, some of those other techs matter.

With warfare, I could start to get some equipment for soldiers. With magic, I could start learning spells. With adventure, I could start recognizing better loot, encounter more powerful NPCs and access more interesting quests (not that rats are terrible but…well…yea, they’re terrible) and with Diplomacy I could start trading and negotiating.  Of course, so far, I haven’t encountered anyone so no point with diplomacy. I think I’ll go with magic.

The lady from the Inn gave Procipinee 250 gold for helper her with the rats. This is enough to start being able to train a small defense force and begin expanding into the west.

Chapter 7: Decisions

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On turn 20, I have two cities. My first city has been grown to cut off entry into that eastern valley. My second city (Amarian) is producing a great deal of food that is allowing expansion.

Now I need to make some tough choices.

First, while my kingdom has access to 13 food to feed its growing (now 41) population, I will soon need to start investing in roads (unfortunately, in beta 1, our road system is about to be tossed out in favor of a more fun way to implement roads that won’t show up until beta 3).

Second, my outposts are still small enough that they haven’t really attracted the attention of the various bandits or notable outlaws. Two cities averaging 20 people each is just not worth the effort. Especially since neither one is producing any money (Procipinee is the one generating the money through quests and abstracted trade of heirlooms and other deals).  I will soon be attracting unwanted attention and that means spending money on a defense force.

Third, I still haven’t found out where my opponents are.  For all I know, they’re coming in with an army (it would almost be certainly an army of peasants but still).

For now, Procipinee will put her focus on getting some magic going. She is a channeler and sorcery is her birthright.

Chapter 8: Arcania

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What use is being a Sorcerer if you have no spells? With Arcane Research, I can now get loremasters to start studying the ancient spell books. With any luck, soon Procipinee will be able to be taught some of the spells in there.

In the meantime, I will put some effort into warfare tech. If I’m going to clean out the west, Procipinee will need soldiers to help her and peasants won’t cut it.

 

I have also put a little time into warfare research and gotten better armor and weaponry.

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Since I am currently not mining any metla, I will stick with clubs for now even if it does wimp out my unit a bit.

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Now it is time to expand.

Chapter 9: We are not alone

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Lord Capitar’s emissary has made it to us. Capitar, unlike Procipinee, is a native of the west. Procipinee, with her father, had traveled the dangerous paths of the east to flee the rising hordes of the Fallen. Capitar, like the other western nobles, are suspicious of Procipinee because of her grandfather (Morrigan) who was the enforcer for the Titans during his time.

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Chapter 10: Wealth & Poverty

Capitar is going to be a major threat. Fighting wars means paying soldiers and that means having money.

The first step to do that is to build a palace so that I can declare a capital for my fledgling kingdom. I also need to start cleaning the west so that I can safely send out pioneers.

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After the battle, Procipinee has leveled up.

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I ultimately decide to put the points into essence so that she can build cities and has more mana available.

 

Chapter 11: Moving out

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With two arcane labs, Procipinee learns Teleport. This is a very useful spell because with it, she and her army can zip around anywhere in friendly territory.

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The Kingdom of Altar has finally arrived to try to wipe out my capital city of Amarian. Luckily, they fail thanks to my soldier being far better equipped than their peasant duo.

But I definitely need to get better stuff and I need to start connecting my cities with roads to increase my resources. With that in mind, I found a new city in the north, Royeker next to a metal deposit. The time to get new technologies is starting to become fairly painful since I’m still only producing 5 research per turn in my kingdom. But at least now we can get some metal and have some superior soldiers.

The problem with roads (in beta 1 anyway) is they cost a lot to build but that’s another story.

At turn 100, here is how things look.

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The nice thing is, with teleport, Procipinee can teleport anywhere within friendly territory.

With metal, now I can build better units.

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However, I may have waited too long.

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Lord Relias along with a party of soldiers is coming.

Yea, that’s going to be the end of me I’m afraid.  I dithered too much.

Epilogue

So what game improvements we learned here?

Lots.

First off, soldiers cost too much. Right now, they’re 1 gold per turn per unit. 

Let’s look at my civilization just as Lord Relias and his 3 goons took me out.

  • Population: 305 citizens
  • Income: 8.0g per turn
  • Expenses: 3.0g per turn (3 soldiers)

Lord Relias and Altar’s situation was basically the same except he had more soldiers.

With a population of 305 people, I should be able to support easily 30 soldiers.  So we need to do some balancing there.

Moreover, I’m spending too much time building housing still which also eats up valuable tiles. In my build an outpost gets 16 tiles, a village 24.

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But I’m using 8 – a third of my tiles – on huts and that’s not enough to get my city to level 3 unless I upgrade them to houses which would require 27 more turns which is an eternity.  If I wasn’t using so many tiles on huts I’d be building more research buildings which would help that.  So huts need to house more people so that fewer need to be built.

There’s plenty of other stuff but to put things in perspective, Beta 1Z is the first beta of Elemental that can actually be played as a game. There’s still a lot more to go.  Pacing matters.

BTW, in the comments section someone noted how closely I had built my cities together. You can’t connect cities into one big city (there’s always a full 4x4 tile between them but they were right.

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This is what the above screenshot looks like with the graphics engine on. It really highlights what too many huts looks like (cities look like a bunch of straw from all the huts).

248,307 views 141 replies
Reply #101 Top

Another thing I just thought of is food and taxes. First off, if you have 4 people working a farm, they should probably start out producing maybe 6 food (4 for their own consumption, plus enough food for 2 other people). As farming becomes more efficient, you will require fewer farmers to support your larger population. This makes farming technologies meaningfully important.

Taxes need to be applied on a kingdom-wide population basis, not on a city basis. People on farms need to be taxed, too, and since they would not be counted in city population, that means taxes have to be kingdom-wide. Buildings in a city generating extra revenue would just be from the fact that they have higher market activity which is taxed.

Reply #102 Top

Quoting egable, reply 98



Now, you could compromise and do 1-week turns. At 1-week turns, it takes 936 turns for your child to come of age. But, then your number of miles traveled per turn is 140 in friendly territory or 70 in enemy/neutral territory. Each tile could then be a 5-mile square. Movement points would be 28 tiles in friendly territory and 14 tiles in enemy/neutral territory. Of course, at this scale, you still don't have cities showing up on the main map or blocking movement of units. If you make the turns one week, then you need to have the tiles as half a mile and do 280 tiles of movement in friendly territory or 140 tiles of movement in enemy/neutral territory.

 

With tiles so small, movement would appear more analog than digital. That is, movement on the map would appear to flow smoothly and paths would appear more curved. Armies could end up taking up several tiles on the map. You could also make an army camp and it would really appear on the map. When the army goes to 'camp' mode, it would spread out to take up even more tiles because of the extra space required for all the tents and fires. It would be a pretty impressive site.

 

It also just occurred to me that some people might try to use such high movement points to do "whack-a-mole" type tactics where they attack anything that is undefended each turn. Except, this can be mitigated by some basic automation in army defense. Assume for a moment that you have an army at a fort which is there to defend your countryside. They pretty much just sit there. When they hear of an approaching force, they ride out to meet the force and attack it. The same mechanic can work in this game when units have a high number of movement points. If you have an army that has leftover movement points, it should be able to receive word of an approaching force and ride out to meet that force. If the force is not attacking anything, your army should continue to sit where it's at. If the force actually attempts to attack something and that something is within half the movement points remaining from your army, then your army will intercept the attack. The idea is that a messenger would arrive with news of the impending attack with enough time for your army to reach the attacker. Maybe some units could have stealth and have a chance to attack without detection to make things interesting. But this would let your armies continue to control your countryside. Border areas would be under the greatest threat just like in real life. When the army intercepts an attack, it would use up those movement points. It would only be able to intercept another attack if the new attack occurred within half of its remaining movement points after intercepting the previous attack.

This approach also makes having armies stationed on defense more meaningful, and adds new tactics in terms of whether to keep your armies at home to defend your land or whether to ride out to war to conquer your neighbor or whether to try to do both.

Reply #103 Top

I have a n00b lore question...how did Procipinee become a channler? This post almost makes it sound like she became a channler because her father was. But yet, when we have kids...they are just mere mortals. What am I missing here? Thanks!

Reply #104 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 84
stager: yes. There will be a pacing option but it'll be different than what we've done in the past. You'll be able to change it mid game back and forth to suit yourself (kind of like in Sins where you can hit + or -).

I'd be interested to hear what options there are for scaling, as I pretty much always choose the longest options available. In the remake of Colonisation the options to scale went up to 'Marathon' setting but the scale really wasn't that extensive so I hope there's options to play true epic-length games that can last days, nay, weeks.

Reply #105 Top

Quoting leeboy26, reply 104

Quoting Frogboy, reply 84stager: yes. There will be a pacing option but it'll be different than what we've done in the past. You'll be able to change it mid game back and forth to suit yourself (kind of like in Sins where you can hit + or -).

I'd be interested to hear what options there are for scaling, as I pretty much always choose the longest options available. In the remake of Colonisation the options to scale went up to 'Marathon' setting but the scale really wasn't that extensive so I hope there's options to play true epic-length games that can last days, nay, weeks.

I also hope there are ways to do this, with one exception. If we can make a game last that long, then everything needs to scale accordingly. For example, turns need to reflect a certain passage of time such as a week or a day or a month or a year. Movement needs to reflect the same sort of passage of time as the turns. Build time needs to also reflect the same sort of passage of time, as does tax income and research.

I do not think turns should be longer than 1 month for fast games. Otherwise, you get weird things coming up like the time it takes to build defenses verses the number of times an opponent could attack you while you are building them. With turns of a year, everything would take at least a year to complete and based on movement scaling, someone could attack you a hundred times in that time where if turns were 1 week, you might have the defenses you need to fend them off fast enough that they are only able to attack you once or twice before you get them.

I would love to have the game last a long time, but at the same time, there needs to be enough stuff to do to keep in interesting when it lasts that long. If there are lots of quests that you can go on and the land is large enough and the game does not get bogged down as it drags on, then it is fine. For example, in Sins of a Solar Empire, if you make a large map so that the game lasts a long time, then all the refinery ships and trade ships and fighters get so numerous that the whole thing grinds to a crawl so it takes forever to do anything. In Civilization and Gal Civ, the same effect can be seen where, as the game drags on, it takes longer and longer to calculate everything when you hit 'Next Turn'. I think a lot of it has to do with poor AI algorithms. One of the worst, I think, is the algorithm used to calculate the quickest/most optimal path to a destination. That algorithm gets used so many times by so many different things that it needs to be absolutely as fast as possible.

Reply #106 Top

Quoting egable, reply 102


It also just occurred to me that some people might try to use such high movement points to do "whack-a-mole" type tactics where they attack anything that is undefended each turn. Except, this can be mitigated by some basic automation in army defense. Assume for a moment that you have an army at a fort which is there to defend your countryside. They pretty much just sit there. When they hear of an approaching force, they ride out to meet the force and attack it. The same mechanic can work in this game when units have a high number of movement points. If you have an army that has leftover movement points, it should be able to receive word of an approaching force and ride out to meet that force. If the force is not attacking anything, your army should continue to sit where it's at. If the force actually attempts to attack something and that something is within half the movement points remaining from your army, then your army will intercept the attack. The idea is that a messenger would arrive with news of the impending attack with enough time for your army to reach the attacker. Maybe some units could have stealth and have a chance to attack without detection to make things interesting. But this would let your armies continue to control your countryside. Border areas would be under the greatest threat just like in real life. When the army intercepts an attack, it would use up those movement points. It would only be able to intercept another attack if the new attack occurred within half of its remaining movement points after intercepting the previous attack.

This approach also makes having armies stationed on defense more meaningful, and adds new tactics in terms of whether to keep your armies at home to defend your land or whether to ride out to war to conquer your neighbor or whether to try to do both.

It would be even cooler if we could have scout units posted by our outlying areas and they are required in order to get notification of an impending attack. Basically, as long as they have movement points left in their turn, they scout 1/4 of the way out of their movement points remaining and if an army crosses that 1/4 movement point threshold, then the scout can take the 3/4 movement points it has from the location of where it would see the army and head for reinforcements. It would make an estimation of the attacking army size based on the scout's level. So, an expert scout would probably have a +/- 2.5% margin of error, next down would be 5%, then 10%, then 20%, then 33% or something like that. The scout's guess would be a random number generated between that margin of the actual attacking force size and it would use that guess to decide where to go for reinforcements. So, if the scout is in range to two friendly armies that are of different sizes who can both reach the scout's outpost that is being attacked, then the scout decides based on the size of the armies it can reach and its estimation of the attacking force size. So, if the scout underestimates the attacking force by 33%, the scout may show up where you have a small fighting force which is not sufficient to repel the attack. But since that is where you get the alert, you can only defend with that army if you choose to defend at all. If the scout overestimates the size by 33%, it may show up where you have a large force and you may over-defend the attacked location and then be unable to defend another location that is attacked later because you already committed the larger force to a smaller foe. At the end of the battler, you must still manually move your army back to its outpost/camp and move the scout back to the spot where it was stationed.

The scout will only be sent to the friendly army if the opposing army attacks or tries to pillage or something else hostile. But the scouts movement towards the friendly army must be done with 3/4 of its movement points from where the army crossed the 1/4 movement point boundary of the scout.

Reply #107 Top

Quoting CapnWinky, reply 103
I have a n00b lore question...how did Procipinee become a channler? This post almost makes it sound like she became a channler because her father was. But yet, when we have kids...they are just mere mortals. What am I missing here? Thanks!

Channelers can embue other Hero's with some of their Essence, while Family Members, in this case, seem to have some innate magic abilities allowing them to also channel and cast Magic.

Reply #108 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 84
stager: yes. There will be a pacing option but it'll be different than what we've done in the past. You'll be able to change it mid game back and forth to suit yourself (kind of like in Sins where you can hit + or -).

Pacing option? Hm, this sounds a bit weird to me, but maybe it will be a helpful feature. We shall see.

Reply #109 Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 107



Quoting CapnWinky,
reply 103
I have a n00b lore question...how did Procipinee become a channler? This post almost makes it sound like she became a channler because her father was. But yet, when we have kids...they are just mere mortals. What am I missing here? Thanks!


Channelers can embue other Hero's with some of their Essence, while Family Members, in this case, seem to have some innate magic abilities allowing them to also channel and cast Magic.


Right I understand the hero part...but why does Procipinee have innate magic because of her bloodline but are children are just mortals...(no magic/not living longer lives). Not complaining but was curious why she was the exception to the rule.

Reply #110 Top

Quoting strager, reply 17
What does Seamanship give you? I have a different post on a similar subject, but I was curious what the Naval System was like.... Are we going to be able to colonize islands, other continent's, etc? Or is everything going to be on 1 landmass? If we are going to have a real naval system can we design our own boats like we do units?

 

EDIT:

 




Quoting Frogboy,
reply 15
BTW, if anyone is thinking the cloth map is ugly, it was actually a compromise.

I wanted Beta 1 to look like this (seriously):









 

Is that from The Magic Candle? I know I've seen that game somewhere before....

Almost positive that screenshot is Ultima 3.  It's definitely an Ultima game though, not Magic Candle.

Reply #111 Top

Quoting CapnWinky, reply 109



Quoting John_Hughes,
reply 107



Quoting CapnWinky,
reply 103
I have a n00b lore question...how did Procipinee become a channler? This post almost makes it sound like she became a channler because her father was. But yet, when we have kids...they are just mere mortals. What am I missing here? Thanks!


Channelers can embue other Hero's with some of their Essence, while Family Members, in this case, seem to have some innate magic abilities allowing them to also channel and cast Magic.


Right I understand the hero part...but why does Procipinee have innate magic because of her bloodline but are children are just mortals...(no magic/not living longer lives). Not complaining but was curious why she was the exception to the rule.

The best thing, perhaps.

Play a new game. Get married. Have a child. (

Select the child and t

That's where it is at with that, best I know.

 

Reply #112 Top

Quoting CapnWinky, reply 109

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 107


Quoting CapnWinky,
reply 103
I have a n00b lore question...how did Procipinee become a channler? This post almost makes it sound like she became a channler because her father was. But yet, when we have kids...they are just mere mortals. What am I missing here? Thanks!


Channelers can embue other Hero's with some of their Essence, while Family Members, in this case, seem to have some innate magic abilities allowing them to also channel and cast Magic.


Right I understand the hero part...but why does Procipinee have innate magic because of her bloodline but are children are just mortals...(no magic/not living longer lives). Not complaining but was curious why she was the exception to the rule.

 

Not sure but I'm guessing both became channeler at the same time (her and her father) - remember she was 8 years old when the titans fell.... maybe she was near her father when he absorbed the magic (or however he became a channeler)

Reply #113 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 108



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 84
stager: yes. There will be a pacing option but it'll be different than what we've done in the past. You'll be able to change it mid game back and forth to suit yourself (kind of like in Sins where you can hit + or -).



Pacing option? Hm, this sounds a bit weird to me, but maybe it will be a helpful feature. We shall see.

I think by "Pacing Option" Frogboy is talking about game speed. In Sins hitting the + or - keys adjust game speed.

Earlier in the post he mentioned Pacing Option when referring to the growth and peasants needed in Huts to increase city sizes. In that case I think he meant Pacing as referring to a balance issue. Adjusting how many people can be in a Hut and then raising it by the same number across the board for other housing forms will effectively increase the speed at which you can Upgrade your cities. (also increasing population growth with this helps too)

Reply #114 Top

I believe there aren't much to discuss until more is known about pacing option.  From Brad's simple 1 liner, it can mean anything.


So far the house building seem boring and repetitive.  In the OP, Frogboy provide a reason to build more and more houses/huts.  You need to build more houses to get higher city level.  The only incentive to avoid building more is that they costs material and tile space.


In OP, 27 turns later 8 huts are upgrade to houses, Brad suddenly find that only 6 houses is required for City lvl 3.  He will then have incentive to free up 2 tiles previously occupied by huts.   Bouldozing is bad, bad in terms of micromanagement.


2nd issue related to current housing.  Assuming hut -> houses costs 10 unit of stone.  And you have 2 cities totalling 10 huts.   You have stockpiled 80 stone, and no more stone income.  Brad mentioned there will be auto-upgrade, how will this auto-upgrade work in this scenario?    AI pick 8 huts to upgrade?  Player picks 8 huts manually?  It won't got upgraded at all?   And what if I don't want to use that 80 stone to upgrade, I want to use those to build my new catapult?


Maybe Brad have all this covered, and I am eager to know.

 

Reply #115 Top

Speaking of the auto-upgrade, when you research the tech to upgrade housing, it only applies to Huts/Houses/etc that are already built, and doesn't seem to carry over to future buildings.

Edit:  I've confirmed that this is just me being a moron, disregard this post.

Reply #116 Top

Ok so i've installed Havok (just want to toy around with it while waiting for the crash fix build of Elemental) and there doesn't seem to be an executable for it.... there is a debugger, but that's it.... Anyone know where to get some documentation for it?

Reply #117 Top

Access block ftw. :P

Reply #118 Top

I rather like the cloth world map with the lead figures.  Will you keep this graphics mode as an option in the retail release??? please.

 

-ampoliros5

 

Reply #119 Top

I rather like the cloth world map with the lead figures. Will you keep this graphics mode as an option in the retail release??? please.

The cloth map is the "tactical view" of the game. It is the map at max zoom out.

Reply #120 Top

I believe that in the final game when you zoom fully out you will see the cloth map mode.

 

 

Reply #121 Top

Quoting Peace, reply 119

I rather like the cloth world map with the lead figures. Will you keep this graphics mode as an option in the retail release??? please.
The cloth map is the "tactical view" of the game. It is the map at max zoom out.

Strategic, not tactical.

Reply #122 Top

If the limited edition includes an optional pre-ultima 5 style interface I will buy 4 copies. Not all for me but 4 sales is 4 sales. :-P

Reply #123 Top

I rather like the current build of the game, in its most generic sense.

What I mean by that, is that build-times seem appropriate, build costs are (some-what) decent, and Huts, Houses, and Villas are perfect.

Food is perfect, Global economy is near perfect, The way Iron and Forges work together is perfect. Im curious as to Quarries though ... it "frightens" me.

Also, its kind of silly that Advanced mining unlocks quarries. Just have Mining unlock Quarries and have Advanced Mining Unlock Mines.

If you have to, rename mining to Masonry and rename Advanced mining to Mining.

Also, a few buildings are currently useless ... namely Banks, Tax Offices, Estates, Mansions, Slums, and Theaters. I can understand Pubs only being 1 prestige due to "theoretically" attracting Heroes ... however Theaters providing only 1 prestige? Weak.

Reply #124 Top

Just downloading it now, but from the look of it and what I have read I wonder:

Whether the buildings are too large in scale to the rest of the map.  Hence why one city gets too close to another.

I dont know that that is realistic.  I liked MOM in the way they did it.  They had different relative sizes and icons for the different sized towns.... perhaps you could zoom in to it, but still see roughly what it looks like on the normal map.... Just a thought, and as I said, I am 30mins from seeing the beta.

Also I think as previously mentioned that cities should offer significant benefits in defence early on (and later, but less so comparatively).  This stops the early Zerg method from working too well.  Balance is needed I guess.  Maybe increase the defence of soldiers stationed in there by 2, and perhaps allow citizens to fight as previously mentioned.... that would have to scale poorly with size though.... so at level 1 a city could have a militia equivalent to 1 soldier, and city size 2 - 2 militia etc....

Other than that I am a big fan, and have been following closely for a while.

Reply #125 Top

I have found that, while at first the spaces seems tiny, you soon find out that Cities become more reasonable. Or maybe it just shows in my play because I am deathly afraid to "connect" my cities for fear of Shenannigans.

That being said, simply having an invisible wall where there will always be at least one square in-between your cities would be "ok" ... however you have to realize, that the Buildable Radius grows dramatically faster than your available squares. meaning that you City can have almost any size you want it to have ... in general it form fits around the obstacles and the resources in order to get all the buildings it needs.

Its important to build a "specialist" city away from resources so that it has maximized buildable space. This means that your Specialized city will probably be AT LEAST your 3rd city, since the first two are almost always to gather resources.

You'll probably end up building 3-4 cities using essence ... and then any further cities will probably be built on revived land (if your like me you won't have any essence left over).

However, once magic becomes more important, I will buy points of essence instead of Points in HP and Combat speed, so in the end I still have my combat effectiveness, and the essence I use on cities. It will just depend on how evolved the combat system becomes (how well it integrates battle magic) on wether I store any essence/ buy more essence frequently, or if I stick to the good ole HP + Combat Speed.