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Don’t be afraid of the sausage factory

Don’t be afraid of the sausage factory

If you’ve been through Stardock betas, none of what I’m going to say is going to be news to you.

But for everyone else…

Most companies – the smart ones anyway – carefully control the message.  You won’t see early screenshots or quick sketches shown to the public of most games because internally, most games change dramatically during their development.

We game developers like to give the impression that we have the MASTER DESIGN from the start.

We know what we’re doing.

From the start.

Right?

No.

Many well known games that seem genius today actually started out very different. But gamers don’t know that.

But I’m not a game designer. Not really.

I’m a gamer who happens to make games.  That’s how most of us at Stardock feel. We are GAMERS first.

Our games are not a work of art or a craft or even a job.

They’re games designed to be fun and we’ll do whatever we have to do to make sure they’re fun.

With Elemental, we have an unprecedented budget (for us) to work with.

  • We did Galactic Civilizations II with 3 programmers and 2 artists in 18 months.
  • We did The Political Machine 2008 with 1 artist, 2 developers in 6 months.
  • With Elemental, we have 8 developers and 7 artists.

Still small but it’s really not but we can do a lot with relatively few people.

And for those who are interested in seeing how the game industry those reading these journals can see the iterative process of how things are done – including when we change our minds on things.

It also means we’ll be very open about what games we like and get influences from. 

Inspiration

Here are some great games we play and can look at for ideas for instance:

Let’s see if you guys can guess all these games from their screenshots:

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The Soul of a game

One of our major goals for Elemental is to ensure the game has a soul. What I mean by this is that we don’t want everything abstracted to the point where the player doesn’t feel like they’re IN the game. That’s one of the reasons why we’re not having Orcs and Elves in the game. If someone else wants to make those fantasy races, that’s fine.  But we want Elemental to have a very definitive game world that it is in that brings the player into the game’s world. Then, later, if they want, they can add in their own orcs and elves and what not into the game. 

But we don’t want to just have a bunch of different factions and races that are simply generic and just different stats.  That was a problem in Galactic Civilizations that I don’t think was really solved until Twilight of the Arnor which finally gave each race its own unique technology tree.

In Elemental, I just think there’s so much more possible because we have the luxury of making a game with you guys instead of simply foisting a game on the public.  There’s just too much of an opportunity here to make something that’s new but brings forward some of the best elements from games we all have played and loved.

120,527 views 63 replies
Reply #51 Top

I agree that in the long run, Stardock should go with what they feel good about.

Reply #52 Top

Quoting red1939, reply 45

X-Com:

Hard, very interesting, random generated, meaningful tactical battles

Difficult management of budget (there were a few exploits how to obtain tons of $$$, but we forget about them)
Interesting & meaningful techs
Awesome feeling of controlling the whole world defense against aliens (from the Geo-view) - sending ships, building bases, patrolling the skies, looking for alien bases
Difficult, demanding & deep game with perfect blend of gameplay elements, where everything was important, and nothing felt out of place.

I agree with what you say but I wanted to add a few more bullet points that in my mind are a huge key to why x-com remains one of my all time favorite games.

1. Turn based combat with out of turn reaction shots.

2. Fog of war and variable vision ranges (the aliens could see -much- better than you at night)

3. Semi-deformable terrain and terrain that could cause direct battle affects (fire, smoke, falling)

I was planning on making a detailed thread about this stuff when the tactical portion of the beta shows up. I think that some of this will work well in the base elemental game but I am very hopeful that the modding support will allow for a custom mod that can fully capture the full feeling. Elemental: Enemy Unknown! =)

I am very glad though that x-com is constantly brought up as an inspiration. With the demo of the volcano and deformable terrain I saw at PAX I am drooling at the possibilities!

And I am also very much looking forward to seeing what can be done with the hero/quest/dungeon system when taking Fall From Heaven as an inspiration. I hope someone at Stardock is trying to bribe those modders to come over to Elemental =)

Reply #53 Top

Kudos for mentioning Dom3.

I think there's an awful lot of brilliant game design that went into Dom3 that is all too often overlooked because of it's graphics.

Reply #54 Top

Dominions 3 can be quite addicting :bebi: ... I only wish I could control units on the battlefield though. It also irked me that if a large unit starts to route, it. never. stops. I mean, even if suddenly it finds itself surrounded by friendly units, far away from the enemy ... all the soldiers just keep running. Thats not, in my mind, how morale should work. If you flee far enough away from the enemy, and didn't go TOO far into the negative (of morale), and have decent numbers (higher than two) its quite possible that the unit could stop routing ... at least for a time. Now, an "unrouted" unit would probably have a lower max morale value (temporarily, or until its reinforced by more soldier ... normally more soldiers = higher morale, if nothing other than a cumultative "covering my flank" bonus, as well as being less likely to be in an "outnumbered" situation. However, if such a unit is in a scary situtation (like being outnumbered) said un-routed unit will be more likely to route than at the beginning of the battle, if for no other reason than they have less numbers.

So morale could work as our numbers vs your numbers, and our toughness vs your toughness, as well as training/discipline/elite or whatnot increases your base morale. All this of course, effective by how "far away" the enemy is, like it doesn't really take its toll until said enemy is 10-20 feet in front of us. And of course being flanked, or pincered, or attacked from behind, or surrounded ... those all take their toll in giving a certain % advantage to their "numbers n toughness score" and detracting from those surronded's "numbers n toughness score". I expect certain types of units will be (as an ability) immune to negative morale effects from enemy numbers. Wether by rare equipment, certain level of training, or only heroes and family members, would be nice. Also, for heroes and adventurers (and particularly brave family members), I think there should be a learnable or naturally gained trait which also grants immunity, not only from enemy numbers effect on morale, but also on enemy toughness' effect on morale. In that case, even surrounded by "behemoths of fury" will still keep fighting. Of course, anyone 100% surrounded will "fight to the death" perhaps at personal penalty ... if no other penalty than simply "being" surrounded (unless they take this trait). Of course, arch demon-lords that simply emanate an aura of fear, or some untold un-dead horror, will probably still have an effect on morale :D (unless hero is wearing amulet of Angelic Hope, or something)

Reply #55 Top

Routing elephants will certainly run all the way back and out of the battle no matter how many troops you have behind.

As for humans, I wish a winning side's routed soldiers remained in the province. On the battlefield, it's not important.

I like the fact that in Dominions you can't control things on the battlefield. You have to think ahead, and it simulates the fact that you can't really order stuff on a battlefield when you lack communication technology and most units are engaged and busy anyway.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 54
Dominions 3 can be quite addicting ... I only wish I could control units on the battlefield though.

 

You gotta be kidding. Mid/late game battles are huge. Thousands of creatures are involved in those battles. :)

Reply #57 Top

I never said battles weren't huge, I just said I want to be able to give on-field orders. (I like to be inside the mind of all my troops)

Reply #58 Top

Dominions 3 is a really fantastic game. I really hope that Brad takes some of the elements from it which I think are very well done (e.g. the damage system would be a good solution to the current debate). Also I think a lot of the people who are interested in Elemental would be likely to enjoy dom3 so I recommend looking into it. The forum at Shrapnel Games is very helpful (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=138).

Reply #59 Top

I'm a little surprised you guys don't claim Rome: Total War as an inspiration.  While it's not completely TBS, a lot of the strategic-level goals and ideals seem very similar.  Also, there was a thread earlier about how the combat should work, and while a lot of people mentioned morale and units fleeing, I don't think anyone mentioned the Total War series, which pioneered and continues to lead in that field.

Reply #60 Top

Ive mentioned Total War several times, as have others ... its just hidden in some of the larger threads im afraid. I think the "soul" of the game might end up having a much different direction than Rome, although its possible in the end you could draw parrallels.

If elemental has a great battle system AND has a great environment/backstory/empire builder .... it would simply be better in all categories-> automatic upgrade (until you felt like playing a game sans magic :p)

Reply #61 Top

Pic 1: Master of Magic

Pic 4: X-Com

Pic 6: Master of Orion

 

Played Master of Magic for 30min until it crashed.

X-Com I've seen pics of in this boards. Never played.

Master of Orion II I've seen played in this association I went to 10 years ago but never played it myself.

 

Age of Wonders not good enough for ya?? <_<

I  agree that the battles in AoW II was a bit slow though....

Reply #62 Top

Much truth in this post. 

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Sepiche, reply 53
Kudos for mentioning Dom3.

I think there's an awful lot of brilliant game design that went into Dom3 that is all too often overlooked because of it's graphics.

 

I thought it was for its interface. Atleast that was what made me uninstall the Dominions II demo 10min after starting it.

Lots of menus and....nothing else!   I went to their forum and saw this huge walkthrough on how you play it....first you do this, then this, then go to this stupid menu and do this....<--- And that is just:Epic fail