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Elemental: The MUST HAVE 2010 TBS requirements

Elemental: The MUST HAVE 2010 TBS requirements

imageAs reported elsewhere, Elemental will not be released next month but is tentatively scheduled for 3rd quarter 2010. Those of you who have been reading these journals of course have known that since last Fall but we had neglected to change the update on the store page. :)

So that we can refer to this journal entry later, we are not committing to any particular date. “When it’s done” is basically our time schedule.  That doesn’t mean we’ll wait until every feature we can possibly imagine is stuffed in there before we release it but it does mean that we aren’t going to let an arbitrary date determine when it’s done either. This is our baby. It’s your baby. It’s something we’ve all been waiting for for a very long time and it won’t be rushed.

So what are the basic things we feel have to be nailed down? I.e. what are things that we absolutely essential? These are the things that would cause us to delay the game if we aren’t satisfied with them:

  1. A rich world. The world the player plays in feels almost as rich and interesting as a pre-made fantasy world in an RPG despite being randomly generated.
     
  2. A fun and interesting story-driven campaign. I love sand box mode but I want to make sure the game comes with a campaign that tells the story of Elemental.
     
  3. An incredible single player experience. This kind of goes with #1 but what we mean is that when playing the game, the player feels like they are the center of a great epic story.
     
  4. 32 player multiplayer. This is a big one and will take a lot of work but it we are requiring that the game handle up to 32 players playing together. To make this work, it also means that games need to be automatically saved (to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours) so that stopping and starting games later is easy.
     
  5. Fun tactical battles. The tactical battles have to be enjoyable enough such that a person might just want to play a tactical battle as a stand alone game but be flexible enough so that players can control how long they take (i.e. everything from instant resolve to epic tactical battles).
     
  6. Fun civilization building.  That means an economic system that is enjoyable to play by a wide range of player types which means a LOT of time to play test this once it’s mature to let us figure out what parts could be automated by users who don’t want to micro manage while letting other people micro manage if they want.
  7. Beautiful on the high end, playable on the low end. This means that on that latest greatest AMD/nVidia setup you’ll be able to see amazing things visually. But it also means that on low end systems (like Netbooks) a player could also play it in purely cloth map mode if they want.  The goal is to present different ways to play the game rather than crippling the high or low end experience.
     
  8. Modding. Built in editors to let people create their own factions, maps, conversations, items, and other goodies as well as make sure more technical people can go hog wild on it. While I’m not promising the next part for release, my goal is to be able to take Elemental and create a Temple of Apshai game(a totally different game type) using Python.
     
  9. Crazy magic battles. Rather than the late game being about mopping up, it’ll be about great powers doing insane things with magical spells. World changing things (think Populous).
     
  10. Unique factions. Early on I made the stupid mistake of saying there are only two races in Elemental. There are lots of different races but they only come from two canon sources: Natural beings (like Men) and unnatural beings (The Fallen).  The creature you see on this page would be a type of Fallen creature but is clearly not humanoid.  While we won’t have elves, orcs, unicorns or fairies in the game, we intend to let people easily create their own (i.e. if you want your Half-men race complete with its own body, tech tree, magic spells, ability to farm faster, etc. you can do this). I imagine eventually players will have hundreds of different “races” (species) to play against. 

That’s just 10 quick things right there. 

The best way to know how things are going is to keep an eye on what public beta is out there.  Use THIS POST to keep track. We won’t go to BETA 3 until we are happy with the game mechanics and general fun potential.

Note: This doesn’t mean all players will agree with us on what constitutes “fun”. I guarantee there will be posts that will point to this very entry claiming that we agreed to have “fun civ building” but we went back on that because “fun” to that person means mining ore, smelting it, sending it to a shop to be turned into a sword, having the sword shipped somewhere else stored in a warehouse and then equipped (hint: we don’t stockpile resources in Elemental).  So we aren’t trying to be all things to all people. But the above should give you an outline of some of the things we think are very important. 

If you think I left something out, post below and I’ll either answer YES. NO. Or some lame cryptic marketing answer.

251,448 views 82 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting MatBerryman2, reply 25
... Are there still plans for a 64 bit version?

See dev replies in this thread for some recent info on the 64-bit question. The short answer is, "Yes, but they might not work out."

Reply #27 Top

[Stupid double-posting forum burps...]

Reply #28 Top

Quoting MatBerryman2, reply 25
Nice looking doggie that!

 

Are there still plans for a 64 bit version?

 

Ohh, a question that I can answer, this is new.

Frogboy/Stardock (Same thing right) are negotiating with Intel for use of the 64bit version of Havok, unfortunately Intel wants "Tens of thousands" for it, so Frogboy is trying to get them to lower the price.

If you want to read it for yourself: https://forums.elementalgame.com/371341

 

EDIT: NOOOOO GW Swicord stole my thunder! Oh well.

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Reply #29 Top

Almost completely unrelated, can't you give an example of what you call "Populus"-like powers?

I remember the suggestion of "burning a hole in the map" from way back, like someone pressed a cigar against it, resulting in a big hole in the game world, with possible hilarity as the ocean pours into it in massive waterfalls.

I still think that's a good idea.

Reply #30 Top

An excellent list, nothing terribly important  "left out", although I would have mentioned unit building in your shoes, but points 5, 6, and 9 were, at least to me, if I may say so, either underspecific or suboptimally worded.

5. Tactical Battles. I think that you should make clear that you want to ensure that it is not the generation and visualization of tactical combat which is the priority, but a deep and rich combat system which will enable and/or require a player to think and make choices and gets her "hooked". The tactical battles will be exciting because the combat system is not a simple "more numbers is better" gig like in other successful TBS series, such as CivIV.

6. Civ Building is fun: You have left nothing out, and you have indicated that there might be debates about what concrete elements might be "fun" for individual players, but you should say something about overall thoughts on "funness". I propose a postulate, call it F: The precondition for FUN (that is: this is not an exhaustive description of everything which is fun, but, I claim, nothing which is fun *in a TBS setting* can avoid it) is a multitude of strategic choices; in other words, if there is only *one (feasible, competitively efficient) way* to do something, it is by definition a "no-brainer", and a strategy game full of no-brainers is no-fun. Make sure that there are as many ways of building your empire as possible, as many true choices as possible, to avoid no-brainers.

You should also mention here that you will want to be avoiding "mistakes" or pitfalls from the past. Such pitfalls include suboptimalities from your own products (research in GC2; unit building in GC2; planet building in GC2) as well as in other successful landmark games (e.g. cities in Civilization could only hold one of each type of building, e.g. one forge or one temple, and so each city came soon to resemble all other cities...). Make it clear that the player will have freedom to do what she wants (e.g. stuff a city full of temples if that's her desire) and still have feasible choices.

9. Magic Battles: It is not clear from your post how crazy magic battles will not be mopping up. It is not clear from that post how you plan to counter End Game Tedium, since having fun magic at your disposal will only counter that the first two or three games until the novelty wears off. Why is magic so much more exciting than the other stuff we will be doing the length of the early and mid-game? "Mopping up" takes place when my strategic advantage is unquestionable, yet I am unable to fulfill a victory condition for another X number of turns, where X represents a number of turns during which nothing challenging takes place. Why will crazy magic battles be challenging to a player if her strategic advantage is already secured?

 

 

 

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Luckmann, reply 29
Almost completely unrelated, can't you give an example of what you call "Populus"-like powers?

I remember the suggestion of "burning a hole in the map" from way back, like someone pressed a cigar against it, resulting in a big hole in the game world, with possible hilarity as the ocean pours into it in massive waterfalls.

I still think that's a good idea.

Earthquakes? Tsunamis? Stuff like that I guess. ;) [+ Don't forget that we can create new spells as well, so.... :)]

Reply #32 Top

I would like to see a powerful,emergent AI like in AI War ( i prefer single player games) and a really good sandbox mode.

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 31

Earthquakes? Tsunamis? Stuff like that I guess. [+ Don't forget that we can create new spells as well, so.... ]
But I want examples! EXAMPLES!  :P

Reply #34 Top

I'm not a fan of multiplayer so that's number 10+1 for me. That said it all sounds fabulous.

Reply #36 Top

I am concerned that the game is going to be too simple, it doesn't sound all that strategic.....

Compared to what?

If you found Civilization IV or Master of Magic strategic then you will likely find this strategic.

Reply #38 Top

Everything sounds good to me...

not that worried about multiplayer, either...

a super random map generator...I usually go through the campaign once but my meat-and-potatoes is in the sandbox (tastes gritty but it'll wash off!) so as long as I can be playing years from now I'll be happy. Although, as a side note, I do like all the options of lots of races, etc...but I can wait. Baby steps to the Beta 3 :grin:

Reply #39 Top

Um I thought Civ IV was wildly simplistic and ive never played master of magic

Then you will probably find Elemental wildly simplistic.

Reply #40 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 39

Um I thought Civ IV was wildly simplistic and ive never played master of magic
Then you will probably find Elemental wildly simplistic.

 

Its reasuring that the people that load up Europa Unirvisalis (whatever) 3 and imediatly say "Nice inteface!" arn't the same as me. Phew.

Reply #41 Top

@ Denryu

On #1 reply.

 

Try Widelands, its free. Its not "quite" civ like, but definately has the resource stockpile down.

 

Game sounds interesting, to say the least. Hadn't actually heard about it, so I will likely be spending some time reading about it now. I loved populus's system for "magic" so that is a plus already. Glad I accidently bumped into this section, typically I only read about Demigod when I come on here.

Reply #42 Top

 
32 player multiplayer. This is a big one and will take a lot of work but it we are requiring that the game handle up to 32 players playing together. To make this work, it also means that games need to be automatically saved (to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours) so that stopping and starting games later is easy. 
 

So I guess this answers my question about whether custom games are going to rely on outside servers to fuction properly since games are saved to Stardock servers, which is... unfortunate.

Reply #43 Top

Quoting Nesrie, reply 42

So I guess this answers my question about whether custom games are going to rely on outside servers to fuction properly since games are saved to Stardock servers, which is... unfortunate.

Already answered in the dev journal about multiplayer, you can host your own game on your own server https://forums.elementalgame.com/373543

Reply #44 Top

Quoting Ellestar, reply 43



Quoting Nesrie,
reply 42

So I guess this answers my question about whether custom games are going to rely on outside servers to fuction properly since games are saved to Stardock servers, which is... unfortunate.


Already answered in the dev journal about multiplayer, you can host your own game on your own server https://forums.elementalgame.com/373543

 

Well since you feel the need to PM and repeat yourself here. Let me repeat what I am looking at for you.

Quoting Nesrie, reply 42




(to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours)

Reply #45 Top

Very nice read Frogboy, really looking forward to seing how things advance during the beta :)

Reply #46 Top

Quoting Nesrie, reply 42

quoting post 
32 player multiplayer. This is a big one and will take a lot of work but it we are requiring that the game handle up to 32 players playing together. To make this work, it also means that games need to be automatically saved (to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours) so that stopping and starting games later is easy. 
 

So I guess this answers my question about whether custom games are going to rely on outside servers to fuction properly since games are saved to Stardock servers, which is... unfortunate.

*raises hand* 

I hate to admit my ignorance, but why is that unfortunate?  Does this up the difficulty in playing custom games in some way? 

 

Reply #47 Top

Quoting Martok, reply 46

I hate to admit my ignorance, but why is that unfortunate?  Does this up the difficulty in playing custom games in some way? 

Maybe related to the fact that even if it's a private game, the savegames can only be done in Stardock's servers (anti piracy thingy too?).

Reply #48 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 47

Quoting Martok, reply 46
I hate to admit my ignorance, but why is that unfortunate?  Does this up the difficulty in playing custom games in some way? 


Maybe related to the fact that even if it's a private game, the savegames can only be done in Stardock's servers (anti piracy thingy too?).

 

Have they confirmed that this is done when your playing LAN?

Reply #49 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 7

I foresee people complaining that they can onlyplay the good guy and that there is only one ending.

That's the only thing that worries me about scripted stories. Hopefully their story will be open ended or at least have a "good guy" ending and a "bad guy" ending while still telling the tale of the world of Elemental.

Reply #50 Top

Open ended, doubtful. Good guy ending and evil guy ending, doable and probably they already have that in mind (even if in the book there is only one option).