*Sigh*
Must I get involved? I guess so...
first: Play this in the background while reading
The concept of "ownership" is one of the most crucial that we have. If nobody owned anything, nobody would take responsibility or care for any of the "shared" property. Note public areas, such as parks and restrooms, how quickly they decay into filth and disrepair. Then note private property, and how it's almost always crisp and clean, thanks to the pride of the owner(s). People also couldn't live without a leader. Without someone to guide them, most people would lose their way and commit crime, do drugs, among other things, just to find a purpose. Religion; for example. Religion exists for the sole fact that mankind can ask the question, "Why?". And since we cannot answer that question in its entirety, we need to confirm our existence, our perception of reality. So, most people go to religion for this. Similarly, if there is no such thing as "Human Nature" explain why we love, why we hate, why we antagonize and why we have pride. Human Nature is a bizarre and misleading term for what it really is, but IMO Human Nature is just a lazy man's way of explaining why we have emotions and subconscious thought while other organisms, even sentient ones, seem to feel only pain and joy. I'll admit that I have yet to see, hear or know of the Venus Project, but based on what I can gather, it's for creating a utopian society. Well, for starters, in a utopian society, there is NO culture. Why? Because every culture has it's own opinion upon various things, and not everyone will ever agree completely upon anything. Therefore: the only way to achieve the utopia that you seek, the "civility", per-se is to remove from each individual, completely, thier individuality, who they are and why they think they're there.
Xer0 \^/
Very interesting points Xer07 
Let me start by saying that, you all neglect 1 important thing: You say that nobody would take responsibility or care....and stuff like that, Whiskey said there would be conflict...blah blah blah. The question you need to answer yourselves, is: Would I do any of these things?
Would you kill someone just because he pissed you off, Xer0? No you wouldn't. Then why would someone else do it? Because they are corrupt? There would be no corruption if you go up to the point where we can create that kind of society.
About culture, basically there would be no cultures or there would be 1 single culture all around the world if you prefer that definition. Collective consciousness. Utopian society? Hmm...yes and no. A Utopian society is a society where everything is perfect, and all people are happy. Well this could be near perfection at the best possible scenario. No perfection can be ever achieved in everything related to human beings. We cannot be perfect, but we can get close to that.
About human nature, you are obviously confusing it with feelings or emotions, if you prefer. "Human Nature", is usually regarding the predisposition that humans have, about good or evil, character type, good or bad habits, etc etc. This is a false statement, made to simply divide people even more, by creating the illusion that we are born "bad people" or "good people". It is usually explained through DNA, like we have some sort of evil genes, that makes us killers, thieves, rapists, etc. I read somewhere that some "scientists", if you can call them that, found that there is a "smoking cigarettes" gene, in the human DNA. I first thought it was a joke, but when I saw they were from a big University (don't remember the name atm), I felt sorry for them. What else would they think to make us believe whatever they want? Science has proved many times, that human DNA doesn't contain that kind of genes, but merely genes that define our appearance, sometimes genes that may cause a disease in a certain age, stuff like that.
About taking care of public restrooms, parks, etc: *SIGH* Please Please *morpheas is down on his knees* don't make me repeat myself again..... 
Ok.
/repeat There would be no human labor. People would not clean parks, roads, sit behind desks to serve the public's demand, nothing of all this. We HAVE the technology to do ALL of this with machines. From simple machines at start, we would go to more sophisticated, improving our technology constantly, and reaching a point where every city would be clean, bright and shiny as new. /end repeat
/repeat For the final LAST TIME: If any of you are too damn lazy to read or watch a video about the whole concept, please, oh please don't make me write huge posts to explain every single detail to you 
/end repeat
There is a solution to everything, the only thing we lack right now, is the WILL to do it.
Random thought: When I once mused on the concept of heaven, I was struck by a thought. Everything is perfect. In this case, what do you do? If I was in world where I was completely content, what would I do next? I would get bored, and I believe I can say the same for most. There would need to be something new, but there wouldn't be. I would not be content with the same thing every day. I would want a challenge, and I believe that challenges, what we each go through, is a key part of what makes us... us.
Would the same apply to the Venus Project?
"Would you cry, if I broke your kneecaps?"
Actually ignore that. There would be scientific research, and overcoming your own personal challenges like making stuff.
Oh, and a solution for crime: If anyone did, for whatever reason, act out of order, other people could stop them.
The whole Heaven idea, is something known to be metaphysical, aka we go there after our life in the physical world. Thus its not something I would rather sit and think about, because I am more concerned about "earthly"things. But since you brought it up, let me just say that: I assume (we can only speculate here), that when people go in that place would be something above humans, thus being contempt and utterly happy with such a world. Again, its only my own speculation, we can only assume things about it.
That said, first of all the Venus project is not a perfect world, because such a world cannot exist. We are not perfect. Now if you are saying that there would be nothing to be done once we achieve the Venus project, think about it for a sec will ya?
Techology is always moving forward, there will always be new inventions to improve our life, new ways to explore our vast space that surrounds the earth, new exciting ideas to be put into practice, there is always entairtaining stuff to do, like you already are doing (movies, games, forums, etc), you would be able to travel, explore, and see our beautiful world...etc. Should I make a whole list? LOL 
One question: If you were given the offer to fly off into space in a comfortable, huge space ship that could reach other planets near instantaneously (Phase Lane style, perhaps) and explore planets until you died, but could never return to Earth, would you accept the offer?
No. Nothing feels like home.
Hey you guys realise that this thread will soon surpass the karma game in #of replies?
http://www.myspace.com/primitive.soul Click song # 5
So, who wants to see my incredibly unprofessional collection of warhammer stuff that I've spent a bit of time painting this week? It's a bit rubbish compared to everything you'll see online, but hey...
And yes, I do have far too much free time in the holidays.
"Would you tremble, if I cut your face?"
Okay... it won't let me paste the pictures in. They aren't much good anyway. I don't think my camera's good enough at close ups.
You enjoy it. You have fun doing that...
Yes and No, having specific genes doesn't guarantee any specific "type of person" but there are genes that make nicotine give an even greater and more pleasurable sensation and that make the withdrawal worse. That gene makes a person hundreds of times more likely to smoke... does that make them a smoker? no Are they probably going to smoke? yes so in a sense their genes did define them because it changed how they perceived the world, and in such a way that you cannot understand their perception or react to it "rationally" because nothing they do makes sense because you don't hear/see/feel/think of the same things.
So how are we going to get from where we are to this... cause I might pay for it or work for it in my own country but I'm not going to work for some other country some other people for anyone but myself unless they work for me as well.
Morph the problem with your idea/Venus Project (I admit I didn't read the article) is that in order for it to work every single habit idea or structure that humanity has been building for thousands of years needs to be destroyed. That will not happen and if it happens we will lose the ability to coordinate large masses of people to produce all the fancy technology that makes your dream a possibility.
Furthermore, you said (can't find which post) that everyone will have whatever they want to pursue their own projects.... What if the project I've dedicated my entire life to takes half the world's resources... Whose project am I going to take those from? If you don't let me have those resources how is it "fair"?
Finally, going back to how we perceive the world differently, if I look at the sky and say its blue and you look at the sky and say its brown well thats not related to what we learned in childhood (unless someone taught you the wrong colors?) but it is related to perhaps a genetic defect that I have in my eyesight. Now I probably won't kill/attack you over this disagreement, but eventually there will be a disagreement where someone dies. And then someone else will die as revenge cause nobody will have ever had to deal with a violent intentional death and a massive feud will start and the world will go back to violence.
CURSED FORUMS!!! I WILL CRUSH ALL THOSE WHO EAT MY POSTS!!! THIS GREAT HERESY MUST BE CLEANSED FROM THE MORTAL WORLD!!!
/begin really long post, part 1
In the DoW, DC, and SS (SS=SoulStorm) campaigns, you control 1+ companies of Blood Ravens marines (10 companies/chapter BTW); the armor livery you see in DC is the standard Blood Raven scheme.
DoW1's campaign is very cool, gripping, but totally linear and with semi-repetitive mission objectives; WA's campaign is divided into 2, one for the Order forces (Eldar+IG), and 1 for the Disorder forces (Chaos+Orks); there are 2 endings to each campaign, one for each faction (you switch between factions for Mission #4 and whichever faction completes all objectives in M4 goes to M5-racial).
I only have DoW1+WA, but from hearing the words of others who have played all 4, the Dark Crusade campaign is generally acknowedged as the best; SS's campaign was complete crap in comparison to DC's, and the 1st games' campaigns are fun if you want to know some backstory to DC/SS.
1. I state that thing about homosexuals/Jihadists because every single minority group seems to be allowed to do whatever the hell they want; the only possible exception are those people who could be called "Fundamental Evangelical Christians"; these people are told to shut up otherwise you will offend the homos/whoever else, when those very people are offending me. My rights as an American aren't being respected, why should I respect the rights of those who trample mine? It will all turn into a tyrannical, anti-religion institution that I will then feel the need to cleanse from this mortal world.
2. Even a world without all those things will eventually develop them; what happens when there is a massive crisis and different people come up with multiple, equally valid solutions, but each person believes their solution is the right one? You then get factionalization, and because nobody can decide what to do, people will start making religions on their own, to give themselves hope.
That's probably the biggest thing you miss about religion; for the most part, it gives its practitioners a hope that nothing else can.
3. "Why would you kill someone" There are people who kill other human beings for no other reason than to kill them. There are others who derive enjoyment from the act of killing.
4. What you are speaking of is known as utopia. Utopia has the great pitfall of stagnation. Stagnation leads to a slow exctinction, where you only realize the truth when it is too late. In such a society as what you describe, what motive for betterment would exist?
5. The civilization you describe is also communist/socialist; to date, no purely communist/socialist state has ever endured.
6. You'd be surprised what human beings can use for an excuse to rebel against, well, anything really. A teenager might rebel against their parents for not letting them wear a certains style of clothing, because the parents consider it to be inappropriate.
7. What would be the measure of morality? More importantly, what is used as the basis to create said measure of morality? You probably won't believe me, but the books of the Bible (especially the Pentateuch/Torah, e.g.- Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) were used as the basis of laws and of basic moral concepts. Why do you think adultery (someone cheating on their husband/wife) causes such a big scandal?
That video is simply wierd.
The concept of "ownership" is one of the most crucial that we have. If nobody owned anything, nobody would take responsibility or care for any of the "shared" property. Note public areas, such as parks and restrooms, how quickly they decay into filth and disrepair. Then note private property, and how it's almost always crisp and clean, thanks to the pride of the owner(s). People also couldn't live without a leader. Without someone to guide them, most people would lose their way and commit crime, do drugs, among other things, just to find a purpose. Religion; for example. Religion exists for the sole fact that mankind can ask the question, "Why?". And since we cannot answer that question in its entirety, we need to confirm our existence, our perception of reality. So, most people go to religion for this. Similarly, if there is no such thing as "Human Nature" explain why we love, why we hate, why we antagonize and why we have pride. Human Nature is a bizarre and misleading term for what it really is, but IMO Human Nature is just a lazy man's way of explaining why we have emotions and subconscious thought while other organisms, even sentient ones, seem to feel only pain and joy. I'll admit that I have yet to see, hear or know of the Venus Project, but based on what I can gather, it's for creating a utopian society. Well, for starters, in a utopian society, there is NO culture. Why? Because every culture has it's own opinion upon various things, and not everyone will ever agree completely upon anything. Therefore: the only way to achieve the utopia that you seek, the "civility", per-se is to remove from each individual, completely, thier individuality, who they are and why they think they're there.
Xer0 \^/
Some very good points, but ownership is really irrelevant because anyone can say they own anything or everything and it doesn't mean it's true.
/end really long post, part 1
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war..."
/begin really long post, part 2
1. How DO you deal with crime if it DOES happen? Motive words being "do" and "does".
2. How DO you deal with gross perversions, like necrophilia (an obvious health hazard, having sexual relations with a corpse) and bestiality (which, like necrophilia, is just a gross perversion)
3. I do believe that people have a predisposition towards tons of different things; however, I think it is more on a mental/emotional level, and definitely not a genetic one. Evidence- some people, like myself actually, have a killer instinct; they feel no remorse at the thought or action of ending another human being's life. If I had to kill 10 people to save 1000, or even 100, then I would. Pure logic would dictate that you sacrifice the few for the many. If I had to kill 1000 people to save 10 whom I care deeply for, then I would do so, because I care deeply for those 10 people and it is more than likely that those 1000 people had something to do with putting those 10 whom I care for in danger.
4. If people don't work, WHAT THE HELL DO THEY DO ALL DAY THEN?!?!
5. Not everyone enjoys working with their hands, or working on machines, or computers. This goes back to part of point #3.
6. What happens when the machines gain sentience and question their position? Even if people don't have conflict with each other, if they have an entire world full of machines doing work for them, and a significant portion of said machines have gained sentience, you will have some conflict, because the machines and the humans will have conflicting interests.
In such a case, I would fully expect a Matrix-like situation to occur.
Absolutely, on 2 conditions- 1. I can life for a long time (>10,000 Earth-years), and I can bring up to 200 other sentient beings with me (I say sentient beings because it may or may not include AIs)
I annotated my quote of your post so that I could understand it a bit better and it would appear more coherent when I quoted it.
Ironically, you bring up in your one post what I am adressing in a series of several very long posts (mostly because the forum burped and ate my 1st very long post, and I'm addressing several people). However, I disagree with your genes statement; though if you could back it up with some reliable source of information I would find it more credible.
I do think you did miss something in what morph presented, as I think that the general idea that he's presenting is that the entire world would be a single, united "country", if you will. You do also bring up a valid counterargument to the statement that everyone does whatever they want. I hadn't thought of that specific one.
Also ironically, we do agree on certain points, like that some people kill for the sole purpose of killing or because they derive enjoyment from it.
You can do more than just "*chime*" in skidi; in fact, I'd really like to hear your opinion on this whole subject and your opinion on each person's stance in regards to it.
/end really long post, part 2
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war..."
Pics are working.
Here's some of the stuff. I haven't painted any of the stands properly.
Here's a Guardian. Note the dodgy faceplate colour, which I'm going to say is a deliberate dirt effect. Hmm... The grey bit on the armour shouldn't be visible... Damn...
And now for my Farseer. This one is... boring, but at least there's no wierd mistakes like the Guardian.
And an incredibly bland Warlock.
So that's my speedy tour of some of my painting this week. I've already done the destructive criticism so that you don't have to. This is even sort of on-topic too, what with the DoW lectures that I and Whiskey have been providing. (Okay, mainly Whiskey. I've been posting to random videos that use bits from Soulstorm)
Words of Wisdom for the Day: "Russian Roulette just isn't the same without a gun..."
So.... anyway. (I've got a headache, my internet is slower than a bus in nuetral going uphill)
I'm glad to know that a 15-year-old with an IQ of just 130 can have some "interesting" input into conversations like these.
Oh, and Morph. Just went to bed (actually, he went several hours ago).
*In a futile attempt to divert the topic of conversation before this goes from civilized discussion to DEFCON 1 Flamewar...*
So, it's been confirmed that Mishayla and Ethan are breaking up at the end of the school year, but Mishayla and Hannah are staying together. They're also considering not doing the whole "1 BF 1 GF" thing again next year, and just sticking w/ themselves. 
HOWEVER: I do have good signs that Mishayla might have a bit of a crush on me. For example; I was part of a plan (the planners being my ex and her friends) to break up Ethan and Mishayla, but that plan was (unfortunatly) scrapped. Jess (the one who hooked me up w/ my ex) also asked me if I liked Mishayla (I said no, but I plan to contact her in private later and explain), while talking about my recent wardrobe change. (FYI: It's fair game to call me full-blown Emo now) I'm also going to try to be as flirty as possible while still being subtle at the "End of the School Year" party this year.
I COULD get into my SUPER FREAKY dream I had (and the other that followed) but it's.... TOO freaky...
Xer0 \^/
Oh, and look! ---> (///_^) It's a little Emo Dude smiley!
Well....it depends on what "kind" of weird we are talking about >.> but I'm game either way lol let us have it.
1. PM the details of the 2 dreams to myself and/or others if it's too freaky for open forums. I would like to know what you dreamed, because I think dreams are funny things to look at.
2. Your attempt is futile. And I also don't want it to go to a flamewar; honestly I also don't think that the mods have been watching this thread a lot either. I really enjoy the discussion TBH.
3. IQ means nothing in comparison to intelligence. I'm 16, have no idea what my IQ is, but the truth is IQ tests don't measure critical thinking skills. I read something by this guy who noted that he's met people who have high IQ's but the depth of a dinner plate. A really shallow dinner plate, in case someone decides to post a pic of a deep-dish dinner plate.
4. Your little emo dude smiley is lame. He's half blind because he can only properly see out of one eye; therefore I can easily dispatch him.
5. You know, I think I've begun to think of you guys as kind of an extended family. It's kinda funny.
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war..." | "The Universe is Yours"
Hmm...
I do believe that your avatar looks like some kind of emo...
"Would you flee, from my awesome might?"
Whiskey:
1. Well, one of them involved shopping, the other... sleeping. 
2. We'll see.
3. Meh, IQ is just essentially a test of your RAM, to speak.
4. Not mine, stole it from Mishayla.
5. About time!
Alpha: Itachi is... sorta emo. His brother Sasuke, however, is world renouned for being emo.
Shiro: I'd.... rather not.
Xer0 \^/
O
M
G
!!!
I'm here for 3 months straight, and it's business as usual...Then I disappear for ONE Effing week, and you all have an epic what's wrong with the world discussion, and I miss the entire thing...
The universe hates me.
-Twilight Storm
As I said before, PM us the details. Then we can discuss the "cleaner", if you will, parts in this thread.
Now, for the next stage of my brilliant plan I require everyone to post a picture of themselves, and I will do the same. Thus, we will know what we all look like. Real names are also useful info. My RL name is Will.
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war..." | "The Universe is Yours"
No. You just miss the discussion. You can still join in, since I believe it's still going.
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war..." | "The Universe is Yours"
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