Understanding The Fallen, Elemental, and Middle Earth

from JoeUser Forums

SionIf you’re a Lord of the Rings fan…or more specifically, a Tolkien fan, much of this is known to you.  However, if you do not know the true history of Middle Earth, some of this may be shocking.

The will of Illuvatar

In Middle Earth, there are only two natural sentient races in the world. Men and Elves.

Everyone else, EVERYONE else, is unnatural.

In Elemental, those unnatural races are called The Fallen.  In Middle Earth, they are given different names: Dwarves, Orcs, dragons, and yes, even our beloved hobbits.

Of all sentient creatures, the first made were dwarves. But they were not sentient first. It’s a long story but dwarves were made by one of the Valar (similar in scope to a Mithrilar in our universe).

The elves were the first “natural” sentient race brought into the world. And much of the sorrow that later came to the world of Middle Earth was because of the uncertainty about when and where the second natural race would come from – men.

One of the Valar, called Morgoth, took natural creatures of the world (including elves) and using his arts created (or bred) orcs and dragons and other unspeakable things. Even some lesser Maiar (Gandalf, Sauron, and Saruman were Maiar – they’re equivalent in scope to Dred’nir and Elas’nir in our universe – see Twilight of the Arnor) got twisted by Morgoth – Balrogs.[more]

Mortal Men and Dragons

Now, in Elemental, there are two “natural” born races – Men and Dragons.  Of the two, only men create civilizations thus only 1 playable race in the game is naturally sentient.

But there are several unnatural races in the world which we have referred to as Fallen. They’re called “Fallen” because the history books are written by men and have a man-centric bias. And ironically, men tend to be selective in what they call Fallen but that’s for another time.

The Fallen races in the game players deal with include the Urxen and the Trogs.  Urxen breed quickly. There’s a lot of them. Trogs are far less common but far more lethal individually.

There are also the Sions but they’re not a race as much as, well, children of the sovereigns. The sovereigns are channelers but their children aren’t.  Channelers have a very long life (hundreds of years – they’re effectively immortal in our game but they’re not truly immortal). Their children have a normal life.

The 4th age of Middle Earth

Now, getting back to Tolkien’s world, by the start of the 4th age, middle earth only had one natural sentient race – men.  The elves were gone. And while orcs still festered here and there, they were on the decline as well. The halflings (hobbits) were confined to a small area of middle earth.

Obviously, Elemental takes place in a totally different universe. But hopefully this helps players understand where some of the terminology comes from and how it is relatable.

95,635 views 40 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

So effectively there are more than two races but only 2 species?

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Thanks very much. More, please.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting MatBerryman2, reply 1
So effectively there are more than two races but only 2 species?

 

 

Right. If you've taken biology, different species can't reproduce (well can't produce offspring that can reproduce)

 

Thus the only things you shouldn't be able to mate with are dragons. Everything else should be fair game

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting MatBerryman2, reply 1
So effectively there are more than two races but only 2 species?

 

 

Only two natural sentient species: humans and dragons. There are other sentient species, but they're all artificially created. I'm guessing they're either humans and dragons modified beyond recognition (The Fallen), or other animal species uplifted to sentience through magical means.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Will be Froggits in the game? So we can have Frogo and Ham trying to destroy The One Pin created by Souron, ex-servant of Moregoth, encouraged by the mage Grandalf?^_^ Oh wait, wrong game?

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Jalicos, reply 4
... Only two natural sentient species: humans and dragons. There are other sentient species, but they're all artificially created. I'm guessing they're either humans and dragons modified beyond recognition (The Fallen), or other animal species uplifted to sentience through magical means.

Brad's really good at leaving big, interesting holes in a description. One way to read the OP is that Fallen=civilized, which would mean there's no such thing as Fallen dragon-types. But maybe the "players deal with" clause simply means that one subset of Fallen also build civilizations, but others do not, whether or not those uncivilized sentient beings 'fell' from being humans or dragons.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 5
Will be Froggits in the game? So we can have Frogo and Ham trying to destroy The One Pin created by Souron, ex-servant of Moregoth, encouraged by the mage Grandalf? Oh wait, wrong game?

You make me wish I was a modder. Anyone who builds a decent Bored of the Rings mod would be a real hero to some of us...

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

The Fallen aren't a different species, they're simply not "natural".

Men (and dragons) are the two natural sentient species of Elemental.

The Titans, however, took those two species and created a host of different species as new races.  All of these new races and species are The Fallen.  

The Fallen aren't a race or a species. They're a classification of life forms that were MADE by the Titans by changing/corrupting Men and Dragons to suit their purposes.

 

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Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

In Elemental, those unnatural races are called The Fallen. In Middle Earth, they are given different names: Dwarves, Orcs, dragons, and yes, even our beloved hobbits.

Hobbits' orgins are, iirc, never fully explained, beyond the fact that they migrated over the mountains from the banks of the Great River. Whether they are "unnatural" or natural like the Men and Elves.

Now, getting back to Tolkien’s world, by the start of the 4th age, middle earth only had one natural sentient race – men. The elves were gone. And while orcs still festered here and there, they were on the decline as well. The halflings (hobbits) were confined to a small area of middle earth.

Not completely true. There were still Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age. They were leaving by that point, but they were still there. The kingdom in Mirkwood/Greenwood lasted well into the 4th Age.

Sorry. It's not really important, but I felt I would point your errors out anyway:P

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kyogre12, reply 9

In Elemental, those unnatural races are called The Fallen. In Middle Earth, they are given different names: Dwarves, Orcs, dragons, and yes, even our beloved hobbits.
Hobbits' orgins are, iirc, never fully explained, beyond the fact that they migrated over the mountains from the banks of the Great River. Whether they are "unnatural" or natural like the Men and Elves.


Now, getting back to Tolkien’s world, by the start of the 4th age, middle earth only had one natural sentient race – men. The elves were gone. And while orcs still festered here and there, they were on the decline as well. The halflings (hobbits) were confined to a small area of middle earth.
Not completely true. There were still Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age. They were leaving by that point, but they were still there. The kingdom in Mirkwood/Greenwood lasted well into the 4th Age.

Sorry. It's not really important, but I felt I would point your errors out anyway

 

Mirkwood/Greenwood doesn't count, sir. Nobody likes the wooden kin.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

If I read this right, and discard some of the early blanket statements about kingdoms/empires from long long long long loooooooooooong ago, then does this mean that there could be "good" (i.e. life-using/not-raping-murdering-pillaging-and-torturing) Fallen factions?

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Circumstantial, reply 10



Quoting kyogre12,
reply 9

In Elemental, those unnatural races are called The Fallen. In Middle Earth, they are given different names: Dwarves, Orcs, dragons, and yes, even our beloved hobbits.
Hobbits' orgins are, iirc, never fully explained, beyond the fact that they migrated over the mountains from the banks of the Great River. Whether they are "unnatural" or natural like the Men and Elves.


Now, getting back to Tolkien’s world, by the start of the 4th age, middle earth only had one natural sentient race – men. The elves were gone. And while orcs still festered here and there, they were on the decline as well. The halflings (hobbits) were confined to a small area of middle earth.
Not completely true. There were still Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age. They were leaving by that point, but they were still there. The kingdom in Mirkwood/Greenwood lasted well into the 4th Age.

Sorry. It's not really important, but I felt I would point your errors out anyway


 

Mirkwood/Greenwood doesn't count, sir. Nobody likes the wooden kin.

Well if you're going to be all... um... forestist (what's racist against Wood Elves?) I will quote this from Appendix B at the end of The Return of the King:

"But after the passing of Galadriel in a few years Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to Imladris to dwell with the sons of Elrond. In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled, but in Lorien there lingered sadly only a few of its former people, and there was no longer light or song in Cara Galadhorn."

That's right, there were still High Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age:P

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

hanging/corrupting Men and Dragons

Yay, apparent confirmation of Fallen sorts of dragons!

If I read this right, and discard some of the early blanket statements about kingdoms/empires from long long long long loooooooooooong ago, then does this mean that there could be "good" (i.e. life-using/not-raping-murdering-pillaging-and-torturing) Fallen factions?

Don't tease; I've almost given up my pining for a Middle Way in the Elemental ethical framework, and I'm almost warmed up to the notion of responding to the Kingdoms/Empires thing pretty much like I do to the Forsaken/Chosen thing in Wheel of Time, whether or not the devs manage to build a mirror UI that includes history from a Fallen POV.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Death magic doesn't mean evil necessarily.  But it does alter ones view of the world (in the game).

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

The Fallen aren't a race or a species. They're a classification of life forms that were MADE by the Titans by changing/corrupting Men and Dragons to suit their purposes.

 

Go back to Lord of the Rings for a moment. Orcs on Middle Earth are in the purest sense elves, heavily corrupted and angry, but biologically you can still call them elves. Thinking of them as another race just makes it easier for the puropses of classification. And the same would apply to The Fallen right?

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Of The Fallen

When the powers strove for dominance before the cataclysm, some felt that men were too random and too unpredictable to be of use to them. Some of these powers selected men of cunning, brutality and might. They created an “improved” or “idealized” version of men that came to be known as the Fallen.

The Fallen are stronger, faster and more lethal in battle. They are quicker to make use of magic whenever available. The fallen are consistent, patient, and considered altogether evil.

The Fallen do not embrace change well nor do they appreciate new technology or the value of community. The strongest thrive and the weak are eradicated.

 

Time to rewrite some of the lore? :P

Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

Go back to Lord of the Rings for a moment. Orcs on Middle Earth are in the purest sense elves, heavily corrupted and angry, but biologically you can still call them elves. Thinking of them as another race just makes it easier for the puropses of classification. And the same would apply to The Fallen right?

Urxen and Trogs are biologically men in the same sense that Orcs are biologically Elves.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Death magic doesn't mean evil necessarily. But it does alter ones view of the world (in the game).
So....... that's a "yes"?........

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 8
They're a classification of life forms that were MADE by the Titans by changing/corrupting Men and Dragons to suit their purposes.

Only men and dragons?

Not bears, sparrows, monkeys, or other useful cretures?

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kyogre12, reply 12

Quoting Circumstantial, reply 10


Quoting kyogre12,
reply 9

In Elemental, those unnatural races are called The Fallen. In Middle Earth, they are given different names: Dwarves, Orcs, dragons, and yes, even our beloved hobbits.
Hobbits' orgins are, iirc, never fully explained, beyond the fact that they migrated over the mountains from the banks of the Great River. Whether they are "unnatural" or natural like the Men and Elves.


Now, getting back to Tolkien’s world, by the start of the 4th age, middle earth only had one natural sentient race – men. The elves were gone. And while orcs still festered here and there, they were on the decline as well. The halflings (hobbits) were confined to a small area of middle earth.
Not completely true. There were still Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age. They were leaving by that point, but they were still there. The kingdom in Mirkwood/Greenwood lasted well into the 4th Age.

Sorry. It's not really important, but I felt I would point your errors out anyway


 

Mirkwood/Greenwood doesn't count, sir. Nobody likes the wooden kin.

Well if you're going to be all... um... forestist (what's racist against Wood Elves?) I will quote this from Appendix B at the end of The Return of the King:

"But after the passing of Galadriel in a few years Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to Imladris to dwell with the sons of Elrond. In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled, but in Lorien there lingered sadly only a few of its former people, and there was no longer light or song in Cara Galadhorn."

That's right, there were still High Elves in Middle Earth during the 4th Age

A loser is me.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Only men and dragons?

Not bears, sparrows, monkeys, or other useful cretures?

In terms of sentient beings, yes.

But there are all kinds of Fallen creatures that are based on other natural creatures.  The umberdroth (in the book thread there's a picture) is a Fallen creature made by Lady Umber and bred in great numbers. They're based on natural creatures.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Any possible chance that late in the game with the strongest magic you could make your own slave beings like the Titans made the fallen? Also, any chance pink ponies will be in the game...from space or hidden?

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 17

Go back to Lord of the Rings for a moment. Orcs on Middle Earth are in the purest sense elves, heavily corrupted and angry, but biologically you can still call them elves. Thinking of them as another race just makes it easier for the puropses of classification. And the same would apply to The Fallen right?


Urxen and Trogs are biologically men in the same sense that Orcs are biologically Elves.

This pretty much confirms what I already thought. I had always pictured several crazy looking creatures that were nothing more than mutated humans analogues to mutants from the X-Men.

 

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Just what I wanted to know. Races that are too derivative (orcs, goblins, elves etc) are ten-a-penny and is rather staid in games these days. However without any of these races it would be too human-centric and boring, especially in a fantasy TBS. Good to see there's a bit of differentiation in the lore, though I'd prefer it to be more pronounced than in Dragon Age Origins, for example.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

This is definately a step in the right direction. If the Fallen are as different from humans as orcs are from elves they should satisfy our thirst for fantasy and variety. As long as they really play differently too. Keep up the good work on it!