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Elemental: PAX Preview Part 2

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Elemental: PAX Preview Part 2

from JoeUser Forums

To say we were pleased with the reaction Elemental got at the Penny Arcade Expo would be an understatement.  Despite the game only being in alpha, users seemed to really like the direction we’re heading.

Some of the features that really got people going included:

Family Trees and Succession.  That is, one of the strategies for victory is to quietly arrange marriages so that your family is in the path of succession when sovereigns start getting killed.  In Galactic Civilizations, succession often seemed random (it wasn’t but it came across that way). So the Arceans would “surrender” to the Thalan even though you had been helping the Arceans.  In Elemental, if a sovereign surrenders (goes into exile) his kingdom might be divided up amongst heirs belonging to the various houses.

 

The planned number of players allowed in a game being 32. We only plan to have 12 “canon” factions just like in Galactic Civilizations.  But we also plan on letting people create their own (which we think will be typical).  If you’ve ever played Master of Magic or Master of Orion, you probably have an inkling of the kind of race customization we have in mind. 

 

The consequences of magic on strategy. Because of the engine, we plan on letting people alter the world a great deal. Later in the game, the arms race on magic will become increasingly apparent.

 

Modding. People at PAX were able to see the modding tools first hand. Hearing us talking about modding is one thing, seeing highly polished, functional modding tools built into the game long before the game is released lets people see just how serious we are about letting people create their own worlds and share their creations with others.

 

Now, all that said, the beta, which is due out in the next 2 weeks, is NOT going to be fun.  Let me reiterate that: IT WILL NOT BE FUN. IT WILL BE HORRIBLE. WE ARE TURNING OFF THE MAIN GRAPHICS ENGINE.

 

BELOW ARE THINGS YOU WILL NOT SEE IN BETA 1 OF ELEMENTAL:

 

Elemental_TileEditor_ZoomedHarbor
This is the built in modding tool. You take these, classify it, and then share it on the Internet within the game. Then, players can optionally have these mods inserted into their games.

Elemental_Spellcraft_Life

BETA 1 will not have the magic system in it. At least, not until November.

 

Elemental_1251919228

The graphics engine in Elemental will not be enabled until January.  Why? Because if the game is good it should be able to be fun without super good graphics.

 

138,331 views 74 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

Elemental t-shirt? It sounds interesting, however it depends on how much would cost the shipment  to Europe.

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

Let's be serious for a moment here, ok?

My pre-order of the game should include: Sovereign's Edition.

That edition should include: game, lenghty manual with information and stuff, some kind of artbook, OST, the campaign's Cloth Map, a figurine of the Sovereign, Brad's book, Elemental mousepad, download for Elemental Desktop theme, Elemental Wallpapers & Avatars & signatures, pics of the Elemental Team, some kind of jewlery for each Element (be them rings, pendants... earrings for me would be a no as I don't use any in any part of my body and don't plan to start now, but I understand some people might enjoy them too).

It might include some kind of clothing (t-shirt for example) and/or Elemental backpack. But this last part might be a bit overdoing it already.

Oh, the price of my pre-order should scale accordingly but that' fine. :)

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #53 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SavageBananaMan34, reply 49
I would totally buy an Elemental towel. 

Elemental TP? Or does that give the wrong impression? o_O

Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Ron, reply 7
Count me amongst the ./drool crowd.

And I thought all that wet stuff at your feet was something else.... :digichet:

 

Me too - me too brother.

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting popoto2, reply 50

If we can make gameplay suggestions and see that they are taken into account and included in the game, beta will be fun for sure, despite lacking magic or graphics... If we are in the beta only for reporting bugs, then, the beta won't be too fun

From what they've said, large chunks of the game aren't finalized or even fully implemented yet. They also talked about having beta go until next August. If it's going to run that long, there is no way it's just to find bugs.

They'll be looking for gameplay feedback as well.

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 52
Let's be serious for a moment here, ok?

My pre-order of the game should include: Sovereign's Edition.

That edition should include: game, lenghty manual with information and stuff, some kind of artbook, OST, the campaign's Cloth Map, a figurine of the Sovereign, Brad's book, Elemental mousepad, download for Elemental Desktop theme, Elemental Wallpapers & Avatars & signatures, pics of the Elemental Team, some kind of jewlery for each Element (be them rings, pendants... earrings for me would be a no as I don't use any in any part of my body and don't plan to start now, but I understand some people might enjoy them too).

It might include some kind of clothing (t-shirt for example) and/or Elemental backpack. But this last part might be a bit overdoing it already.

Oh, the price of my pre-order should scale accordingly but that' fine.

Heck yes! I would totally pay extra for that!:drool:

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 48
 


I see lots of fans growing more interest in Elemental...   perhaps Stardock should take a poll on how many would be interested in purchasing $7.oo  Elemental T-Shirts.  I suggest $7.oo(or less)  since it would help advertise the game.   I personally would be interested in Elemental towels. 

 

 

I'd love to decorate my living room and bedroom with Elemental wallpapers! :D

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top

I vote for pendants, artbook and OST at least. I'm iffy on the book as I don't know how tied together it and the game are.

 

:fox:

Reply #59 from Elemental Forums Top

Usually the OST is given out with the CE of most stardock games.  This game could certainly use an art book.  I know I'd buy one.  XD

Reply #60 from Elemental Forums Top

Thank you!

I would like to say 2 things.

1. I REALLY LIKE the new screenshot on the Media page which shows the cloth map and what appears to be sovereigns and other figures as avatars resembling figurines, complete with pedestal. I think that is an EXCELLENT solution to the cloth map, a perfect blend of abstraction and concreteness. Bravo. And it even looks good.

2. I am still skeptical about the Family Dynasties, for two reasons. Reason 1: Internal Logic. As we know, getting married, having children, and having these turn into adults, meet people, blend in with other families all takes time; lots of time. If we are talking about epic scale of generations, then we are talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of days which are represented in-game. On the other hand, there are troops to be trained, goods to be transported, and units to move about a map, itself representing certain units of measurement. If it takes, say, X turns to move most units across a medium-sized map, and perhaps X turns to train these units, and X turns to deliver goods from city A to city B, it would seem bizarre, to say the least, to father and raise children in this time; that would seem to require X*50 turns. But you also cannot seem to want most games to have upwards of 1000 turns and still be mid- or early game?  Reason 2: While I haven't seen the beta yet, of course, I am worried that the dynasty idea is wonderful on paper, but not in practice. I do not know if it will be "fun" to micromanage a system of heirs and their marriages. I want to roleplay a mage warlord and king/queen, not a marriage broker. But perhaps it will be fun, can we please learn more about it?

Reply #61 from Elemental Forums Top

I just can't wait to start fiddling with the game.

 

Give me bugs, I don't care, juste give me something to go and say: See! I helped made a classic! :)

 

I just hope that if they do put out a Collector's edition later on, we'll be able to upgrade our order.

Reply #62 from Elemental Forums Top

I want to roleplay a mage warlord and king/queen, not a marriage broker. But perhaps it will be fun, can we please learn more about it?

You are aware that one of the major tasks/goals of a monarch was to marry off their children and even extended family to politically advantageous circumstances, right? If we have to deal with marrying off children every turn, or even every 10 turns, it'll get old fast. But I suspect families won't grow that quickly, so arranging marriages should be one of those things you only have to deal with seldomly.

The internal time inconsistencies that might arise don't bother me. I accepted long ago that restricting yourself to realistic timeframes for every aspect of gameplay will result in a very dull game, at least in the 4X genre. I mean, training an elite soldier should take years, really (not to mention experience but ignore that for now). But that would be soo slow, and the game would suck, unless turns were actually on the scale of a year. But if turns are on the scale of a year, does my channeler really need a whole year to cast a fireball or two? That doesn't strike me as particularly impressive... The real world and its real time scales don't make for fun games; this is one of those areas where gameplay absolutely and completely trumps real world logic for me. Taking it to extremes is no good (someone giving birth to a kid every turn, when it takes 1 turn for my soldier to move a few tiles, would totally ruin the atmosphere), but moderately unrealistically fast or slow time scales is fine with me.

Reply #63 from Elemental Forums Top

So, we've heard what won't be in the first beta, what will be?

I'm guessing this is a chance for us to grind through the economic engine and the diplomacy engine.  Is that correct?

edit: For the economic engine to work, there also (at least in theory) must exist a technology research tree, so that units can be improved.  That would also imply that the unit building portion of the build exists.  Hmm.  I guess we'll know soon enough.

Reply #64 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting onomastikon, reply 60

2. I am still skeptical about the Family Dynasties, for two reasons. Reason 1: Internal Logic. As we know, getting married, having children, and having these turn into adults, meet people, blend in with other families all takes time; lots of time. If we are talking about epic scale of generations, then we are talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of days which are represented in-game. On the other hand, there are troops to be trained, goods to be transported, and units to move about a map, itself representing certain units of measurement. If it takes, say, X turns to move most units across a medium-sized map, and perhaps X turns to train these units, and X turns to deliver goods from city A to city B, it would seem bizarre, to say the least, to father and raise children in this time; that would seem to require X*50 turns. But you also cannot seem to want most games to have upwards of 1000 turns and still be mid- or early game?  Reason 2: While I haven't seen the beta yet, of course, I am worried that the dynasty idea is wonderful on paper, but not in practice. I do not know if it will be "fun" to micromanage a system of heirs and their marriages. I want to roleplay a mage warlord and king/queen, not a marriage broker. But perhaps it will be fun, can we please learn more about it?

You might check out one of the Total War series. They all have a dynasty system and it's actually quite fun. You end up developing favorites and wishing for them to do well, and its quite heartbreaking when a promising youngster dies in battle. Over the course of the 300 or so year game, you would have about 5 or 6 generations, and it was not overwhelming.

Reply #65 from Elemental Forums Top

Remember, you don't have to marry people off either, you can (hopefully) just give your son a city and make him a vassal (Hopefully with more loyalty) and let him choose who to marry, w/e.  Or maybe make them heroes by giving each of them some magic.

Reply #66 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SnallTrippin, reply 65
Remember, you don't have to marry people off either, you can (hopefully) just give your son a city and make him a vassal (Hopefully with more loyalty) and let him choose who to marry, w/e.  Or maybe make them heroes by giving each of them some magic.

 

Look at history... having daughters or sons as vassals was not helpful in ensuring loyalty, quite the opposite at times. Power corrupts, total ect... :D

Reply #67 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CustodianV131, reply 66



Quoting SnallTrippin,
reply 65
Remember, you don't have to marry people off either, you can (hopefully) just give your son a city and make him a vassal (Hopefully with more loyalty) and let him choose who to marry, w/e.  Or maybe make them heroes by giving each of them some magic.


 

Look at history... having daughters or sons as vassals was not helpful in ensuring loyalty, quite the opposite at times. Power corrupts, total ect...

Sure, but that's only because the percentages are so good to find that in history..because EVERYONE gave their kids/relatives positions (Or they were already entrenched) - but I'd hazzard to say that there were more loyal familiy members than disloyal, by far, throughout history.

Reply #68 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SnallTrippin, reply 65
Remember, you don't have to marry people off either, you can (hopefully) just give your son a city and make him a vassal (Hopefully with more loyalty) and let him choose who to marry, w/e.

Maybe he would marry a rival's daughter, and fall under his/her influence, thus eroding his loyalty.

Reply #69 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CustodianV131, reply 66

Look at history... having daughters or sons as vassals was not helpful in ensuring loyalty, quite the opposite at times. Power corrupts, total ect...

Historical noble born children were at decidedly less risk of mom/dad dropping a volcano on their rebellious hometown though. }:)   

(Relatives would only be channellers if you specifically give them magic ability, I think? Something for only the ones with high loyalty, certainly) 

Reply #70 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Ron, reply 29

Sounds pretty bare bones. What exactly will we be testing for in betas 1a and 1b?
Engine.  Does it crash?  Does it run well?  Can it survive alt-tabbing?  Etc etc.

Will it blend?

Reply #71 from Elemental Forums Top

Relatives would only be channellers if you specifically give them magic ability, I think?
I guess it is not yet decided. However I think it shall be possible, that some of them may become channelers too. It shan't be automatic, but possible. It may especially be useful in cases, if they become disloyal to you. It may also be a reason why the turn on you (I am better channeler than you, my father, and I save/conquer the world better).

Reply #72 from Elemental Forums Top

I loved the presentation!  I was currious about Elemental before I went to the PAX Presentation - but after it I'm PASSIONATE about it!  Good job on stoking the flames of enthusiasm.  I really think this is going to be one of those games a person could really just sink his chops into for a long long time.

 

thanks for putting the demo together, it was Fantastic!  (Saturday afternoon is the one I Saw.)

 

zWolf -out.

Reply #73 from Elemental Forums Top

I knew I saw that building designer pic somewhere. Very nice.

Reply #74 from Elemental Forums Top

family succession is way out there, and the customization is a real must. With it you can rplay and replay without end and always have someting new. When you add modding the the game it  becomes almost infinite in possibilities.

Incredible!!