Sadly, this is what it will be like for everyone sooner than anyone realizes (unless you get your ass elected to Congress or manage to remain at least somewhat wealthy).  The bureacratic inertia & obfuscation that develops in these 'systems' does as much as anything, if not more, to frustrate actual delivery of care that anyone would care to call 'good'.  Some people seem to think making everyone suffer equally is utopia.  There's no such thing as an adequate 'safety net' to them.  The very notion of a 'safety net' is anathema, because it implies that some people don't need one, which can't possibly be 'fair'.

I won't get into an argument here about it, but the assertion that people die 'directly attributable' to the lack of insurance is a myth - a 'correlation' proselytized as a cause-effect relationship by a group with an ideological agenda, bought into by those sharing that agenda.  And it's a bit disingenuous even if true - people will continue to die, even with Obamacare, and we'll be reading soon enough how many thousands of those deaths occurred because we don't tax ourselves enough, or spend enough, or spend it in the right way or at the right time, or that they wouldn't be dying if we had more 'oversight' by some or other understaffed bureau, or if we weren't wasting so much on the elderly's last years of life.  You can bet the farm on it.  These people believe you can't have too much government.

We've seen a microcosm of the future with the Medicaid equivalent here in Arizona - every year the paper runs a series of horror stories about the inadequacy of some aspect of Medicaid services, especially mental health care.  There follows, sure as night follows day, the obligatory government investigation & re-awarding of contracts & we start the cycle all over again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I've also practiced in both the VA and military systems where everyone 'has insurance' - unless you're a disabled combat vet needing state of the art prosthetics & rehab, you don't want anything to do with either.

So to those who so ardently wish for universal single-payor health care I suggest caution - you may get what you wish for and find it wanting, at which point your only alternative will be to get your ass rich.  Which, thanks to the 'help' of our isolated & insulated politicians, you won't be able to do so easily.

Sgt Arms of congress and capitol police have found no concerted effort nor did the police find anyone that did this. In fact if you watch the whole news story the congressman in question could not definitely identify this person. How about death threats to republican Congressman Kantor, his office fired at in  Virginia because he is Jewish and a Republican. Just how many have been arrested at teaThe parties across this country? How many have arrested when the G8 meet in USA those that protest at meetings on the left are more ;ikely to be prone to violence than the tea party people who come from all walks of life

You are once again sadly misinformed, or just capable of handling facts.  Auto insurance is not "mandated" as this is.  Any American, and a great portion do - choose not to have automobiles nor drive.  Regardless, auto insurance laws are to protect other drivers, so it is a pointless comparison to make.

Under this healthcare trap, every American citizen will be required by law to purchase health insurance or be fined.  You can't just choose not to have it.  You have to!

See the difference?

I'm sure if I spend but 10 minutes on the internet I can find tons of progressives inciting violence against conservatives.  Your argument is moot and weak.

As before, polling on parts of a 2600+ page bill is different than the entire boat-load that was passed through.  Think man!

Haaaha.  I'm sure you get all your "news" from the Obama-loving media too.  Silly.

Ever the master of the irrational non-sequitor.

Would hardly be the first time.  A Congressman being a liar, that is.

There is no credible evidence from a peer-reviewed journal that proves his claim to be true, so I don't believe him.

This whole thing really does belong on JoeUser, you know. (And that's a general "you". Whever I'm posting below: don't take it personally)

I guess the fact that I earn more than you yet I don't begrudge that some of my tax money goes to help others that are not as well off really burns your ass.

Well too bad for you.

Here's breaking news, not everyone in the world agrees with you. In fact you're a *minority*. Deal with it.

That's why the teabaggers are so angry. They yearn for the days of "when you're white, you're right". Too bad for both of you that those days are long gone and being white isn't an automatic guarantee of success. I guess those teabaggers that are poor are so because they are both stupid *and* lazy just like Ayn Rand teaches us.

Your premise is your conclusion.  Makes no sense & does not address what 'trying' means.

Interesting that this has escaped discussion so far.

It is on JU, a consequence of the forums' cross-pollenating design.

obiwan, you are a complete and utter fool. keep watching beck and you'll continue to be lost.

regarding the black congressmen and their so-called lieing: do you doubters believe cantor and his tales of threats because he is jewish? i have no reason to doubt the man. there are idiots out there who would do such a thing. there are idiots who would use the 'n' word when speaking to or about a black person, too. i have enough faith in each of these congressmen, even though i'm a complete 180 regarding cantor's political beliefs, to believe their accusations. neither of them have any reason to lie about being threatened or called derogatory names. there are idiots on both sides who will and have engaged in civil unrest or threats.

You always seem to bring race into an issue, makes me wonder who really has a problem with race.

I think what's funny is that you would believe a politician.  As before, there is NO proof of any of your allegations.

Thanks for the karma, but it appears all your knowledge of the Tea Party movement came from Keith Olbermann.  Why do you find it necessary to make it about race?

You also seem to know what others think, what their motives are, what they earn, what they envy, and that they should all get along on whatever you choose to get along on.  Quite the All Seeing Eye you got there.  And quite the respect for others' views.

Ah yes, when a progressive is losing their argument they resort back to the tried method of insults.  Shame on you sir.

I don't know if Cantor was telling the truth, but I believe there is evidence of a shooting at his office.  Why?  Evidence.

You have nothing to backup the allegations of racism and you know it.  Many videos and not one can confirm their story.  They are liars.

I love these Catch-22 moments - if he releases the emails & proof of the bullet he'll be accused of 'fanning the flames'.  Clyburn, on the other hand, has no evidence to release.

It's getting a little warm in here... Mumbles, I think this post may be heading in the direction you said it might.  That's a shame.

Get a grip.  This is nothing.

You get a grip.  This post is going downhill.  Nobody can have a debate on here without calling each other this or that or dragging out party affiliation and whatnot.  Bunch of children.

The irony in that is just too funny.  To clarify, the repartee in this thread has been rather benign so far, especially considering the title of the article.

So if this thread gets banished to JU, the people on JU would hardly notice the difference. The forum it was contained in would change from the Off-topic forum to the Politics forum or whatever but any new replies would still continue to bump the thread to the top of the recent post list on JU.

However if the thread does get moved to the Politics thread it would suddenly disappear from about 10 of Stardock's other sites, predominately game sites, the only sites the Politics forum is visible from are JU and the PoliticalMachine both of which are virtual ghost towns these days.

The real difference in regards to the thread is two-fold. For one the traffic would go way down since instead of getting traffic from 11 sites the thread would be getting traffic from only two low traffic sites. Secondly the distribution of the *kinds* of folks that would read the thread would change dramatically and far to the right.

Think of it like the Democratic Underground, the DailyKOS, Huffington Post and World Net Daily were all linked together and when a post got obnoxious then it was banished to World Net Daily. That's what it would be like except JU is further to the right than World Net Daily. There are very few liberals on JU on a constant basis. Any liberals that stay there on any consistent basis do so to fufill some deep seated masochistic desire for abuse. If you're liberal and you're unwilling to be a doormat then you'll find yourself very unwelcome, very quickly on JU.

Here ya go..... a bit of tongue-in-cheek

Personally, I think Obama's bill didn't go far enough and should have covered things like government run brothels.

Why not???  One's sexual health is part of health, is it not??  So gov't run/monitored brothels would help to keep a lot of folks happy... not to mention safer from STD's...

... and if it gets passed in the States, (and it'd truly stir the pot) we'd eventually have it here in Oz as well.

for some it is. to ignore the fact that racism is a part of the retoric against the President is quite foolish. fox news has bantered around the words of "progressive" and "social justice" which to me are just buzz words for some whites to get uppitty. and yes, I do believe that fox news is knowingly playing the race card.