Explain Armor #'s to me

I am not very, ah, fluent, in armor #s, but this is what I do know-

A ship with a higher armor # will take less damage than a ship with a lower #. Effectively, each armor point is worth 5% of the hull for the 1st point, and some wierd formula that I cannot remember/do not know for each successive armor point.

In general- armor is a little like shield mitigation, only on JUST the hull (shield mitigation WILL extend to the hull for units that have shields). It is also a method of making ships tougher.

Am I making a mistake in using the Egg before the shields are depleted?  It's hard to tell.  That's what I want to know.

ima preety sure armor (as odd as it seems) protects the shields as well... but i am not 100% on that.

and its best to nano (egg?) things while the shields are still full... so you kill that annoying illum with full shields left. teehee.

anyway... every armor reduces damage 5% through a wierd formula that the game uses for many things...

heres some baselines...

2 armor reduces damage 10%... so it takes 91% of normal damage. (multiply .9111 times 1.10 to get 100%)

5 armor reduces damage 25%... so it takes 80% of normal damage (multiply .80 times 1.25 to get 100%)

10 armor reduces damage 50%... so it takes 66% of normal damage. (multiply .6666 times 1.5 to get 100%)

20 armor reduces damage 100%... so something would take 1/2 the damage it normally would.

30 armor (only a tricked out space turnip can get this) reduces damage 150%... so it takes 40% of what it normally would.

yes... that means a orkey... gets 60% damage reduction from shields and 60% damage reduction from armor... for a total of 24% damage actually taken... throw in a phasic trap (hanger bay) and you got something that will take a serious beating.

*grins at Pbhead* I wonder how much damage reduction a unit with 2000 armor would take? *grins maniacally*.

2000 armour would get mean you only take 0.0099 Percent damage
and incidentally, its pretty simple really. Though obviously this only a single part of the damage equation.

Percent Damage Received = 1/(1+0.05*X)

ah, ya thats it... i knew it was 1/ something*armor.... but it was late and i was lazy.

Err, the question now would be to calculate something.

Because each race would have a certain achievable limit in armor addition. Does it make sense to buy the last two armor upgrades as TEC? Whereas it seems so that the Advent armor techs at lvl 6 and 7 methinks still pay off very well because advent units have a very low armor anyways?

To be even more curious: How should one relate armor to the hull upgrades. I.e. which ones first and why?

Generally armor upgrades are considered superior to hull upgrades (to a point at least) because while hull upgrades always improve hull by a set amount, the damage reduction properties of armor make repair abilities more effective (because each hull point restored takes less damage). However, price, lab level, and the faction you're playing as should be just as important in deciding which techs to research.

I noticed on my carriers once something was making them have -3 armor but it was displaying it as a green bonus along with other positives like range bonuses and shared damage etc... No idea why -3 armor is a good thing

Yeah, if I get a -3 on my carrier I want in big bold letters:  "Run!  You have been egged!"

If I can hi-jack the thread for a minute.... does anyone know precisely the relationship between shield mitigation and armor? Conceptually I would assume armor has no effect when shields are up and shield mitigation does nothing onces they are down. or do they work collusively somehow?? thanks in advance.

Armor only affects hull damage, however, mitigation is always on.

do you have a formula for me? are we talking ((1/(1+(X*.05))*100)*(1-.5) <--assuming 50% shield mitigation?? or does shield mitigation has some stupid diminishing returns??

cuz youd only receive 1/3 damage with 10 armor at 50% shield mitigation...seems nuts.

so a lvl 8 marza with 4 armor upgrades has 11 armor, a max shield mitigation of (and im estimating here) 70...it would receive roughly 19% of all damage.... can anyone verify this?

I've heard two different messages whether armor affects shields or not.  That's important, because that affects when to Egg nano somebody.   Guess I'll need to experiment myself if no one else has it.

I dont have my second computer to fuddel around with atm... but heres a simple test.

2 tec players... both build one kodiak.

one researchs all the4 armor upgrades.

put the two kodiacks in the same grav well.

time how long it takes for the shields to go down.

if they go down at the same rate... armor does not effect shields...

if the one with the armor bonuses takes longer from the shields to be depleted, then armor does effect shields.

Now... if the armor bonus does go int oeffect for the shields.. you might end up with the kodiak with the armor ending up with only 15% mitigation... and hence taking more damage... which would be hilarious... I dont know if that would happen... solution: 2 kodiaks vs 2 kodiacks... see how long it takes for the Focused fired ones shields to go down.

the question isnt really whether armor effects shields, but if shield mitigation works with armor once the shields are down. if it did, tec would basically have some of the beefiest ships on the block. essentially onces your armor mitigation gets higher than the shield mitigation cap, your ships would actually take less damage once the shields are down, significantly less.

a better test would be to have 2 of the exact ship fight, one with shields and one without. but with shield regen and mitigation fluctuatiing it would be a friggin pain in the neck to get some decent results. I'd need to make a spread sheet and there would be 3 variables to account for: shield regen, health regen, and shield mitigation.

well I have christmas break coming up so maybe I'll come back with an answer.

They both matter.  The original question is how armor affects damage.   That in turn begs the question, "is the answer different depending on whether the damage is going to hull or shields?"

The Kodiak test makes a lot of sense to test whether armor affects shields.  To test shield mitigation, a good test I imagine would be to throw a torpedo boat at a starbase w/ full hull upgrades.  Slow rate of fire, and the law of averages weighs in your favor, because it's got a lot of hit points.  It slows the change in shield mitigation.  Besides, to change the armor all you have to do is upgrade/not upgrade the starbase.

just to let you know, shield mitigation is straight across, no fancy equations

therefore 15% shield mitigation removes 15% damage and 100% makes shields invulnerable (found this out when modding the Advent for Distant Stars, took on a fully upgraded starbase with only one ship, no lose of shields or hitpoints)

quick note, certian weapons (mainly Phase Missiles) and abilities will ignore shield mitigation and then armor is used

that would be the equation for Damage Taken onces the shields are down, if shield mitigation effects hull damage.

nope, shield mitigation just removes X% of damage, you use the that number for damage applied to hull/armor

whoops, your correct. soo (D*(1-SM))*(1-(1/(1+A*.05)))

D = damage

SM = Shield Mitigation

A = armor

and is damage type factored before shield mitigation and armor? I know it has no effect on the actual amount of damage, but it would effect shield mitigation growth or decay.

if so an LRM(11 damage at 75% to cap armor) is doing .88 damage per shot to a lvl 8 marza (assuming 11 armor and 70% shield mitigation)

this is cracking me up

This is why lategame caps are extremely hard to destroy unless you got a 100 bombers/100 heavy cruisers. You definitely need the right weapon type against these heavy-hitters.

try a late game Distant Stars Capital ship

the Kol reaches 75% shield mitigation with 21 armour

the Radainces reaches 94% shield mitigation, cant recall the armor, 17 I think

I once watched a 100 bombers take 10 minutes to take down a lvl 10 Kol, it ripped apart several caps and a good portion of the fleet before going down.

It was epic

I luv Distant Stars You can do "Go Big or Go home" without having a bad conscience once.

Had a lvl 10 tech maxed Kol as well. You would not believe the crazy damage unless you play the mod. And a cap ship that as much more hp than a fully upgraded Advent SB in Entrenchment, eh?

Yeah, if armor reductions from eggs were cumulative, and say a ship had -21 armor, then that means that every 1 dps REPAIRS 20 HP... image a missile barrage against that (forget shields and mitigation)