Demigod Forums
Which items do you think are the most useful and which ones do you think are basically worthless and what would you change about them?
Well IMO 2 of the best items are vlemish and nimoths they are both cheap and provide good bonuses. On the other hand plate visor isn't really that good, footmans sabatours are a bit on the weak side as well.
Well, as to your first question, the answer is all over the forums (see http://forums.demigodthegame.com/363369 for instance).
As to your second question, I wouldn't try tweaking item stats until they all get balanced. I would go for a different approach to the issue : cf. http://forums.demigodthegame.com/364454 .
I've actually put this together a long long time ago.
http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/portals.php?show=page&name=demigod-useless-items
I go through what is basically useless about them. Numbers need to be increased.
Well, there are far better and more experienced players out there than me, but I'll put in my 2 cents.
First, this thread has a lot of great ideas/suggestions for what items are under- and over-powered:
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/354365
I certainly agree with a lot of what's on that list.
Best items (in no particular order):
1. Banded Armor
2. Vlemish Faceguard
3. Unbreakable Boots
4. Narmoth's Ring
5. Mageslayer
6. Ashkandor
7. Potions/Scrolls/Locks
Worst items:
1. Plate Visor (give mana regeneration aura?)
2. Vinling Helmet (revise entirely: give +1000 mana & reduce cool-offs a small %)
3. Footman's Sabatons (reduce cost)
4. Ironwalkers (reduce cost)
5. Guantlets of Despair (love the idea of these - increase mana drain to 200 - which you guys are doing!)
P.S. I forgot Favor Items.
Best Favor Items:
1. Blood of the Fallen
2. Amulet of Teleportation
3. Blade of the Serpent
4. Swift Anklet
Worst Favor Items:
1. Bejeweled Goggles
2. Brilliant Bauble
3. Magical Coin Purse
4. Saam-el's Cloak
A thread discussing this very thing: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/363369 I know there's another too, but I haven't found it.
The Best:
Nimoth Chest Armor
Hauberk of Life
Groffling Warplate
Vlemish Faceguard
Plenor Battlecrown
Hungarling's Crown
Boots of Speed
Unbreakable Boots
Journeyman Treads
Slayer's Wraps
Wand of Speed
Orb of Defiance
Narmoth's Ring
Priest Idols
The Good:
Scalemail
Banded Armor
Scaled Helm
Wyrmskin Handguards
God Plate
Siege Idols
The Sometimes-Useful-or-I-don't-know:
Duelist's Cuirass
Platemail of the Crusader
Melee Idols
Gloves of Fell-Darkur
Forest Band
Twig of Life
Magnus Rod
Warpstone
The Why-buy-this?:
Armor of Vengeance (Reduce Price Point to 1250. It just can't compete with other items in the 1500-3000 range)
Plate Visor (Add +500 mana. Increase to 45% mana/s.)
Theurgist's Cap (Replace +10 Health/Sec with 1000 Mana. Up +35% mana/sec to 50%. Reduce cost to 1500 gold.)
Vinling Helmet (Increase to +2000 mana +100% mana/sec)
Footman's Sabots (Add +3 HP/sec, Add +3 mana/sec)
Assassin's Footguards (Can't compete with other items at same pricepoint. Reduce price to 1000 gold)
Ironwalkers (Reduce price to 3000. Change special effect to "Movement cannot be reduced past 5.5)
Desperate Boots (Reduce price to 2000 gold)
Gladiator's Gloves (Add +15 weapon damage)
Gauntlets of Despair (Changed in 1.19 to 200 mana drained. Increase to 25% chance.)
Doomspite Grips (Change to Add 10% chance to deal 3x crit damage)
Nature's Reckoning (Increase to 25% chance)
Bloodstone Ring (Reduce price to 750 gold)
Warlord's Punisher (Changed in 1.19 to reduce casting to 1.0 sec. Lose the arcing effect, increase damage to 500.)
Ring of the Ancients (Reduce cost to 1500.)
Parasite Egg (Up effect length to 45 seconds, casting time to 45 seconds.)
In general... Try grouping up the items in these price ranges: 0-1000, 1000-2000, 2000-4000, 4000+. Some items just stand out as not being comparable to others in the same tier. Example: Why would I buy a ring of the ancients when I can get slayer's wraps? Even if I'm just pure stacking +weapon damage, there are cheeper options.
Just some thoughts on some of the items I never buy.
-- Tukulis
I've decided to focus on the useful stuff. The things that I do not mention are not necessarily useless, but I personally would consider them less cost-effective and worthwhile than the items mentioned below.
Favor Items:
1. Swift Anklet: The 15% speed boost is good by itself, but combined with Boots of Speed or the speed abilities of certain demigods (e.g., Sedna and UB), it can be shockingly effective.
2. Blood of the Fallen: Enough said.
3. Staff of the Warmage: Good early-game boost to mana, plus a small damage bonus.
4. Amulet of Teleportation: A very viable choice. Frees up a consumable slot, and the cooldown time is not too bad.
5. Cape of Plentiful Mana: Combined with 1 or 2 of the better mana helms, this should satisfy most mana needs during the game.
6. Blade of the Serpent: I never use it, but it definitely appears useful.
7. Mard's Hammer: Good damage boost.
8. Cloak of Night: Can save your arse if you are being pursued by a faster opponent. Instant cast time FTW.
Equipment:
1. Scalemail: When you need armor, but can't afford the high-end stuff. Great for early and mid-game.
2. Banded Mail: When you need a health boost, but can't afford the high-end stuff. Again, great for early to mid-game; also has a tiny bit of health regeneration.
3. Nimoth Chest Armor: One of the best, most cost-effective armor sets in the game.
4. Hauberk of Life: My first preference amongst the medium-priced armor.
5. Groffling Warplate: Second only to Godplate.
6. Godplate: Very expensive and late-game, but, well, god-like. Provides very strong buffs for minions.
7. Boots of Speed: Best when combined with other speed items or abilities.
8. Unbreakable Boots: One of the real gems of the game. Affordable and provides very noticeable improvements to health and mana. They are actually a better pick than most mid-priced armor.
9. Gauntlets of Brutality: Should be a part of every damage-stackers wardrobe. Great for the cost.
10. Slayer's Wraps: Expensive, but probably the only other gauntlets worth buying for the price (besides GoB).
11. Vlemish Faceguard: Best early- to mid-game mana item, period. Puts to shame the pricier Theurgist's Cap, Vinling Helmet, and Hungarling's Crown.
12. Plenor Battlecrown: Best mana item for the money. Second to the Vlemish Faceguard only due to lesser mana regeneration.
13. Nature's Reckoning: I do not use this, but the mana boost and random lightning bolt seem worth the gold.
Consumables:
1. Capture Lock: Enough said.
2. Teleportation Scroll: Don't leave home without it.
3. Potions: All have their usages. I prefer the rejuvenation potions since they give both mana and health.
4. Sigil of Vitality: Probably the most effective of all health-related consumables, but seems to be the most underappreciated by the average player. (OMG!!! That UB had 9000 health! Ahh, no, he had 6000 health and just activated a sigil for a 50% boost.)
5. Universal Gadget: requires a little micromanagement, but can be very effective and versatile.
Artifacts:
Most of these items seem fine to me. My games rarely last long enough for anyone to get an artifact. but I have used the "lower-end" stuff without complaint (e.g., Heart of Life, Orb of Veiled Storms, Mage Slayer, and Cloak of Flames, etc.). My favorite is Ashkandor. I've never had the All Father's Ring, which looks like a game ender.
Conclusion: Brad, I would say take a hard look at the Favor Items, Helms, Gauntlets, and Boots. I would be surprised if more than 6 of the Favor Items are used by 90% of players. With the exception of the Vlemish and Plenor helms, the rest of the helms are overpriced and underpowered. Same for most gauntlets and boots.
Armor of Vengeance is actually pretty good. It virtually doubles your armor and hits the other guy for 35 every hit. Noticeable in 1v1s.
Theurgist's Cap is fine if you make use of the proc and minion bonus. The proc can mean the difference between winning and losing a 1 vs 1 fight. Your opponent runs out of health and mana sooner because you reduce their regen. Most players don't expect you to use the proc then wonder why they died when it should have been an even match up.
I've found that Parasite Egg's proc is fairly worthless because the range is to low and either you kill the other dg before any of their minions are killed by PE or their minions kill you before it works. Parasite Egg's real use is the +10% attack speed which is hard to get on activatable items. Granted for an extra 3k you can get Orb of the Veiled Storms.
My idea on helmets is that all of them should be made necessary to the team. Currently, you *have* to buy a Vlemish. On maps besides Leviathan, a helm like Plenor won't do much on its own since most Demigods' base MPS is pretty low. More helms need to be + MPS based rather than % MPS based. Also, all mana helms need to add base mana. Mana helms are worthless if they do not add base mana. Here are my suggestions:
Plate Visor: Add 600 mana. Remove +35% MPS. Add 5 MPS. Add a 5% mana cost reduction aura on all spells.
Plenor Battlecrown: Increase price to 2000. Reduce mana base to 1200. This item ruins the competitiveness of others.
Theurgist's Cap: Add 800 mana. Remove 35% MPS. Add +4 MPS and a +12 MPS Aura. Reduce price to 2500.
Vinling Helmet: Increase MPS to +100%. Increase base mana to 1400. Add an aura that reduces mana costs by 10%. Reduce its price to 2800.
Hungarling's Crown: Reduce its price to 5000. Make it add 2000 base mana.
Currently, everyone buys Vlemish. This makes its aura worthless, since identical auras do not stack. It is ineffective if everyone buys Vlemish or if everyone buys Thurgist's Cap. However, under my changes, if one person buys Vlemish and another person buys Theurgist's Cap, you've significantly increased your MPS due to the aura boost. This system rewards teamwork. Also, the auras would make cheap items like Plate Visor worth it well into midgame. If everyone buys a different helm, the synergy between the auras will give a coordinating team an advantage over a team that does not coordinate.
Also, Magnus Rod needs to be reduced in price to 2750. This item requires a fair amount of skill and costs a tad bit too much.
Good stuff.
Banded Helm, Vlemish Faceguard work on on on maps without MPS flag.
Plate Visor, Plenor Battlecrown work on on maps with a +15 MPS flag.
These 4 are ok.
The higher mana items are THE problem. A mana item needs to be really good, because it takes away a slot for health/damage.
Not in any order...
Best Items:
Worst Items:
This is actually a good item for Rook. The arrows trigger the lifesteal.
The plate visor is a poor item because its only niche is that it gives greater regen than the scaled helm on maps with +15 mps. However you've gotta realize no one is going to use only the plate visor, and on a map with +15 mps it only makes sense to get plenor as your second helm. The problem is that plenor modifies the mana regen on the scaled helm and doesn't work well with the plate visor.
Say we're using Sedna and we have control of a mana flag at level 7 and we've already bought plenor crown. If we have a scaled helm we're at 40.1 mana per second, and if we have a plate visor we're at 40.15 MPS. In that case the +525 mana (and the price)makes the scaled helm the obvious pick.
Even at level 1 it's problematic, because the a level 1 sedna with a plate visor and regen flag is going to have 23.98 MPS while a DG with the plate visor is going to have 21.77 MPS, 525 more mana, and 50 extra gold... It's going to take a very long time to make up 525 mana when you're only getting 2.21 more MPS. Other DGs have different amounts of mana regen but the differences are small enough to have no real impact on the numbers, other than TB and QoT whose natural regen bonuses are % base and therefore favor the scaled helm.
So as you can see the niche for the visor is very, very small and while it may outpace the scaled helm late in the game when the MPS DGs get from leveling naturally scales up, but validating the Plate Visor by categorizing it as a late game item would be silly.
My suggested improvement? Give it +400-700 mana.
Alot of ideas can be found in my balance for 1.2 thread (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/354365)
Best Items
Every solid build will use a good share of these items, because they are the best when it comes to cost/benefit. I wouldn't nerf any of these (except the mentioned), but instead make the other items better so they can compete with these items.
Usable Items:
Bad Items:
Every other item has some fundamental flaw, the most common ones are...
I noticed no one has mentioned Blood Soaked Wand. It shouldn't get overlooked.
It's actually a really good favor item. I think it's up there with BotF, BotS, Swift Anklet, and the other "viable" favors.
2s cast for in battle is crazy and +1000 is almost nothing in lategame. This item isn't worthwhile afaik.
Unnecessary. Plate Visor is fine on maps that have a MPS flag.
Both of these scenarios scale very well, and you can do this for 1500-2500g
most useful items:
most useless:
You only get these items until you have better stuff of course. Eventually you will always want either Plenor or Vlemish, that means one or two slots.
The low level items are cheap and they usually have the best cost/benefit ratio, other examples are Scalemail, Banded Armor, the same works there as well.
Filling your inventory with all the low stuff first, then replacing them with better items lets you have better stats then the enemy in the beginning which give you way more lane staying powers, and easily makes up for the additional 200-300g you lose be reselling these items later.
After that you can get Scalemail, or sell Plate Visor or get Plenor Battlecrow... it depends on the gold you got wenn you get back. But filling up the slots give you way more bonuses then having 1 good items only.
So in essence what you're saying is that you buy your starting items on a map like Leviathan which has both HPS and MPS or on Exile which has regen crystals in the field, and then you return to base to pick up a Plate Visor before you reach 1500g, then return a second time?
Honestly I think you're playing those high regen maps wrong if you're heading back to base that early with over 20 MPS and the enhanced combat healing. You can easily get 1500g before level 5 without any kills.
So really what this shows about the plate visor is that its niche is even narrower than just being good on maps with 15 MPS, it's actually only good on those maps if you return early and even then only briefly because you resell it shortly thereafter.
The item needs a buff. It is not fine, it's worse than Scaled Helm in almost every situation and it's rarely worth buying in conjunction with the scaled helm.
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